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What Would You Give Up For Jordan Staal?

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Old
06-05-2011, 04:12 PM
  #76
Celtic Note
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Oshie's had too many issues with that ankle, and Staal's been too much of an iron man outside of this season.

Oshie'd be a nice target for Pittsburgh, but not at the cost of Staal.
I am not sure trading Oshie for anyone else would make sense. Even trading him for Staal could come back to haunt the Blues.

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06-05-2011, 04:13 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Dabs21Nike View Post
Wow I didn't even see his post the first time I looked. I think most Buffalo fans would agree to that trade though. Not so sure about Pittsburgh.
I proposed a deal based on Stafford for Staal earlier in the year, but got shot down quickly by Pens fans who thought Staal was worth a lot more than Staff. Stafford+Pysyk/McNabb/Adam is probably the most I'd offer.

Based on that I don't think yours or Jame's is close.

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06-05-2011, 04:15 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Zundo View Post
Staal's salary worries me.

It seems like a fair proposal, but one that might not work out for both parties.
Why? Oshie's due a decent raise himself this summer.

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Old
06-05-2011, 04:15 PM
  #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zundo View Post
I am not sure trading Oshie for anyone else would make sense. Even trading him for Staal could come back to haunt the Blues.
Oshie's a player whose career could go any number of ways. As of right now though, he's more questions than answers.

Staal, conversely, is about as sure a bet as there is in the league, with upside to boot.

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06-05-2011, 04:17 PM
  #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
?
Oshie will likely have a $2-2.5M, 2yr contract and put up similar points as Staal. Staal may put up more, but it would not be enough to make up the difference. STL is a mid-sized market and at the moment will have to remain at or near the cap floor in order to maintain a balanced budget. Unless we have a new owner that just wants to throw money at the team, we can't take on too much salary. Given that our needs are a back up goalie, 3rd line center and top pairing LHD, taking on more salary while filling a spot where we do not have a hole probably doesn't make sense.

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06-05-2011, 04:19 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
Why? Oshie's due a decent raise himself this summer.
The Blues are not handing out raises like many teams. Armstrong requires that the players show their worth, rather than take a gamble based on projections. The contracts given to Erik Johnson, David Perron and Patrik Berglund all point to Oshie getting a contract in the neighborhood of 2-2.5M for 2 years, which ensures Oshie will be a RFA one last time.

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06-05-2011, 04:21 PM
  #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
All of which is completely beside the point that when Filppula was Staal's age, he couldn't crack 20 points in a season. Believe it or not, an extra half a decade's time of development is not negligible, and Staal's prodigiousness shouldn't be held against him.

And again, as you conveniently omitted, Staal is about half a year older than Brendan Smith, who I'm certain you believe has a ways to grow. He's also a year-and-a-half younger than Helm and Abdelkader. The early-to-mid 20s are prime development years.
I didn't find the point about Smith relevant to the statements made. But sure, Smith will continue to grow, as will Staal, as will Filppula. Filppula at Staal's age also didn't get anywhere near the same opportunity-deep Wings teams made that unnecessary. I was also unimpressed when Staal got his cracks in at the top spot when Crosby and Malkin went down, same as I was Filppula when his role expanded. I don't know which one will put it all together, maybe even neither or both, but both have potential to get better and are at a similar development stage now.

And NHL games played is at least as good a barometer as physical age in this regard.


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Statistically. I wouldn't trade Staal for Flip during those runs in a million years.
I could care less which one I have. They both played essentially the same role, albeit with different tools. Both valuable, but mostly interchangeable with each other.

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Except one guy plays Selke-calibre defense and is nearly half a decade younger.
Remind me when Staal won his Selke again?
Both him and Flip are regarded as great defensive players.

Yes, you get a couple more seasons of Staal if both play to the exact same age and retire the exact same time, but the age gap is really not as relevant as you're making it out to be. Especially if you'd just say "around 4 years" instead of trying to get fancy.

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Old
06-05-2011, 04:29 PM
  #83
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Staal+resigned Kunitz for Backes?

I'd do most anything for a top 6 of...

Neal-Sid-TK
Tangradi-Malkin-Backes

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Old
06-05-2011, 04:38 PM
  #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zundo View Post
Oshie will likely have a $2-2.5M, 2yr contract and put up similar points as Staal. Staal may put up more, but it would not be enough to make up the difference. STL is a mid-sized market and at the moment will have to remain at or near the cap floor in order to maintain a balanced budget. Unless we have a new owner that just wants to throw money at the team, we can't take on too much salary. Given that our needs are a back up goalie, 3rd line center and top pairing LHD, taking on more salary while filling a spot where we do not have a hole probably doesn't make sense.
Then that's an issue with Oshie's contract, not Staal's.

