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Wolski joins Team Underhill (Boyle returns too)

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06-09-2011, 06:58 PM
  #76
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I feel like Stepan slowed down due to the sheer number of games he played. It's not uncommon for an NCAA player. I don't think he needs Underhill specifically, rather just some continued endurance training.
That's a really good way of looking at it. I'm glad to have still seen him do well, even with being tired. Hopefully he does work on conditioning, he can become a lot more dangerous if he does so.

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06-09-2011, 06:59 PM
  #77
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She is a figure skater. Given figure skaters are better skaters overall, she can help those who missed that part in their childhood, Boyle and Wolski are both from poor families not able to afford a personal skating coach for the kids. Just keep in mind there will be no sticks, pucks and other attributes of routine hockey skating practice there, so value of this thing isn't there for everyone.
It doesn't matter if there's no stickS or pucks. Boyle's game rose to another level because his skating was so much better after working under Underhill.

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06-09-2011, 06:59 PM
  #78
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Power skating allows player to skate with less effort or more efficiently. It is ridiculous to assume that that it is directly beneficial for production.


How is it not directly beneficial? Look no further than Boyle. His improved skating allowed him to get to loose pucks he otherwise would have been beaten to in a foot race by defensemen. His improved skating allowed him to take pucks wide and drive to the net and pull moves he otherwise wasn't attempting very much the previous season. And his improved skating enabled him, without the puck, to skate to areas of the ice to find scoring opportunities that he might not have been to generate in previous seasons.

You said so in your post, that power skating allows less effort to be spent while skating. Well that less effort and improved efficiency directly benefits a player's game out on the ice. He's wasting less energy on the motions of skating which can directly contribute to improved play & increased offensive production in other areas of the ice. Improving your agility on your skates (stopping, turning, pivoting, & balance) can also directly contribute to increased offensive production for forwards.

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06-09-2011, 07:56 PM
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i think with Wolski going and getting skating help and hanging out with Boyle and others, he has found a place that he can be good in. He played well for us in the playoffs when he was given a chance on an actual line that can create offense and i think he was our leading scorer lol. With this comradeship that he seemed to have formed with some players, finally feeling at home, a full training camp under torts, and put him on a line that will create offense (1st line with possibly richards n gaborik.. or put him with stepan and someone else-when he was on that line he had 12pts in 18g) id like to see what he can do next season with us.

Its only for 1 more year and having him, avery, and ec coming off the books itl give us 7m to use during the free agency next year get a guy like Brent Burns or Patrick Sharp, then trade Girardi ++ for a top line player.

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06-09-2011, 08:31 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post


How is it not directly beneficial? Look no further than Boyle. His improved skating allowed him to get to loose pucks he otherwise would have been beaten to in a foot race by defensemen. His improved skating allowed him to take pucks wide and drive to the net and pull moves he otherwise wasn't attempting very much the previous season. And his improved skating enabled him, without the puck, to skate to areas of the ice to find scoring opportunities that he might not have been to generate in previous seasons.
Boyle speed has never been questioned. The guy is 1st rounder. There are no slugs among 30 best 17-18 old in the world.

You need to skate fast backward if you intend to play on bottom 6. You need your agility to retreat faster, not to attack with speed. That's what those lessons were for. Bottom 6 do not score, if they do it's unexpected benefit. They have to play defense most of the shift.

I don't know why Boyle improved. Neither does Boyle or any one else, esp. those quoting Mr Micheletti here as undeniable source of eternal truth.

If lessons helped that should have worked like this: he improved his defensive game by learning all those backward crossovers top 6 forward may never care about -> he got place on the team and guaranteed ice time -> that made him happy and improved his confidence -> he scored some goals that have nothing to do with his skating, but everything to do with his time in BC. That scheme defines indirect benefit of those lessons, if any. If direct benefit was possible every team would use that woman and pay her big $$.

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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
your agility on your skates (stopping, turning, pivoting, & balance) can also directly contribute to increased offensive production for forwards.
You didn't take Power Skating lessons, did you? Take it, money well spent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vDC4z-STGvw&NR=1

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdyXZPH6XTw


Last edited by 94now: 06-09-2011 at 08:52 PM.
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06-09-2011, 08:33 PM
  #81
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That's a really good way of looking at it. I'm glad to have still seen him do well, even with being tired. Hopefully he does work on conditioning, he can become a lot more dangerous if he does so.
This is why I believe it was best for him to start the season in the AHL. But without Stepan, doubt we'd make the playoffs.

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06-09-2011, 08:51 PM
  #82
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Boyle speed has never been questioned. The guy is 1st rounder. There are no slugs among 30 best 17-18 old in the world.
He's a much better skater this past season than he showed us the previous season. He's moving more efficiently. I see him showing better acceleration and he looks stronger on his skates. He even talks about being able to skate at a higher speed with the puck on his stick and having more control over everything.


