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What Would You Give Up For Jordan Staal?

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Old
06-05-2011, 06:51 PM
  #101
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Not much, the Avalanche don't need Staal and I've never been a fan of his. I think the Penguins would be stupid to let him go, however; his value to Pittsburgh is probably higher than his market value.

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06-05-2011, 07:03 PM
  #102
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So David Jones + Barrie + pick for Staal

Move Duchene to wing and let him play with Staal.

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06-05-2011, 07:16 PM
  #103
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Originally Posted by Zundo View Post
Huh?
Just commenting on how Staal is more than worth his contract, which was one of your original concerns.

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Whereas Staal has played almost every game in each season, last season he played what...42?
Yes, because a skate blade cut the top of his foot and a stray puck hit him in the hand. Those two obviously non-recurring freak accidents account for the only games he's ever missed in the NHL due to injury.

The kid's as durable as they come, unless the opposition has devised nefarious plans next year to slice him with their skates or shoot pucks at his hand.

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Also, Oshie's defense is not that far off Staal's
It's pretty far off.

Nevermind that Staal's a couple years younger and much more playoff proven.

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and he is close to a lock to reach 50pts, even if he is injured for a part of the season.
Oshie's played 3 seasons and hasn't hit 40 in 2 of them.

I'm really arguing for nothing beyond value here. I don't advocate any Staal for Oshie deal.


Last edited by Rowdy Roddy Peeper: 06-05-2011 at 07:24 PM.
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Old
06-05-2011, 07:44 PM
  #104
Celtic Note
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Just commenting on how Staal is more than worth his contract, which was one of your original concerns.



Yes, because a skate blade cut the top of his foot and a stray puck hit him in the hand. Those two obviously non-recurring freak accidents account for the only games he's ever missed in the NHL due to injury.

The kid's as durable as they come, unless the opposition has devised nefarious plans next year to slice him with their skates or shoot pucks at his hand.



It's pretty far off.

Nevermind that Staal's a couple years younger and much more playoff proven.



Oshie's played 3 seasons and hasn't hit 40 in 2 of them.
My concern is whether the Blues have room for Staal's contract when we can have Oshie for much less, who is pretty close to a comparable player. This is especially an issue when we have actual needs that need filling and a tight internal budget.

If we are arguing injuries, we can make the same case for Oshie in terms of freak injuries, especially based on the way you are defining them. If you are a defensive player who blocks shots, then pucks hitting you in odd places will always be a risk. As for Oshie's ankle break, can we expect there to be scrum next year where someone awkwardly falls on Oshie causing him to break his ankle? Finally, Oshie has almost always returned from injury much earlier than anticipated, so even if he gets injured, he will heal quick.

As for the defense, I am not going to sit here and argue with you. If you think they are not close than so be it, but it doesn't make it true. I am not inclined to agree with you. Also, just because he has more playoff experience does not mean Oshie is not as capable. It just means he hasn't had the chances.

As for the 40 pt issue. If Oshie is healthy it should be no problem. Hell if he plays 75 games again he will hit 50 pts based on his average PPG. Also, in the last three years Oshie has the better PPG .665 compared to .618 PPG. If we factor in Staal's whole career his PPG is .537. I would say the upside is better for Oshie, who has also played on poorer teams. If Oshie has more injury issues this year then it might be fair to call him an injury prone player, but at this point it is still early.

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06-05-2011, 07:57 PM
  #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Yes, because a skate blade cut the top of his foot and a stray puck hit him in the hand. Those two obviously non-recurring freak accidents account for the only games he's ever missed in the NHL due to injury.

The kid's as durable as they come, unless the opposition has devised nefarious plans next year to slice him with their skates or shoot pucks at his hand.
.
wasn't it him getting repeated infections that actually kept him out for longer?

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06-05-2011, 07:58 PM
  #106
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Originally Posted by Rockies94 View Post
So David Jones + Barrie + pick for Staal

Move Duchene to wing and let him play with Staal.
i wouldnt do this as an avs fan, not high on staal at all, how bout O'Reily for Staal

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06-05-2011, 08:04 PM
  #107
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Originally Posted by oilers92 View Post
wasn't it him getting repeated infections that actually kept him out for longer?
Don't think it was repeated infections, just one. Anyway you slice it Staal is a guy who is likely going to play 82 games plus playoffs every year.

