I've noticed people mentioning Dan Girardi quite a bit lately - especially since we acquired Erixon. I really don't get this trade Girardi talk... He plays top pair minutes and is an extremely solid defender. Just imagine what our D would look like if we dealt Girardi, and Staal was injured. It would really struggle. I get the idea of trading from a strength to add offense, but I doubt you get a player who is gifted enough to make it worth it. I'm not dealing a guy who plays in all situations for a second line winger, and I doubt his value gets you a first line player - oh yea, AND he's locked up to a very fair contract... no way Girardi gets dealt unless it's in a package for an offensive star - and even then, you would have to find a guy who can play those minutes. I'm very positive about Erixon, but you still can't expect a guy whose never played an NHL game to cover that (...and yes, I know - he's played against men..)
Dont get me wrong, I like Dan Girardi. Nice story, good player, etc.
But he is also probably one of the most overrated Rangers on the current roster. All you have to do is analyze how hes played without a rock like Staal by his side over the last couple of seasons. Whenever they are seperated, Girardi goes from being very good to very average.
You can play him on the top pair because he works well with Staal as a shutdown pair, but that doesnt make him a "top pair defenseman" in the traditional sense.
I've noticed people mentioning Dan Girardi quite a bit lately - especially since we acquired Erixon. I really don't get this trade Girardi talk... He plays top pair minutes and is an extremely solid defender. Just imagine what our D would look like if we dealt Girardi, and Staal was injured. It would really struggle. I get the idea of trading from a strength to add offense, but I doubt you get a player who is gifted enough to make it worth it. I'm not dealing a guy who plays in all situations for a second line winger, and I doubt his value gets you a first line player - oh yea, AND he's locked up to a very fair contract... no way Girardi gets dealt unless it's in a package for an offensive star - and even then, you would have to find a guy who can play those minutes. I'm very positive about Erixon, but you still can't expect a guy whose never played an NHL game to cover that (...and yes, I know - he's played against men..)
People on HF boards think that having a younger player that's not as good yet, makes the veteran player more expendable. Why they think this, I have no idea. For example, people think Pavelski will be traded because Couture had a good rookie season. This logic is faulty because the idea is to stock up as many good players as you can, not trade them away when you don't even know for sure the next guy can replace him.
Now we're seeing the same thing with Girardi. I'm just glad that most GM's don't think the same way HF boards does.
"Let's trade our top 4 d-man on a good contract and replace him with a rookie who has yet to play an NHL game!" "Yeah, great idea!"
And just like how the Avs will draft Couture which will make Stastny expendable.
I don't think he'll be traded now, but down the road, I could see one of Girardi, Sauer, or McDonagh being traded. There's just far too much redundancy in the top 4.
And I agree with BRB. Girardi is a not a top pairing defenseman. He's really more of a #3. Ideally, I'd want someone who excels offensively and is defensively capable to play on the top pair with Staal. But who knows if that will happen.
Dont get me wrong, I like Dan Girardi. Nice story, good player, etc.
But he is also probably one of the most overrated Rangers on the current roster.
I actually completely disagree. I think of him as one of the most underrated guys. He plays 25 min a game in all situations. I was ticked off for a couple years when the Rangers dealt Tyutin, and kept him... but looking back - he would be tough to replace. I'm not saying that I wouldn't trade him in any deal, but to replace what he brings to the team... would be VERY tough to do. I guess the best way to put it would be that is value to the team far exceeds his trade value around the league..
He has value and we have a glut of D now. Makes sense that he would enter people's minds in that regard.
The Rangers have a glut of YOUNG defensemen... Sauer and McDonough are entering year two. Erixon will be a rookie, and who plays with him? I think DZ needs some AHL seasoning with his defense... The Rangers have a terrific young D-core, but I don't see why you cripple that by dealing a guy whose on your top pair whose in his mid-twenties and locked up to a conservative contract..
Staal - Girardi
Sauer - Mcdonaugh
Erixon - ?
That looks pretty good for next year...
Staal - Sauer
Mcdonaugh - Erixon
? - ?
... and again, what if Staal went down ... I really don't see the logic unless someone blows you out of the water...
People underrate Girardi... Dude is a damn good player and he's spent plenty of time NOT playing with Staal where people should know that he's a good player regardless of who he's paired with.
