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Sam Gagner

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Old
06-07-2011, 04:36 PM
  #26
Jamin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by victor View Post
From here: Lowetide - see the comments...



It's odd, as he's not known for rumors. That said, if NJ drafted 4th overall, if they wanted to sign the player, they'd be looking at $3.1 m/yr cap hit (e.g. Evander Kane in 2009.) Given their desire to sign Parise, not a great idea.

Hemsky gives them a great player at a cheap cap hit (4.1m.) Cogliano a cheap RFA. Assuming Cogliano signs around 1.2m, NJD clears 2.7m in cap, and can use that (plus the cap space that would be consumed from the #4 pick) to keep Parise.

Kovalchuk's prime years are burning, best to get him players to play with, and manage the cap.
As much as I love hemsky I would do this trade in a heart beat.


Draft larsson first and take Courturier fourth.

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Old
06-07-2011, 04:45 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Jamin View Post
As much as I love hemsky I would do this trade in a heart beat.


Draft larsson first and take Courturier fourth.
Draft RNH 1st and draft Huberdeau/Larsson/Couturier/Hamilton 4th (whoever Stu likes more).

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Old
06-07-2011, 04:59 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by ItsTheBGB View Post
Draft RNH 1st and draft Huberdeau/Larsson/Couturier/Hamilton 4th (whoever Stu likes more).
In a perfect world I want a centre and a dman. Sure RNH and SC is awesome but not as much as RNH/SC and Larsson/other sweet dman who is available

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Old
06-07-2011, 05:52 PM
  #29
I am the Liquor
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But getting Hopkins and Couturier allows us to football kick Gagner.

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Old
06-07-2011, 06:52 PM
  #30
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Rather than a draft pick, what about a young prospect that, has size, speed, an NHL shot, and can play center? Does that make like a 1st round pick instead?

Does a guy like Evgeny Grachev interest Edmonton at all, if it meant you kept Gagne too?

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06-07-2011, 06:54 PM
  #31
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I've never seen Lowetide post a rumour before so there might be some truth to this.
I would imagine the the Oilers would be looking to take RNH first, and then does Colorado take Landeskog, Florida take Huberdeau/Couturier?

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Old
06-07-2011, 06:57 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
But getting Hopkins and Couturier allows us to football kick Gagner.
Maybe we should wait until RNH and Couturier have actually made the team before we move out Gagner.

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06-07-2011, 07:05 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
Maybe we should wait until RNH and Couturier have actually made the team before we move out Gagner.
Either of them would be an immediate improvement.

So making the team shouldn't be a problem.

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Old
06-07-2011, 07:11 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wheatking View Post
Jordan Eberle at 20 years old: 69 games- 18 goals and 43 points
Sam Gagner(8 months older): 68 games- 15 goals and 42 points

Stats don't tell the whole story and Eberle is the better player but I think Oilers fans are too tough on Gagner. He's a 1st line center on the worst team in the league at 21 years old. He should be able to be a good 2nd line center on a playoff team when he's 25. Keep him until something better comes along...and that something isn't Anton Lander or Tyler Pitlick.
Eberle = Rookie
Gagner = 4 year veteran

You can't compare the two despite their age, Eberle is better as a rookie than Gagner is as a 4th year pro.
However, we shouldn't trade Gagner just yet unless some team overpays (like a top 10 pick which is a total pipedream) since there is no viable option to replace him at the moment.

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Old
06-07-2011, 09:06 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Either of them would be an immediate improvement.

So making the team shouldn't be a problem.
And in three or four years we will be having this same discussion because we rushed the kids and they aren't developing as quickly as posters like you want.

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Old
06-07-2011, 09:15 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by Koto View Post
not a good idea, at least for this year

hemsky is the only roster player we should be shopping because wingers are our only deep position in the oilers roster

to cbj hemsky to edm 8 (great setup man to complete Johansen+Nash)

to nyi 8+19 to edm 5+35 (only works if nyi is looking to draft defence with their top pick)
Names That Will Automatically End Any Talks For 8th Overall:
Carl Gunnarson
Yannick Weber
Jaroslav Spacek
Mike Komisarek
Ales Hemsky

(New names are italicized)

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Old
06-07-2011, 10:03 PM
  #37
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Would not trade Gagner for 14th overall pathetic asset management. I lol on Oil fans who have given up on a 21 year old center who has never produced under 40 points. Gagner is going nowhere.