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Old
06-05-2011, 08:14 PM
  #108
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Originally Posted by Zundo View Post
My concern is whether the Blues have room for Staal's contract when we can have Oshie for much less, who is pretty close to a comparable player. This is especially an issue when we have actual needs that need filling and a tight internal budget.
Oshie comes with a history of partial seasons that simply isn't there with Staal. You seem confident that they're a thing of the past, which surely elevates his contract value in your eyes.

That's your prerogative, and it would certainly tip the balance. I'm much more skeptical.

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If we are arguing injuries, we can make the same case for Oshie in terms of freak injuries, especially based on the way you are defining them.
Oshie's problem in '08 was with his left ankle too, correct?

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If you are a defensive player who blocks shots, then pucks hitting you in odd places will always be a risk.
So is every dedicated defensive player an injury liability now, regardless of whether he's ever been injured by a blocked shot before (FYI Staal was injured by a stray puck in practice, not a blocked shot)?



Quote:
As for Oshie's ankle break, can we expect there to be scrum next year where someone awkwardly falls on Oshie causing him to break his ankle? Finally, Oshie has almost always returned from injury much earlier than anticipated, so even if he gets injured, he will heal quick.
He's missed almost 80 games over the last 3 years on account of his left ankle. Quick healing or not, that's a long time to be out.

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Also, just because he has more playoff experience does not mean Oshie is not as capable. It just means he hasn't had the chances.
Did > might be able to do.

Quote:
As for the 40 pt issue. If Oshie is healthy it should be no problem. Hell if he plays 75 games again he will hit 50 pts based on his average PPG. Also, in the last three years Oshie has the better PPG .665 compared to .618 PPG. If we factor in Staal's whole career his PPG is .537. I would say the upside is better for Oshie, who has also played on poorer teams. If Oshie has more injury issues this year then it might be fair to call him an injury prone player, but at this point it is still early.
That can be your chance to take.

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Old
06-05-2011, 08:29 PM
  #109
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Originally Posted by Jvirk View Post
Hemsky + 19th?

That's what I'd do, anyway. Jordan Staal would be a perfect 2C behind RNH.
Right now, Staal does not take a back seat to RNH. Down the road perhaps, but Staal is the one that would be playing in the #1 center slot.

Just shows how much these boards overrate prospects. Ridiculous!!!

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06-05-2011, 08:38 PM
  #110
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Originally Posted by 66-29-33 View Post
I'd say Jordan who? welcome to Pittsburgh, Brown! Doubt LA trades their captain, though. But if they are, Shero should really listen. Pens then have like 2M more to spend at UFA for around 5Mish.

Kunitz-Crosby-TK
Neal-Malkin-Laich
So you trade for Dustin Brown and then go out and get Brooks Laich on top of that and still play TK in the top 6???

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Old
06-05-2011, 09:31 PM
  #111
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Somebody brought up a deal the other day I would maybe consider. Trade Staal for a really good prospect and a high pick, and then throw an offer sheet at Parise. They would have to be damn sure they get him though. Nobody has offered one single thing on here that would make me want to trade Staal. I am not saying a few of them were not fair deals, just not that appealing.

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06-05-2011, 09:47 PM
  #112
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
So is every dedicated defensive player an injury liability now, regardless of whether he's ever been injured by a blocked shot before (FYI Staal was injured by a stray puck in practice, not a blocked shot)?



This is what you come back with? Also you are putting words in my mouth.

Not really interested in carrying on this conversation.

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Old
06-05-2011, 10:00 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by Zundo View Post
This is what you come back with? Also you are putting words in my mouth.

Not really interested in carrying on this conversation.
Ditto. Nice avy though, Albert's the man.

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06-05-2011, 10:07 PM
  #114
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Originally Posted by froods View Post
Somebody brought up a deal the other day I would maybe consider. Trade Staal for a really good prospect and a high pick, and then throw an offer sheet at Parise. They would have to be damn sure they get him though. Nobody has offered one single thing on here that would make me want to trade Staal. I am not saying a few of them were not fair deals, just not that appealing.
That's assuming Parise is a guarantee. What if the Devils end up matching?