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I don't know why Boyle improved. Neither does Boyle or any one else, esp. those quoting Mr Micheletti here as undeniable source of eternal truth.
What do you mean you don't know why he improved? He specifically trained and worked on his skating with an informed specialist. Do you think Underhill only taught him about power skating? Did you watch any of the Ranger pre-games? They showed a handful of clips of him working out. She had them working on a variety of things to improve their skating, not just acceleration and speed. She works with an assistant out on the ice filming the guys skating with a camera on a boom, and they compare & contrast it on a laptop to analyze it. They focused on the entire posture of the skaters and look at what they're doing with their arms and their upper-body/back while they skate.


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If lessons helped that should have worked like this: he improved his defensive game by learning all those backward crossovers top 6 forward may never care about -> he got place on the team and guaranteed ice time -> that made him happy and improved his confidence -> he scored some goals that have nothing to do with his skating, but everything to do with his time in BC. That scheme defines indirect benefit of those lessons, if any. .
Please dude, he scored some goals that had nothing to do with his skating? So those goals where he used his improved skating to drive wide around defenders and go to the net had nothing to do with it right? If you did not notice Boyle's improved skating in all areas this season in comparison to the last, I don't know what to say.

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If direct benefit was possible every team would use that woman and pay her big $$
You think she's only worked with the Rangers & Whale before? She was the skating coach for the Guelph Storm of the OHL as well. Not every player is going to have the same potential to improve to the degree that Boyle did, even Underhill talks about his unused "potential" that she noticed when she first started working with him. Not every player is going to have the same potential to improve the way Boyle did... He's a big bodied guy with a lot of power in his frame and he wasn't very efficient with his skating technique prior to focusing on it with a skating specialist. Some players don't need that much improvement in their stride as Boyle did and not all players are going to have the strength and athleticism to show as much improvement once they put that work in.

Quote:
You didn't take Power Skating lessons, did you? Take it, money well spent.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JdyXZPH6XTw
Did I say those were elements of power skating? Those are elements of your skating that you can improve that directly contribute to results out on the ice.


Last edited by wolfgaze: 06-09-2011 at 09:11 PM.
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06-09-2011, 11:37 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by nyr2k2 View Post
I feel like Stepan slowed down due to the sheer number of games he played. It's not uncommon for an NCAA player. I don't think he needs Underhill specifically, rather just some continued endurance training.
agreed DS hit the wall and was on fumes come playoff time

having said that I think any professional player can always use some additional coaching.

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06-10-2011, 08:20 AM
  #84
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
He's a much better skater this past season than he showed us the previous season. He's moving more efficiently. I see him showing better acceleration and he looks stronger on his skates.
Where did I disagree with that? In fact I agree with everything you posted. The thing is your post is unrelated to my point. Yes, Boyle has became a better player, but my point was a better player and a better scorer are not the same terms. Better scorers do not play 4C in this league.
It was about WW, not Boyle , wasn't it? Wolski is a top 6 point producer. The only reason he would take those lessons is to become a better overall player, his production declined not because of poor skating technique and it will not magically come back because of those lessons. Skating helps, but the main difference between excellent scorer and occasional opportunist is an ability to beat the goalie. Rangers have problem with that skill.

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06-10-2011, 12:08 PM
  #85
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Where did I disagree with that? In fact I agree with everything you posted. The thing is your post is unrelated to my point. Yes, Boyle has became a better player, but my point was a better player and a better scorer are not the same terms. Better scorers do not play 4C in this league.
If you look at how Torts distributed ice time to the lines, it's clear that Feds - Boyle - Prust were not our 4th line this past season. They were played/utilized like a 1st or 2nd line.

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It was about WW, not Boyle , wasn't it? Wolski is a top 6 point producer. The only reason he would take those lessons is to become a better overall player, his production declined not because of poor skating technique and it will not magically come back because of those lessons. Skating helps, but the main difference between excellent scorer and occasional opportunist is an ability to beat the goalie. Rangers have problem with that skill.
I did not insinuate that Wolski will have similar results as Boyle. I'm all for Wolski doing whatever training in the pre-season that gives him more confidence about his game.

I still disagree with you and contest that Boyle's improved skating directly contributed to increased scoring chances this past season which led to increase offensive production.