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Old
06-07-2011, 10:52 PM
  #38
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Stajan +2nd rnd 2011 (57th) ?

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Old
06-07-2011, 11:57 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zeus3007 View Post
And in three or four years we will be having this same discussion because we rushed the kids and they aren't developing as quickly as posters like you want.
Or in Gagner's case, at all.

If you cant tell the difference between Gagner and RNH/Couturier, then there really isnt anything to say.

You could keep him around for one, two or three years, but if you had both of those prospects, Gagner is gone. It wouldnt be a matter of if, it would be when.

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Old
06-08-2011, 12:03 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newoilburnsclean View Post
Would not trade Gagner for 14th overall pathetic asset management. I lol on Oil fans who have given up on a 21 year old center who has never produced under 40 points. Gagner is going nowhere.
I'd take the 14th overall pick for Gagner and run with it.

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Old
06-08-2011, 02:06 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oilwings View Post
I'd take the 14th overall pick for Gagner and run with it.
...because 14th Overall is guaranteed to consistently score 40 points a year.

What's with the Gagner hate? Has he ever shown he was lazy? Overweight? Lacking ambition? The kid's 21 years old with 4 seasons under his belt. He's consistently scored 40 points a year and it's very unlikely that he has peaked offensively.

He's got a contract year coming up and no matter who the Oilers pick 1st overall, Gagner's gonna be a go-to guy this season.

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Old
06-08-2011, 02:10 AM
  #42
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hes still young, been saying this over and over, based off how other #1 centers are they don't break out until age 22-25 give him couple more season's

thats if he breaks out, he could not and be a simple 2nd line center.

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Old
06-08-2011, 02:13 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ceeber View Post
Edmonton wants another 1st round pick in the top 10. Maybe even in the top 20. What do you all think he is worth?

Would Gagner alone get Edmonton Dallas' 14th overall?
Would Gagner and our 31st overall get Edm the Islander's 5th?
Or how about Gagner, 19th overall and Calgarys 3rd (70ish) for Florida's 3rd?

Comments?
As a montreal fan, i think you underestimate Gagner value. I think ganer could fetch more than all these proposal.

Gagner is just turned 21 have already 291gp experience and he did well so far. He is on the right track to become an NHL stars.

As a montreal fan, i could give you carey price and pacioretty for gagner and dubnyuk


Last edited by palindrom: 06-08-2011 at 02:21 AM.
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Old
06-08-2011, 07:50 AM
  #44
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Wow, nice to see one of my posts gets a decent discussion going. For non-Oiler fans, the reason I see Gagner expedible at this moment is that he is a smaller second line center with room to grow. No smart GM's trade for undersized average skating players unless their is that potential they can still develop. Unfortunately for Gagner, Horcoff is also a second line center and by contract is untradeable. I like both these players a lot actually.

For Oiler fans, that don't want to trade Gagner, the point is that out of 12 dressed forwards we have the following small skill players which every expert says we have too many.

Hemsky - Eberle - Omark - Gagner - Cogliano - Brule - RNH(most likely). That is over half the team. We need to get bigger and stronger across the lineup and the one player that is available that would garner the most interest is Gagner.

Brule has no trade value except to the irish hockey league, but is cheap and has many reasons to have a strong season if he stays healthy.

Cogs has shown durability and can flow up and down the lineup at center or wing and is cheap.

Hemsky is your best asset and wont face other teams best d-men all the time this year with the growth of Hall and Eberle

They are not trading Eberle

Omark is a wild card I would prefer to keep.

Keep the discussion going!

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Old
06-08-2011, 10:09 AM
  #45
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Originally Posted by I am the Liquor View Post
Or in Gagner's case, at all.

If you cant tell the difference between Gagner and RNH/Couturier, then there really isnt anything to say.

You could keep him around for one, two or three years, but if you had both of those prospects, Gagner is gone. It wouldnt be a matter of if, it would be when.
I agree that the writing would be on the wall for Gagner if we could draft both RNH and Coutourier. But probably not for at least a year, and I still wouldn't move him for the crap that most Oil Gagner-haters seem to think he is worth.

And I don't know where the "Gagner hasn't developed at all" stuff has come from. If you look back to his first season, he played easy minutes and I don't think there was a play where he ever cared about backchecking. Even Nillson got back first. While he is certainly not a world beater defensively, or even a guy I would call "decent" defensively, he is much better than he was at 18. He is also putting up similar numbers with tougher opposition. He has improved just as much as a number of other small forwards who are now very, very good players had at the same age, like Martin St. Louis for example. Not that I expect Gagner to become that good, but I do expect him to improve on what he currently is, and become a very good offensive second line center.

