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06-11-2011, 02:33 PM
  #226
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
I want Hamilton too if we don't slide into the top 5.
Where do you project players like Hamilton to be in the NHL? I've heard about Larsson who's supposed to be really good but he most likely won't fall to 8. Who are the players that you think would be good at 8 and how would they affect the team?

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06-11-2011, 02:41 PM
  #227
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I'd also like to add that CBJ GM was on Oiler's Lunch yesterday. They are on Team 1260 an Edmonton Sports Station. He was talking about how it is very difficult to attract any free agents to Columbus. He was saying that players he is looking to trade for should have years left on their contract. It sounded exactly like the kind of trade you'd make for Carter. Something tells me that he is going to offer a lot for him. It should be mentioned though that in an earlier interview I think Elliotte Friedman says that the Flyers and Carter had a verbal promise not to trade him. At the end of hour one there is an interview with Bryzgalov's agent Rich Winter.
June 10th Hour 2 has the Howson interview and Friedman saying Carter had Verbal agreement with team not to trade him.
http://www.theteam1260.com/podcasts/oilerslunch.aspx

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06-11-2011, 02:47 PM
  #228
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Originally Posted by JABEE View Post
Where do you project players like Hamilton to be in the NHL? I've heard about Larsson who's supposed to be really good but he most likely won't fall to 8. Who are the players that you think would be good at 8 and how would they affect the team?
Like I said before, I envision there to be a top 4 of RNH, Landeskog, Larsson, and Couturier.

If we were to move into the top 5, I'd want it to be 1 or 2 so we can get Larsson or Landeskog with our selection. I consider Larsson the best overall possible selection in the draft, and while I don't see Landeskog with more dominant potential than RNH or Couturier, I think he fits our team better.

I have Huberdeau as the 5th and a little lesser than the others, but I think he could sneak in there somewhere.

Then you have guys in the range of the 8th pick, which we would get.

Dougie Hamilton and Ryan Murphy are the two defensemen in that range. Hamilton certainly has talent, but Murphy is the more flashy of the two. I consider Hamilton a safer pick even though Murphy has more potential. There's also some rumors that Murphy was not doing well during interviews with teams. There's certainly some red flags there. I like Hamilton. I think he's my favorite pick outside of the top 5, particularly for the Flyers.

Out of forwards you're looking at Zibanejad, Strome, Armia, Bartschi, McNeill, Scheifele, and Biggs.

Knowing that I'd want size on the outside, I want Armia or Zibanejad (even though he's a center I think he can play nicely on the outside). Biggs sounds nice, but he might be a bit of stretch at 8.

Strome though, you might have to take if he slips to 8. I don't know how the organization feels about ignoring need and bringing in a potential stud center. He's more of a natural center in my opinion.

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06-11-2011, 03:09 PM
  #229
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I am a Ranger fan but I come in peace.

Just curious what you guys really think of moving a guy like Carter. Specifically, I am talking about the idea of signing someone to a long term contract and then trading them away only a couple of years into the deal.

As a Rangers fan, I am very aware of turning players away. I remember Neil Smith was able to sign Ray Ferraro in the late 90's after telling him he would not be traded, only to trade him away less than a year into a 3 yr deal. Ferraro has true hate for the Rangers to this day for it.

I don't look at the Redden thing the same way as he was given an atrocious amount of money. Carter, on the other hand, signed a huge deal that was good for both he and the team. Philly, like New York, is a desirous destination for free agents, but do you think trading Carter would have an ill-effect on future free agents considering your team...

I know I am very concerned with how Sather will handle the Ranger's "Dreary" situation...

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06-11-2011, 03:18 PM
  #230
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I have also thought about that, you are not alone. It could have a serious effect on the reputation that the flyers have. We are considered one of the best FA locations to go.

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06-11-2011, 03:24 PM
  #231
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Section32 View Post
I am a Ranger fan but I come in peace.

Just curious what you guys really think of moving a guy like Carter. Specifically, I am talking about the idea of signing someone to a long term contract and then trading them away only a couple of years into the deal.

As a Rangers fan, I am very aware of turning players away. I remember Neil Smith was able to sign Ray Ferraro in the late 90's after telling him he would not be traded, only to trade him away less than a year into a 3 yr deal. Ferraro has true hate for the Rangers to this day for it.