Girardi should only be moved if an elite talent is coming back in the deal. For example, I would trade Dubi, Girardi, prospect, and a 1st for someone like Rick Nash (maybe Statsny)... because that deal would make our team better for a very long time. Pretty good offer too. Some might not want to give that up, but that is what you pay for an elite talent... and elite talent wins you CUPs. I'm not sure they would even accept that for Nash (if he was available) by the way.
Moving Girardi for the sake of it is just plain insane. But if you are going to move one of Staal, Girardi, McD, and Sauer... it would be Girardi IMO. You have to understand that other teams aren't going to value guys like MDZ, V-Tank, and Kundratek as much as one of our roster top 4 guys. In the end, this is probably all moot, because I am not sure any team gives up an elite talent with McD going the other way. And Slats is not trading McD.
I also have to worry about Girardi breaking down. He's body has taken a hell of beating over the last two seasons.
Quote:
Originally Posted by OverTheCap
I don't think he'll be traded now, but down the road, I could see one of Girardi, Sauer, or McDonagh being traded. There's just far too much redundancy in the top 4.
I wouldn't mind seeing Girardi moved because of these two reasons.
Staal, Girardi, Sauer, and McD as a top 4 are very solid but they all play a similiar defensive style. I'm not moving Staal and I think Girardi has the most value, therefore possibly bringing in that top 6 talent we need.
I actually completely disagree. I think of him as one of the most underrated guys. He plays 25 min a game in all situations. I was ticked off for a couple years when the Rangers dealt Tyutin, and kept him... but looking back - he would be tough to replace. I'm not saying that I wouldn't trade him in any deal, but to replace what he brings to the team... would be VERY tough to do. I guess the best way to put it would be that is value to the team far exceeds his trade value around the league..
Staal is one of the more underrated guys, because his exceptional play in the defensive zone and against other team's top players make good players like Girardi look very good.
"25 minutes a game in all situations"
Thats nice and all, but do we really want Dan Girardi playing on the powerplay? And the reason his value to this team far exceeds his trade value around the league is because other GM's know that if they acquire Dan Girardi, he wont be logging these big minutes with Marc Staal.
BRB said it best - Girardi is good, but not THAT good. I mean, I've seen people say he's better than Staal, which is completely false. He's an excellent shot blocker, but I've seen him get turned inside-out too many times to trust him to anchor a pairing. He is an average skater at best, and can get caught flatfooted more than the average "1st pair" defenseman. He is on the Rangers 1st pairing by default; and while he has performed admirably there, he's not a guy you want playing on your first pairing as a cup contender.
Also, I don't think people are advocating to trade him now, but at the end of NEXT season; when the Rangers have a better idea of what they have in Erixon, Del Zotto, and McIlrath. Even then, I, myself, have only advocated trading Girardi+ for a top pairing puck mover to pair with Staal, as I don't think the Rangers would be able to garner a #1 LW back with Girardi as the main piece.
As for SBOB's point...I'm 50/50 on that. Guy's never missed a game due to injury, but he goes down to block shots almost as much as the goalies go down to stop the puck. It's definitely a risk with him, despite the fact that he has been an iron man here.
He is good but he is 2nd pairing good. He wouldn't be on the first pairing on a cup winning team. If there is a better replacement, move him down a slot. That lengthens the line up.
The Rangers have a glut of YOUNG defensemen... Sauer and McDonough are entering year two. Erixon will be a rookie, and who plays with him? I think DZ needs some AHL seasoning with his defense... The Rangers have a terrific young D-core, but I don't see why you cripple that by dealing a guy whose on your top pair whose in his mid-twenties and locked up to a conservative contract..
Staal - Girardi
Sauer - Mcdonaugh
Erixon - ?
That looks pretty good for next year...
Staal - Sauer
Mcdonaugh - Erixon
? - ?
... and again, what if Staal went down ... I really don't see the logic unless someone blows you out of the water...