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06-10-2011, 12:31 PM
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Where did I disagree with that? In fact I agree with everything you posted. The thing is your post is unrelated to my point. Yes, Boyle has became a better player, but my point was a better player and a better scorer are not the same terms. Better scorers do not play 4C in this league.
It was about WW, not Boyle , wasn't it? Wolski is a top 6 point producer. The only reason he would take those lessons is to become a better overall player, his production declined not because of poor skating technique and it will not magically come back because of those lessons. Skating helps, but the main difference between excellent scorer and occasional opportunist is an ability to beat the goalie. Rangers have problem with that skill.
Boyle became a better scorer, not just a better player. It's because he was more consistently able to put himself into the positions he needs to be in to be a better scorer and he was able to do that because the improvements in his skating. The Rangers have problems with scoring positioning as much as finishing when the puck is on their sticks. I think that the idea here with Wolski has gotta be the same thing. Improving his skating *could* improve all aspects of his game, from his defensive ability to his scoring ability. Quicker in on the forecheck, quicker to the net, quicker to the open areas of the ice, quicker on the backcheck, quicker in closing the gap. It's all the same idea. He's doing this to become a better player on both ends of the ice, not just to be a better defensive player as you claimed earlier in the thread. Whether it works remains to be seen, but I like the commitment to improvement that Wolski is displaying.

Underhill is not going to be hired by a guy to teach him how to do back crossovers.

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06-10-2011, 12:32 PM
  #87
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
If you look at how Torts distributed ice time to the lines, it's clear that Feds - Boyle - Prust were not our 4th line this past season. They were played/utilized like a 1st or 2nd line.
Okay they were 3rd line. They were shutdown line similar to Betts line purpose. It is funny how Torts quietly adopted Renney hockey. Much better players, yet same shutdown role wich is bottom 6 line regardless on how much time spent on ice. Thus, skating lessons did not help Boyle to remain top 6 player and that's okay with me, BTW. I am well documented fan of bottom 6 sans some rough things, I am glad Prust fights no more.
To score you need to work your stick. That is why assistant coaches work on that with thier players every day or so. In the off season it's okay to take skating lessons, but then you have to go back to stick with assistant.

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I still disagree with you and contest that Boyle's improved skating directly contributed to increased scoring chances this past season which led to increase offensive production.
We have to leave it at that.

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06-10-2011, 01:17 PM
  #88
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IMO, Drury should be bought out before Wolski. Wolski still provides offense, despite how streaky he may be. The fact that he's working on his skating indicates he has the desire to improve his play. Not like a Zherdev type who couldn't give a **** about getting better. These are the types of guys we want on the team.
When you come home from a long day of smacking your *****, you try to work on hockey skills!

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06-10-2011, 01:50 PM
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Underhill is not going to be hired by a guy to teach him how to do back crossovers.
She is teaching how to do back crossovers better, i.e. weight transfer, use of outer edge, etc. So she does just that. I took the class many times (male coach was the difference), it's very useful.
However, if you unable to place the shot between the goalie shoulder and the crossbar on most tries you not going to be more productive. You have skate well to win, but you do not have to skate well to score. Dino Cicerelly is a good example.

I didn't quote the rest of your post as I disagree with every single sentence there. I believe Boyle improved most likely because his time has come.

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06-10-2011, 01:51 PM
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Boyle became a better scorer, not just a better player. It's because he was more consistently able to put himself into the positions he needs to be in to be a better scorer and he was able to do that because the improvements in his skating. The Rangers have problems with scoring positioning as much as finishing when the puck is on their sticks. I think that the idea here with Wolski has gotta be the same thing. Improving his skating *could* improve all aspects of his game, from his defensive ability to his scoring ability. Quicker in on the forecheck, quicker to the net, quicker to the open areas of the ice, quicker on the backcheck, quicker in closing the gap. It's all the same idea. He's doing this to become a better player on both ends of the ice, not just to be a better defensive player as you claimed earlier in the thread. Whether it works remains to be seen, but I like the commitment to improvement that Wolski is displaying.

Underhill is not going to be hired by a guy to teach him how to do back crossovers.
Agreed, basically what I was trying to communicate earlier but you elaborated on it nicely.

I recall a handful of occasions this past season where Stepan was transporting the puck through the neutral zone, but was disrupted by a back-checking forward because he did not have enough speed carrying the puck. If he can improve his skating and find that extra gear, that's a great example of how improved skating will directly impact a play on the ice that has the potential to lead to a scoring opportunity that otherwise might not have materialized.

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06-10-2011, 02:02 PM
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Originally Posted by wolfgaze View Post
I recall a handful of occasions this past season where Stepan was transporting the puck through the neutral zone, but was disrupted by a back-checking forward because he did not have enough speed carrying the puck. If he can improve his skating and find that extra gear, that's a great example of how improved skating will directly impact a play on the ice that has the potential to lead to a scoring opportunity that otherwise might not have materialized.
Better conditioning gives you much more gears than any skating lessons. Let me put it this way: if backchecker is better conditioned he will be faster regardless of imperfect stride. The skating lessons do not contribute to conditioning as much as aerobic programs and weights combo. The time spent on conditioning instead of lessons may yield a better results. That is why most players work in the jim during the summer.
Steps should and will work out this summer and he will be much faster as is.