I don't look at the Redden thing the same way as he was given an atrocious amount of money. Carter, on the other hand, signed a huge deal that was good for both he and the team. Philly, like New York, is a desirous destination for free agents, but do you think trading Carter would have an ill-effect on future free agents considering your team...

I know I am very concerned with how Sather will handle the Ranger's "Dreary" situation...
I guess it depends entirely upon what the player himself thinks about the situation. What if the player just wanted an 11 year deal with a NTC so that he could buy a home and settle down somewhere, but his heart wasn't stuck on Philadelphia, and he knew at the signing of the deal that there was a chance he would be traded before his NTC kicked in?

Whether or not it should hurt the Flyers image as a player friendly destination all depends on what Jeff Carter's take on all of it is.

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06-11-2011, 03:36 PM
  #232
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Originally Posted by Section32 View Post
I am a Ranger fan but I come in peace.

Just curious what you guys really think of moving a guy like Carter. Specifically, I am talking about the idea of signing someone to a long term contract and then trading them away only a couple of years into the deal.

As a Rangers fan, I am very aware of turning players away. I remember Neil Smith was able to sign Ray Ferraro in the late 90's after telling him he would not be traded, only to trade him away less than a year into a 3 yr deal. Ferraro has true hate for the Rangers to this day for it.

I don't look at the Redden thing the same way as he was given an atrocious amount of money. Carter, on the other hand, signed a huge deal that was good for both he and the team. Philly, like New York, is a desirous destination for free agents, but do you think trading Carter would have an ill-effect on future free agents considering your team...

I know I am very concerned with how Sather will handle the Ranger's "Dreary" situation...
Want to know the truth?

I think I really hate the entire situation for a number of reasons...

Despite the fact that everyone around here (admittedly myself as well) gets somewhat giddy over the idea of some new, extremely talented players added to our organization, whether because we just like "meeting/welcome" new people to the team or because we're so starved for prospects that it's effecting our every day interpretation of hockey, there are some really significant issues with trading away Carter.

1) He is part of a young core that has created this team, this very team you've watched since 2007-08. Regardless of whether the fans on this forum have any loyalty to him, there are players in this locker room that definitely do. It could create some chemistry issues or even cause others (Captain Cannon included) to become less happy with their situation in Philadelphia.

2) Carter is a statistical leader for us at even strength (both offensively and defensively) and a top 5 goal-scorer in the NHL (care to argue? check his numbers over the last 3 years.) He's our only center with size, he's our best player (now that Betts' shoulder is hurt) at faceoffs, and he's not NEARLY as soft as everyone suggest. Not trainwrecking people like Richards and Giroux does not make someone soft. Carter may not be the best along the boards, but he uses his size well, particularly in front of the net. He bodies up other players. Not to mention he's probably the most underrated forward defensively on HFboards. I can't count how many people act shocked when Flyers' fans tell them that Carter is actually very good defensively.

3) Organizational reputation. This falls under the 3rd biggest problem involving a Carter trade, and it certainly is a huge problem even if not as big as the other two. While it sort of falls into the category of number 1, you have to realize that this is going to effect our standing overall in the NHL. We're pretty lucky to have the kind of draw, atmosphere, and organization that we have in Philadelphia. As fans, we are part of what makes Philadelphia a great place to play even if our media does its best to negate that. We also have a professional organization that has always remained committed to our own. Why do you think we see so many of our players returning to office positions and coaching positions? This is an organization of Flyers, not just a team. That's something you never want to tarnish. I think we take it for granted sometimes, but it gets us a lot of pull on the market as well.

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06-11-2011, 03:58 PM
  #233
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I also think the actual specific player has a lot to do with it.

The Rangers signed Stephane Quintal to "another" ridiculous contract and all the guy did was wear tight, back leather pants and talk of his love for Montreal...they graciously sent him back...

Not worried about a player of "that" status. Nevertheless, I think of a player like Drury, who was a lifelong Rangers fan, and someone who I think gets it that his contract far outweighs what he can offer on the ice. He is still getting paid and will probably go to another team for a couple of years to finish his career- maybe yours??? and will likely come back to haunt the Garden...