I'd say you could add in some stopgap bottom defenders or chase a guy like Ericsson/Babchuk but this is Sather so it might not be advisable. And I'd agree with other posters here, seems like the Rangers are just in the growing pains spot where you can see the light at the end of the tunnel but you still got a bit of a way to go. Until Erixon/MDZ/McIlrath can really make the jump or Sather can secure a trade that gets the Rangers a truely scary D corp we're stuck with Giradi (not the worst thing) and Eminger. I don't know what's happening with Gilroy though yet, is he on his way out or is he actually being re-signed as an RFA?
Staal is one of the more underrated guys, because his exceptional play in the defensive zone and against other team's top players make good players like Girardi look very good.
"25 minutes a game in all situations"
Thats nice and all, but do we really want Dan Girardi playing on the powerplay? And the reason his value to this team far exceeds his trade value around the league is because other GM's know that if they acquire Dan Girardi, he wont be logging these big minutes with Marc Staal.
Ok, so, if a defensemen doesn't play on the powerplay then he is just average.
To me a defensemen should be able to play defense first and worry about everything else after that...plus, Giradi did have 31 points and didn't play the powerplay, maybe we should if you consider the following:
31 points only puts him 6 behind guys like Kronwall, Myers, Timonen, 5 behind Babchuk & Pitkaken.
I bet those guys all got more powerplay time than Giradi did.
Just so I clarify, when Giradi watch Carcillo beat up Gabby, I wanted him gone, dead, buried but since then he has showed me he is a warrior and is willing to do anything for his team...I am not saying I am against trading him when the time presents itself and if it is for the correct deal but he should not be traded at all this season.
We need McDonaugh and Sauer to have another solid year and not a drop off like DZ had in his sophmore yr
Yes eventually one has to go likely for a Forward but until they put a few yrs together no is going anywhere
Well said, Vitto.
The people here that took MDZ's rookie season for granted, seem to be doing the same with McD+Sauer. Hell, they're doing it with Erixon w/o having watched him skate a single shift.
A couple of solid rookie season's doesn't mean Girardi has become expendable. Not even close...
I've noticed people mentioning Dan Girardi quite a bit lately - especially since we acquired Erixon. I really don't get this trade Girardi talk... He plays top pair minutes and is an extremely solid defender. Just imagine what our D would look like if we dealt Girardi, and Staal was injured. It would really struggle. I get the idea of trading from a strength to add offense, but I doubt you get a player who is gifted enough to make it worth it. I'm not dealing a guy who plays in all situations for a second line winger, and I doubt his value gets you a first line player - oh yea, AND he's locked up to a very fair contract... no way Girardi gets dealt unless it's in a package for an offensive star - and even then, you would have to find a guy who can play those minutes. I'm very positive about Erixon, but you still can't expect a guy whose never played an NHL game to cover that (...and yes, I know - he's played against men..)
Stall being injured has nothing to do with trading Girardi. If Staal gets injured there's a HUGE whole to fill no matter what, period, he's the leader on defense, an assistant captain and a leader all together.
But if Staal does go down the first thing you do is rely on your #7 defenseman who IMO, should be one of the two veterans who would rather play in NY than anywhere else. Those two guys should be one of Bryan McCabe or Steve Eminger. That's the first plug.
What if Staal and someone else goes down or what if Staal and someone like MDZ isn't playing well and needs a stint in the minors? Then you callup someone down in Hartford who many have said was the best all round defender down there. He was a lot less physically mature than McD and that may have been the reason for the different callup but Tomas Kundratek is pretty darn close to being ready to step in. His defensive game is probably better than McCabe's and that's who I'd look to next.
IMO Erixon skates better than Girardi has a shot as good as Girardi will play defense as good as Girardi. I say start him on the 3rd line with that veteran defenseman getting time with Staal then eventually move him to that pairing with Staal and let that veteran defenesman work his way to a healthy scratch as the kids work their way into the lineup.
On a top pair you want two qualities skating guys and one should be a high end PMD, neither Staal or Girardi is a high end PMD, Erixon has the highest offensive acumen of the 3 of them and Girardi isn't quality skating at all, though he's come a long way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jersey Girl
I don't get the 'trade Girardi' sentiment either.
1) Stacked with young talented defensemen.
2) You only get to play 6 defensmen. You play 12 Forwards.
3) Rangers don't score.
4) Rangers don't have high end scoring forwards.
5) Girardi's stock is high
6) Use what you have to get what you need.