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Old
06-05-2011, 10:09 PM
  #115
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To the Penguins
M.Frolik
T.Brouwer
18th overall

Chicago
J.Staal
D.Engelland

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Old
06-05-2011, 10:18 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by Champagne Wishes View Post
Ditto. Nice avy though, Albert's the man.
Gotta love that music. I like Junior Kimbrough a lot too!

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06-05-2011, 10:26 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by wej20 View Post
Definitely wouldn't get it done, A 3rd round pick isn't enough incentive to downgrade from Staal to Gagner.
And any more I think would be an overpayment, considering we would need Staal to play first line, and I`m not confident he could handle it.

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06-05-2011, 10:28 PM
  #118
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Originally Posted by Zundo View Post
Gotta love that music. I like Junior Kimbrough a lot too!
Not to get too off-topic, but hell yeah. Last blues-related post from me in this thread, I swear:




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Old
06-05-2011, 11:13 PM
  #119
Drydenwasthebest
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To Montreal: Staal

To Pittsburgh: A Kostitsyn, 2011 1st, Weber.

That would be my offer. I hate parting with AK and Weber, but Staal would be the second line center we need in order to drop Gomez to 3rd line. AK with Crosby is just a scary thought to face, though...sigh...

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06-05-2011, 11:14 PM
  #120
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Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
And any more I think would be an overpayment, considering we would need Staal to play first line, and I`m not confident he could handle it.
he can't, not yet anyway. He doesn't have enough offensive jump in his game to be a #1. He is a hell of a #2 though IMO.

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06-05-2011, 11:18 PM
  #121
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Here's a list of players I would be interested in dealing Staal for (not saying they are likely or will happen, now or forever but...):

Parise
Ryan
Brown
Eberle
Eriksson
Benn
Pavelski
Sharp
Hossa
Backstrom
Kulemin

Again, not saying that any of these are a straight trade...but some guys who are in the ballpark. I realize, yes, that most would involve Staal +

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06-06-2011, 02:28 AM
  #122
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Amazing how little people will give up for Staal.

He's already proven on the NHL level where most prospects from his draft are just now NHL ready, he's already been a finalist for an NHL award, and despite major injuries woes this year, his total PPG in a season was never this high.

Oh, and that was without the help of Evgeni Malkin or Sidney Crosby in the line-up.

That's okay. I'll keep the 22-year-old Selke finalist who is progressing years ahead of the norm and no where near his prime. I'm sure everyone will want to throw the books at him once he reaches that prime and realize how silly it was to lowball an offer for him.

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Old
06-06-2011, 06:39 AM
  #123
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As a Leafs fan, I would give up A LOT for him. I think that playing on that team, he doesn't get the full appreciation that he should. He does get some appreciation for sure, but I think that playing behind Crosby and Malkin will do that to anyone. It kind of reminds me of Dave Bolland's role in Chicago.

An initial proposal would be:

Colborne
MacArthur
Gunnarsson
Boston 2nd round pick

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Old
06-06-2011, 06:41 AM
  #124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dylonus View Post
Amazing how little people will give up for Staal.

He's already proven on the NHL level where most prospects from his draft are just now NHL ready, he's already been a finalist for an NHL award, and despite major injuries woes this year, his total PPG in a season was never this high.

Oh, and that was without the help of Evgeni Malkin or Sidney Crosby in the line-up.

That's okay. I'll keep the 22-year-old Selke finalist who is progressing years ahead of the norm and no where near his prime. I'm sure everyone will want to throw the books at him once he reaches that prime and realize how silly it was to lowball an offer for him.
*cue response of Staal being the most overrated player on HF.*

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Old
06-06-2011, 06:42 AM
  #125
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I know it wouldnt happen considering we just signed him but I think its fair value to say

To Buffalo
Staal

To Pitt
Stafford

Buffalo gets their number 2 center and Pitt gets their top line winger to play with Crosby.

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