I would think he understands and accepts.

However, I don't know about Carter-(thus this post)- I read all about other players and their wives...not poking here...is he a "loved" team player or is he more of a loner-oddball...as a player he is "respected" by opponents, but does his character come into play with your team's call?...

I think the individual situation goes a long way into how other free agents and star players "on the block" with NTC's, effects their ultimate decisions...at least I like to think that way as a big market-team fan.

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06-11-2011, 04:04 PM
  #234
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Originally Posted by Section32 View Post
I also think the actual specific player has a lot to do with it.

The Rangers signed Stephane Quintal to "another" ridiculous contract and all the guy did was wear tight, back leather pants and talk of his love for Montreal...they graciously sent him back...

Not worried about a player of "that" status. Nevertheless, I think of a player like Drury, who was a lifelong Rangers fan, and someone who I think gets it that his contract far outweighs what he can offer on the ice. He is still getting paid and will probably go to another team for a couple of years to finish his career- maybe yours??? and will likely come back to haunt the Garden...

I would think he understands and accepts.

However, I don't know about Carter-(thus this post)- I read all about other players and their wives...not poking here...is he a "loved" team player or is he more of a loner-oddball...as a player he is "respected" by opponents, but does his character come into play with your team's call?...

I think the individual situation goes a long way into how other free agents and star players "on the block" with NTC's, effects their ultimate decisions...at least I like to think that way as a big market-team fan.
With the amount that Carter is seen in pictures at events with the young core of this team, there is absolutely no chance he is a loner or oddball.

In fact, I honestly believe he and Richards are both the leaders of this team, not Pronger or Timonen or anyone else even though they might weigh in from time to time.

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06-11-2011, 04:05 PM
  #235
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Originally Posted by Chris Shafer View Post
In fact, I honestly believe he and Richards are both the leaders of this team, not Pronger or Timonen or anyone else even though they might weigh in from time to time.
FWIW, being social and being a leader are very different things.

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06-11-2011, 04:12 PM
  #236
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FWIW, being social and being a leader are very different things.
Never said they weren't, but I really believe Carter has more of a leadership role in the locker room than many believe.

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06-11-2011, 05:55 PM
  #237
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Never said they weren't, but I really believe Carter has more of a leadership role in the locker room than many believe.
Just curious but what gives you that impression about Carter? For better or worse, I don't live in the area so I'm not able to listen to anything that's said on the radio about the team or by the players.

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06-12-2011, 04:32 PM
  #238
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Originally Posted by JABEE View Post
I'd also like to add that CBJ GM was on Oiler's Lunch yesterday. They are on Team 1260 an Edmonton Sports Station. He was talking about how it is very difficult to attract any free agents to Columbus. He was saying that players he is looking to trade for should have years left on their contract. It sounded exactly like the kind of trade you'd make for Carter. Something tells me that he is going to offer a lot for him. It should be mentioned though that in an earlier interview I think Elliotte Friedman says that the Flyers and Carter had a verbal promise not to trade him. At the end of hour one there is an interview with Bryzgalov's agent Rich Winter.
June 10th Hour 2 has the Howson interview and Friedman saying Carter had Verbal agreement with team not to trade him.
http://www.theteam1260.com/podcasts/oilerslunch.aspx
Meh, even if they told him that, there's nothing stopping them from trading him. That would be a dick move, but its business.

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06-12-2011, 04:54 PM
  #239
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Never said they weren't, but I really believe Carter has more of a leadership role in the locker room than many believe.
That speaks poorly of Richards and Carter. The team comes out flat down the stretch and in the playoffs, that's pretty poor leadership. In fact if those two are the leaders that seems like a very good reason to trade one of them IMO.

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06-12-2011, 04:57 PM
  #240
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That speaks poorly of Richards and Carter. The team comes out flat down the stretch and in the playoffs, that's pretty poor leadership. In fact if those two are the leaders that seems like a very good reason to trade one of them IMO.
Yeah. Also don't worry, Pronger is infallible. [/typical HF response]

What's the excuse for Briere/Hartnell/Pronger/Timonen/Coburn/Carle for falling flat then? Each of those guys is the same age or older than Richards and Carter. They shouldn't be relying on those two to pick them up down the stretch.

