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Jeff Carter to LA Kings

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Old
06-08-2011, 10:27 PM
  #126
MisterT
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
Nah. No edge guy. There are too many teams that would love to add a proven 40+ goal scorer that is very young and locked up long term. Chi showed last year that they won't give away players. You need to pay fair value.
I'd disagree as Chicago's trades where they got better value than expected were primarily with two teams that had GMs with ties to Chicago and a bias towards players on the Chicago roster that they had a hand in acquiring or developing. I've heard this called the "Keenan Factor" and this is a recipe for failure.

This is not going to arise with Carter but I do see the likely landing spots for him being one of Toronto, Columbus and Edmonton. LA will make a run after Richards and in my humble opinion, the Kings suit him very well.

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Old
06-08-2011, 10:28 PM
  #127
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Originally Posted by Jakomyte View Post
I don't understand Kings fans on this one. Sure, Schenn is a great prospect, but its Jeff Carter. People are complaining that he's not a 'proven 40-goal scorer', but take a look at the top goal scorers of the past 3 years:

1) Ovechkin - 32, 50, 56 - 138
2) Stamkos - 45, 51, 23 - 119
3) Marleau - 37, 44, 38 - 119
4) Crosby - 32, 51, 33 - 116
T5) Carter - 36, 33, 46 - 115
T5) Kovalchuk - 31, 41, 43 - 115

Los Angeles has been rebuilding forever and want to contend now. Having Carter/Kopitar/Stoll down the middle is the kind of depth a team needs to contend. Losing Schenn hurts, but he is still at least 2-3 years away from reaching his potential, which is likely not as good as Carter.

There are two reasons to draft well: to develop great players to play for your team AND to to develop great assets that you can use to make your team better at the right time.
also, Carter is the only one on that list that doesn't get 1st unit PP time.

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Old
06-08-2011, 10:51 PM
  #128
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Originally Posted by MisterT View Post
I'd disagree as Chicago's trades where they got better value than expected were primarily with two teams that had GMs with ties to Chicago and a bias towards players on the Chicago roster that they had a hand in acquiring or developing. I've heard this called the "Keenan Factor" and this is a recipe for failure.

This is not going to arise with Carter but I do see the likely landing spots for him being one of Toronto, Columbus and Edmonton. LA will make a run after Richards and in my humble opinion, the Kings suit him very well.
If you're referring to the Flyers' Richards, that run will be very brief. As in, "no need to even tie the laces on your sneakers before you start" brief.

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Old
06-08-2011, 10:55 PM
  #129
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Simmonds, 2012 1st, Stoll and Voynov/Hickey for Carter and Carcillo.

Penner-Kopitar-Carter
Smyth-Schenn-Williams
Parse-Lewis-Brown
Clifford-Richardson-Carcillo
Westgarth

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Old
06-08-2011, 10:56 PM
  #130
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Simmonds, 2012 1st, Stoll and Hickey for Carter and Carcillo.

Penner-Kopitar-Carter
Smyth-Schenn-Williams
Parse-Lewis-Brown
Clifford-Richardson-Carcillo
Westgarth
pipe dream

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Old
06-08-2011, 10:58 PM
  #131
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Originally Posted by bobafettish View Post
pipe dream
Most likely is indeed, but this is all a pipe dream anyways.

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Old
06-08-2011, 10:59 PM
  #132
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Simmonds, 2012 1st, Stoll and Voynov/Hickey for Carter and Carcillo.

Penner-Kopitar-Carter
Smyth-Schenn-Williams
Parse-Lewis-Brown
Clifford-Richardson-Carcillo
Westgarth
Why Carcillo when we have Westgarth?

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Old
06-08-2011, 11:11 PM
  #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SimmondsSensation View Post
Why Carcillo when we have Westgarth?
Carcillo allows Clifford to actually play the game when he's in the lineup and not worry about fighting every other game.

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Old
06-09-2011, 08:44 AM
  #134
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Carter seems like one of the last players Lombardi would trade for, especially after the Penner mess thus far.

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Old
06-09-2011, 10:27 AM
  #135
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like falling off a horse

you will never learn how to ride if you do not give it another shot. Carter is exactly what we need, Penner was done out of desperation.Carter a head case or not is better than Penner, easily.Versteeg is super quick, Dean himself said we needed that.