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Old
06-08-2011, 10:10 AM
  #46
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Originally Posted by belair View Post
...because 14th Overall is guaranteed to consistently score 40 points a year.

What's with the Gagner hate? Has he ever shown he was lazy? Overweight? Lacking ambition? The kid's 21 years old with 4 seasons under his belt. He's consistently scored 40 points a year and it's very unlikely that he has peaked offensively.

He's got a contract year coming up and no matter who the Oilers pick 1st overall, Gagner's gonna be a go-to guy this season.
Didn't you hear? Gagner's weaknesses are what kills players and his strengths don't mean anything........on HFOil.

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Old
06-09-2011, 12:46 AM
  #47
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Ok guys, let say we keep Gagner and let him develop further. Say we draft RNH. We'll be killed on a nightly basis with the following top 5 forwards.

Hall, Eberle, MP, Gagner, and RNH.

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Old
06-09-2011, 12:53 AM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Names That Will Automatically End Any Talks For 8th Overall:
Carl Gunnarson
Yannick Weber
Jaroslav Spacek
Mike Komisarek
Ales Hemsky

(New names are italicized)
While Hemsky's injury woes and 1 yr contract don't make him overly valuable, you have to admit, Hemsky is considerably more valuable than anyone on the list you mentioned. I agree that moving Hemsky for a top 10 pick is pretty much a pipe dream but this list associates him with players that shouldn't even be in the same conversation.

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Old
06-09-2011, 08:57 AM
  #49
Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Toydarian View Post
While Hemsky's injury woes and 1 yr contract don't make him overly valuable, you have to admit, Hemsky is considerably more valuable than anyone on the list you mentioned. I agree that moving Hemsky for a top 10 pick is pretty much a pipe dream but this list associates him with players that shouldn't even be in the same conversation.
The only real association intended is that they are players that do not fit the CBJ's needs at all and thus would not be in a package for 8th overall... but that somehow doesn't stop fans from proposing them for that pick, over and over and over and over and over.

Arguably any top-6 offensive player (Carter and his ilk being a significant exception) or any bottom-pairing or prospect D could make the list. It's just that so far four of those five are the ones we keep hearing. (Komi's been mentioned once...but that was far, far more than enough! )

Hemsky makes it only because our priority is D. I admit a Hemsky+Gilbert+pick for 8th overall deal might be palatable for us... but it's less than ideal, and I figure y'all would be planning to lynch Tambellini if it happened.


Last edited by Viqsi: 06-09-2011 at 09:00 AM. Reason: less than idea*l*, not less than idea
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Old
06-09-2011, 10:52 AM
  #50
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Originally Posted by ceeber View Post
Wow, nice to see one of my posts gets a decent discussion going. For non-Oiler fans, the reason I see Gagner expedible at this moment is that he is a smaller second line center with room to grow. No smart GM's trade for undersized average skating players unless their is that potential they can still develop. Unfortunately for Gagner, Horcoff is also a second line center and by contract is untradeable. I like both these players a lot actually.

For Oiler fans, that don't want to trade Gagner, the point is that out of 12 dressed forwards we have the following small skill players which every expert says we have too many.

Hemsky - Eberle - Omark - Gagner - Cogliano - Brule - RNH(most likely). That is over half the team. We need to get bigger and stronger across the lineup and the one player that is available that would garner the most interest is Gagner.

Brule has no trade value except to the irish hockey league, but is cheap and has many reasons to have a strong season if he stays healthy.

Cogs has shown durability and can flow up and down the lineup at center or wing and is cheap.

Hemsky is your best asset and wont face other teams best d-men all the time this year with the growth of Hall and Eberle

They are not trading Eberle

Omark is a wild card I would prefer to keep.

Keep the discussion going!
I would trade Omark, Hemsky, and Brule all before Gagner, and it wouldn't take much for me to move Brule or Omark personally. Hemsky won't get the proper value, so we can take him out of the discussion.

I'm not against trading Gagner, but in my mind the only way we can do it is if we get a big center who can play top six minutes. Those types of guys are not available typically, even if we package Gagner with a decent draft pick and a player like Omark or Smid.

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