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06-12-2011, 05:11 PM
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Yeah. Also don't worry, Pronger is infallible. [/typical HF response]

What's the excuse for Briere/Hartnell/Pronger/Timonen/Coburn/Carle for falling flat then? Each of those guys is the same age or older than Richards and Carter. They shouldn't be relying on those two to pick them up down the stretch.
Don't forget Lavi and the coaching staff.

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06-12-2011, 05:16 PM
  #242
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That speaks poorly of Richards and Carter. The team comes out flat down the stretch and in the playoffs, that's pretty poor leadership. In fact if those two are the leaders that seems like a very good reason to trade one of them IMO.
Oh Em Gee, Dude!

It's so clear to me now. Injuries, match-ups, and coaching have nothing to do with the outcome of the postseason, it's all based on Richards' and Carter's pregame speeches to their teammates. They didn't inspire the team enough!

Bench these two losers and hire Herb Brooks.

I mean, Lavi can only punch so many coke machines to make up for the pitfalls of these two until there are no more coke machines to destroy.

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06-12-2011, 06:50 PM
  #243
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Oh Em Gee, Dude!

It's so clear to me now. Injuries, match-ups, and coaching have nothing to do with the outcome of the postseason, it's all based on Richards' and Carter's pregame speeches to their teammates. They didn't inspire the team enough!

Bench these two losers and hire Herb Brooks.

I mean, Lavi can only punch so many coke machines to make up for the pitfalls of these two until there are no more coke machines to destroy.
My point is simply that you don't give them credit for being leaders and then forget about the whole thing when there was a clear failure of leadership.

Of course every player and the whole coaching staff was responsible.

But if Carter and Richards are leaders, and there was a failure of leadership, you don't cite their leader status as a positive.

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06-12-2011, 06:51 PM
  #244
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I like how everyone so quickly forgets how much this team's leadership was being praised 365 days ago.

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06-12-2011, 06:54 PM
  #245
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My point is simply that you don't give them credit for being leaders and then forget about the whole thing when there was a clear failure of leadership.

Of course every player and the whole coaching staff was responsible.

But if Carter and Richards are leaders, and there was a failure of leadership, you don't cite their leader status as a positive.
But I think it's really hypocritical to consider last year's successes as a triumph of leadership and then blame this year's failures as a failure of leadership or some kind of lack of resilience.

Which is it? Are they great leaders or terrible leaders?

I think the course of both Richards' and Carter's careers they have both demonstrated some capacity in this regard, particularly Richards who rightfully wears the "C."

You can't just ignore that every summer after we don't win the Stanley Cup and go, "Clearly we don't have the right leaders on this team. Get rid of them."

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06-12-2011, 06:59 PM
  #246
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I like how everyone so quickly forgets how much this team's leadership was being praised 365 days ago.
I like how everyone overrates leadership/captains. The best leaders are the ones who are on good teams.

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06-12-2011, 07:05 PM
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I like how everyone overrates leadership/captains. The best leaders are the ones who are on good teams.
Leadership isn't something tangible or rateable.

What I see as the evidence of leadership is the ability to hold together a team, win or lose.

Regardless of who you want to give credit to (I believe it to be on Richards and Carter), this team has held together through some significant highs and lows given the amount that they've accomplished, what they have yet to accomplish, and the expectations placed upon their shoulders by not only ourselves as fans but the media en masse.

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06-12-2011, 07:08 PM
  #248
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I don't totally want to go there, but Columbus is home for Jody Shelley. Surely we can find another enforcer for half the price. Eric Godard and Jay Rosehill are free agents.
But he's good in the room...




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06-12-2011, 08:02 PM
  #249
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Never said they weren't, but I really believe Carter has more of a leadership role in the locker room than many believe.
I would hope so. His leadership isn't apparent on the ice yet he dons the "A." I believe he is a leader, but it's not noticed (like you said).

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06-14-2011, 02:08 PM
  #250
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The first talk that homer had with Columbus was not about trading carter it was about trading for Steve Mason then once homer got the rights to Bryzgalov then the rumours started about carter and columbus........

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