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Old
06-09-2011, 10:30 AM
  #136
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Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Simmonds, 2012 1st, Stoll and Voynov/Hickey for Carter and Carcillo.

Penner-Kopitar-Carter
Smyth-Schenn-Williams
Parse-Lewis-Brown
Clifford-Richardson-Carcillo
Westgarth
Huge pass.

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Old
06-09-2011, 10:47 AM
  #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reaper45 View Post
Simmonds, 2012 1st, Stoll and Voynov/Hickey for Carter and Carcillo.

Penner-Kopitar-Carter
Smyth-Schenn-Williams
Parse-Lewis-Brown
Clifford-Richardson-Carcillo
Westgarth
I'm not going to lie, I like this trade alot. I'd even add Loktionov to that and my lineup would look alot different than yours.

Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Smyth-Carter-Brown
Clifford-Schenn-Lewis
Richardson-Lewis-Carcillo/Westgarth

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Old
06-09-2011, 11:00 AM
  #138
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
Been around hockey for the better part of 40 years now. Can't bet on anything guy but I will put greater chances on a skilled guy that can show he can do it to one that has never done it. Carter actually plays the whole ice-I don't think you know that. I'm not going to go on here. Hockey people realize his value regardless if you can't get your head around it or not.

This is a guy you all should listen to. He actually knows what he's talking about.

Stop talking semantics about "40 goal scorer" or not. The last 2 years the Flyers have really screwed with Jeff Carter, taking him away from the middle, putting him on the wing, playing him in a defensive role at even strength with Mike Richards, and NOT letting him open up his offensive game. Why do you guys think that Ovi's goal scoring was so low this year??? He scored just 32 goals this year. Before this year he was below 50 goals just once and averaged 54 goals a season. It's because he started playing a COMPLETE game in the defensive zone too and personal stats were less important than the team. This is what the Flyers have asked of Jeff Carter the last 2 years. He also doesn't play on the 1st PP unit either.

The truth is that IF the Flyers (or another team if he's traded) were to just throw him out their on their top scoring line, give him top PP time, and NOT himder him by putting him up against guys like Crosby/Ovi and expect him to focus on shutting them down first, Carter will likely pot 40+ goals regardless of who his line mates are (he did 46 with Hartnell and Lupul). 2 years ago Briere was out for like the entire season and Jeff Carter CARRIED our offense. He faced EVERY teams top defensive pairing and shut-down line and he STILL was unstoppable (until Fleury stood on his head in the playoffs).

I don't want Versteeg traded and I don't want Carter traded. Versteeg gives Richards a damned good 2-way winger releaving us of having to play either JVR or Carter on Mikes wing (Carter and JVR SHOULD be on offensive lines only, not restricted by playing on shut-down lines). Briere needs to move back out to the wing and Carter needs to be put back in the middle. Hartnell, Leino and Carle all need to go. The rest of the guys need to stay. Personally, I'd take a bag of pucks for each of those 3 guys if it meant I could keep the rest as I want it but we will definitely get more for them all.

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Old
06-09-2011, 12:14 PM
  #139
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Originally Posted by AKAY47 View Post
I'm not going to lie, I like this trade alot. I'd even add Loktionov to that and my lineup would look alot different than yours.

Penner-Kopitar-Williams
Smyth-Carter-Brown
Clifford-Schenn-Lewis
Richardson-Lewis-Carcillo/Westgarth
Forgetting, Philly has to agree to the deal. Which from me, we don't.

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Old
06-09-2011, 12:18 PM
  #140
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There is not a single chance that Schenn moves anywhere

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Old
06-09-2011, 03:44 PM
  #141
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There is not a single chance that Schenn moves anywhere
That's what they said about Gretzky and a whole host of other players and Schenn right now is just a top PROSPECT.

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06-09-2011, 03:49 PM
  #142
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
That's what they said about Gretzky and a whole host of other players and Schenn right now is just a top PROSPECT.
That's getting old. There was a reason why Gretzky was traded. Beyond that, Schenn CAN be had for the right peace, i'd assume Lombardi will hold onto his prized prospect for a player that is just impossible to pass up, a 1st line left winger.