Staal is a virtual lock to play the whole season, score ~50 points, and provide elite defense. That's worth 4 mil per on any roster.

As for needs, there's no way the Pens can part with Staal while Malkin and Crosby are both coming back from injury.

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Originally Posted by slapshots1515 View Post
I didn't find the point about Smith relevant to the statements made. But sure, Smith will continue to grow, as will Staal, as will Filppula. Filppula at Staal's age also didn't get anywhere near the same opportunity-deep Wings teams made that unnecessary. I was also unimpressed when Staal got his cracks in at the top spot when Crosby and Malkin went down, same as I was Filppula when his role expanded. I don't know which one will put it all together, maybe even neither or both, but both have potential to get better and are at a similar development stage now.

And NHL games played is at least as good a barometer as physical age in this regard.
Is this real life?

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Remind me when Staal won his Selke again?
Both him and Flip are regarded as great defensive players.
If you think Filppula and Staal are comparable defensive players, then there's no hope for this conversation. There's a considerable gap between a "good" defensive player and an "elite" one, and that gap is evidenced by the fact that when Staal was a Selke finalist in '10, Filppula didn't crack the top 60:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl-250861

Not to mention the fact that Staal is one of the most prolific PKers in the league, while Flip had fewer PK minutes per game than any other Red Wings center.

That you try to present defense as a wash here is laughable.

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Yes, you get a couple more seasons of Staal if both play to the exact same age and retire the exact same time, but the age gap is really not as relevant as you're making it out to be. Especially if you'd just say "around 4 years" instead of trying to get fancy.
It's incredibly relevant. The age gap between Staal and Filppula is bigger than the age gap between Filppula and Zetterberg.

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06-05-2011, 04:42 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by bobbyflex View Post
Kulemin gets 30G and 60P playing with Grabovski as his center. Now imagine him playing with Malkin or Crosby. Yeah no thanks
Doesn't always work that way, just because you play with a star doesn't mean your stats will sky rocket. See Chris Kunitz.

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Old
06-05-2011, 04:51 PM
  #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Is this real life?
Exactly why GP is relevant-if we're talking NHL 11, then sure, physical age is by far the more relevant stat.

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If you think Filppula and Staal are comparable defensive players, then there's no hope for this conversation. There's a considerable gap between a "good" defensive player and an "elite" one, and that gap is evidenced by the fact that when Staal was a Selke finalist in '10, Filppula didn't crack the top 60:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nhl/blog/puc...urn=nhl-250861

Not to mention the fact that Staal is one of the most prolific PKers in the league, while Flip had fewer PK minutes per game than any other Red Wings center.

That you try to present defense as a wash here is laughable.
While Datsyuk and Zetterberg still wear Winged Wheels, Flip will never lead in PK time. I don't think Staal would either. Flip shouldn't be punished just because his team's stud C's know how to play shutdown defense too.

I'd still like to hear when Staal played this Selke caliber defense that won him a Selke.

Quote:
It's incredibly relevant. The age gap between Staal and Filppula is bigger than the age gap between Filppula and Zetterberg.
Which, between the two of them really doesn't matter that much either. It's a factor, sure, but I'd base a lot more on the difference between actual games played.

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06-05-2011, 04:56 PM
  #87
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What would Pittsburgh fans say to Dustin Brown + ??? from LA?

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06-05-2011, 04:59 PM
  #88
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
What would Pittsburgh fans say to Dustin Brown + ??? from LA?
I'll arrange the flight? Dustin Brown is Crosby's ideal linemate, we'll take a straight swap.

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06-05-2011, 05:02 PM
  #89
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What would Pittsburgh fans say to Dustin Brown + ??? from LA?
You definitely wouldnt have to add anything with Brown. I'd think Pitts would have to add if anything.

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06-05-2011, 05:06 PM
  #90
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Originally Posted by slapshots1515 View Post
Exactly why GP is relevant-if we're talking NHL 11, then sure, physical age is by far the more relevant stat.
It works that way in the real world too, chief.

Michael Grabner and Jeff Skinner are not at the same point in their development, and one would have to be pretty foolish to suggest it.

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While Datsyuk and Zetterberg still wear Winged Wheels, Flip will never lead in PK time.
Or Eaves, Miller, Abdelkader, Cleary, and a 40 year old Draper, evidently.