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06-10-2011, 02:08 PM
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Better conditioning gives you much more gears than any skating lessons. Let me put it this way: if backchecker is better conditioned he will be faster regardless of imperfect stride. The skating lessons do not contribute to conditioning as much as aerobic programs and weights combo. The time spent on conditioning instead of lessons may yield a better results. That is why most players work in the jim during the summer.
Steps should and will work out this summer and he will be much faster as is.
But just looking at Derek skate, you can quickly tell he's not the most efficient skater and does not have great acceleration... If he were to train on his skating form & technique AND improve his conditioning, the results would pay dividends.

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06-10-2011, 02:11 PM
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Better conditioning gives you much more gears than any skating lessons. Let me put it this way: if backchecker is better conditioned he will be faster regardless of imperfect stride. The skating lessons do not contribute to conditioning as much as aerobic programs and weights combo. The time spent on conditioning instead of lessons may yield a better results. That is why most players work in the jim during the summer.
Steps should and will work out this summer and he will be much faster as is.
but this should be done in additional to the regular conditioning and off-ice training, not instead of it. so your point is moot. you keep harping on this like you think that because they are spending a couple hours a week skating with her that means they won't see the inside of a gym for 3 months.

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06-10-2011, 02:12 PM
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and improving your skating technique can also help your conditioning from the standpoint that you don't need to exert as much energy to go the same speed as you did before and as a result don't tire as easily

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06-10-2011, 02:21 PM
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but this should be done in additional to the regular conditioning and off-ice training, not instead of it. so your point is moot. you keep harping on this like you think that because they are spending a couple hours a week skating with her that means they won't see the inside of a gym for 3 months.
Lessons alone do not cut it, you have to parctice on your own i.e. do your home work, so by the time of next lesson you can show you can go forward. Usual things. So it is more than a few hours a week. And it is taking away the time you do not have. Hockey is a full year employment.
Don't get me wrong, I am not against it. I am just disagree with excitement some fans expressed assuming that skating will definitely make Wolski a 30 goal guy again. It is not DIRECT at best. That's it.

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06-10-2011, 05:33 PM
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Lessons alone do not cut it, you have to parctice on your own i.e. do your home work, so by the time of next lesson you can show you can go forward. Usual things. So it is more than a few hours a week. And it is taking away the time you do not have. Hockey is a full year employment.
Don't get me wrong, I am not against it. I am just disagree with excitement some fans expressed assuming that skating will definitely make Wolski a 30 goal guy again. It is not DIRECT at best. That's it.
People expressed that this will make him a 30-goal guy again? The most I'm hoping for is that it will make him a more consistent player.

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06-10-2011, 11:36 PM
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But just looking at Derek skate, you can quickly tell he's not the most efficient skater and does not have great acceleration... If he were to train on his skating form & technique AND improve his conditioning, the results would pay dividends.
He's alright. Stepan transition from lads to men is going just fine. He needs to get stronger, improve his stamina. That will give him a take offs he may be lacking. He doesn't need to skate fast backwards at this point in time of his career. Wolski may have to.

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06-11-2011, 12:51 AM
  #98
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There is no reason Stepan can't improve his stride this summer.

Its not that complicated and its not so time consuming that he can't hit the weights.

I did it in middle school. Had a similar issue with short strides.

Two weeks at Providence College and my stride was corrected.

There's no excuse for a professional athlete not finding the time during his offseason to improve on all areas that need improving.

He has four months to improve his skating, strength, and conditioning.

Plenty of time for that and a social life.

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06-11-2011, 02:25 AM
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what I am really hoping is that Boyle gets some faceoff practice so he can improve on his draws.

With his skating and size added to better faceoffs I see him as a kind of Joel Otto. He played a ton for NY last season in all facets of the game.

Is 50% too much to ask

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06-11-2011, 12:32 PM
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Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
There is no reason Stepan can't improve his stride this summer.

Its not that complicated and its not so time consuming that he can't hit the weights.

I did it in middle school. Had a similar issue with short strides.

Two weeks at Providence College and my stride was corrected.

There's no excuse for a professional athlete not finding the time during his offseason to improve on all areas that need improving.

He has four months to improve his skating, strength, and conditioning.

Plenty of time for that and a social life.
Keep in mind that just because he's not training with Barb (if it's not announced) doesn't mean he's not working on his skating.

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