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Old
06-09-2011, 04:01 PM
  #143
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That's getting old. There was a reason why Gretzky was traded. Beyond that, Schenn CAN be had for the right peace, i'd assume Lombardi will hold onto his prized prospect for a player that is just impossible to pass up, a 1st line left winger.
I know but so was Messier, Bourque, Gilmour, Hull, Niewendyk, nobody ever thought Niedermayer would play anywhere else other than NJ, Lindros, Luongo(3 times), Sundin(Que), Chelios(Mont), Cam Neely......I can go one forever here. Everyone is movable. Schenn is a great young prospect but a prospect. It is my belief he can be a front line player: just my belief. Can he be as good as Carter? Maybe Can he be a special player that can carry a franchise? Doubtful so you never know. If Lombardi is offered Carter but Schenn has to be part of the deal-he will never be offered a better player and the kid may never reach the level that Carter is at now. I think Schenn is a good player but not immovable. Very few in the last ten years would be in that category and he is not one of them.

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Old
06-09-2011, 06:26 PM
  #144
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Originally Posted by KingsCourt View Post
If...BIG IF...the kings can get Carter, without giving DD, AK, JQ, JJ...u do it!
EXACTLY!

I'd have no problem moving Schenn, Muzzin and a 1st rd pick in 2012 for a goal scorer like Carter who is young and signed to a long low cap hit deal.

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Old
06-09-2011, 07:06 PM
  #145
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If the centerpiece of a deal for Carter is Schenn, I don't think Lombardi thinks about it twice. A prospect, even a very good one, for a player who is going to be one of the best on your team immediately? You don't get a Carter for a piece that doesn't sting to give away. If Loktionov works out in a year or two, maybe you have Carter on either his or Kopitar's wing and you have yourself the makings of a pretty potent offense. Honestly, I would prefer trading Schenn for Carter than picking up Brad Richards as a UFA. Both great players, but when you take into consideration Carter's cap hit and age, he is just about exactly what the Kings need.

I'm giong to go drool now.

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06-09-2011, 08:48 PM
  #146
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Some Kings fans on this board are crazy, I'd give up a combination of 2 or 3 pieces from the whole organization not named Kopitar or Doughty.

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06-09-2011, 09:23 PM
  #147
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Originally Posted by daveleaf View Post
Some guys don't get it.
And during crunch time Carter chokes..

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06-09-2011, 09:25 PM
  #148
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Originally Posted by CupofOil View Post
That's ridiculous. Some Kings fans overrate Schenn incredibly and this is an example of that. You don't consider Jeff Carter to be a part of a blockbuster deal?
Carter is a proven 40 goal scorer (the Kings biggest weakness is goal scoring) who is 6'3, is young and is locked up for a long time and you wouldn't include Schenn in a deal for Carter?
Carter might be 6"3", but He plays like He's 5'9".

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06-09-2011, 09:33 PM
  #149
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Carter might be 6"3", but He plays like He's 5'9".
A lot of Carter's chances come from his speed and using his big frame to shield off others. He's not the biggest hitter, but to say he doesn't use his size is folly.

He's a very fast 6'3 center who is decent at faceoffs, great goalscorer, and is quite a good 2-way forward. He can play in any situation, Center or Wing, PP or PK.

I really hope the Flyers don't trade him, unless its a landslide of a trade.

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Old
06-09-2011, 09:40 PM
  #150
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Penner+prospects/picks.


LA fans must be on crack if they want to give up Schenn thats ridiculous. Carter is good but hes worth his 5.3 salary no more no less and you don't get any toughness or intangibles.

I like him enough to trade Tim Thomas for him too. But for LA hes just worth a guy like Penner and picks, maybe 1/2 guys like Richardson, Simmonds, or Lewis. Your just getting a Penner who doesn't absolutely suck and is almost as soft. If LA wants him they can get him easy. Holmgren probably respects Carter enough to prefer giving him to a Western team IMO if deals are similar. Lombardi probably holds off because Penner was such a horrible move and ruins the amazing work he's been doing loading the franchise up with young talent.

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