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I'd still like to hear when Staal played this Selke caliber defense that won him a Selke.
If you'd like to get into semantics, I have no problem adjusting my comment to "Selke finalist calibre" defense, just as I have no problem referring to Filppula as "so far out of the Selke discussion that he didn't warrant a single vote".

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Which, between the two of them really doesn't matter that much either. It's a factor, sure, but I'd base a lot more on the difference between actual games played
Of course you would.

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06-05-2011, 05:11 PM
  #91
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Dream Deal (Value probably doesn't work):
Col- Stastny + Pickard

Pit- Staal + Fleury

Reality Deal:
Col- Jones + picks

Pit- Staal

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06-05-2011, 05:16 PM
  #92
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Kulemin for Staal is a fair trade. I just wouldn't do it though at this moment because Grabovski and Kulemin have developed insane chemistry together and look like they could anchor the 2nd line for many years.

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06-05-2011, 05:22 PM
  #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
What would Pittsburgh fans say to Dustin Brown + ??? from LA?
I'd do it straight up with some sort of conditional pick from Pittsburgh if L.A don't re-sign Staal.

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Originally Posted by Rockies94 View Post
Dream Deal (Value probably doesn't work):
Col- Stastny + Pickard

Pit- Staal + Fleury
Value doesn't really work and Pens have no need for Stastny with Crosby and Malkin already on board.

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Reality Deal:
Col- Jones + picks

Pit- Staal
This might be interesting but I'd want to see another season out of Jones before pulling the trigger.

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Originally Posted by Bozak View Post
Kulemin for Staal is a fair trade. I just wouldn't do it though at this moment because Grabovski and Kulemin have developed insane chemistry together and look like they could anchor the 2nd line for many years.
I agree, it doesn't make sense for Burke to trade any of the 2nd line right now.


Last edited by wej20: 06-05-2011 at 06:48 PM.
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Old
06-05-2011, 06:15 PM
  #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Then that's an issue with Oshie's contract, not Staal's.

Staal is a virtual lock to play the whole season, score ~50 points, and provide elite defense. That's worth 4 mil per on any roster.
Huh?




Whereas Staal has played almost every game in each season, last season he played what...42?

Also, Oshie's defense is not that far off Staal's and he is close to a lock to reach 50pts, even if he is injured for a part of the season.

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06-05-2011, 06:23 PM
  #95
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I'm pretty sure Pittsburgh is looking for players to go straight on the Roster ?

If not:

Andrei Kostitsyn, Danny Kristo 2011 1st (17th)

For Jordan Staal.

If not, meh. We'll hopefully re-sign akost, continue to develop Kristo and get another solid winger for us.

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06-05-2011, 06:24 PM
  #96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mpp9 View Post
Staal+resigned Kunitz for Backes?

I'd do most anything for a top 6 of...

Neal-Sid-TK
Tangradi-Malkin-Backes
no, just no.

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Old
06-05-2011, 06:30 PM
  #97
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The most I would offer is Sam Gagner and a 3rd round pick from the Oilers. Gagner would probably work better on the wing, he played well there in his rookie year.

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06-05-2011, 06:31 PM
  #98
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Originally Posted by KINGS17 View Post
What would Pittsburgh fans say to Dustin Brown + ??? from LA?
I'd say Jordan who? welcome to Pittsburgh, Brown! Doubt LA trades their captain, though. But if they are, Shero should really listen. Pens then have like 2M more to spend at UFA for around 5Mish.

Kunitz-Crosby-TK
Neal-Malkin-Laich

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Old
06-05-2011, 06:43 PM
  #99
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Ryan O'Reilly + Joey Hishon/Stefan Elliott/Tyson Barrie/Other Top Prospect

I like Staal a lot, but I'd be hesitant to give up much more than this.

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06-05-2011, 06:50 PM
  #100
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The most I would offer is Sam Gagner and a 3rd round pick from the Oilers. Gagner would probably work better on the wing, he played well there in his rookie year.
Definitely wouldn't get it done, A 3rd round pick isn't enough incentive to downgrade from Staal to Gagner.

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Originally Posted by Stories View Post
Ryan O'Reilly + Joey Hishon/Stefan Elliott/Tyson Barrie/Other Top Prospect

I like Staal a lot, but I'd be hesitant to give up much more than this.
Love O'Reilly but if Pens were to trade Staal then the main piece of the package has to be a winger who is ready to play in the NHL now.

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