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Pronger to STL

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Old
06-08-2011, 04:54 PM
  #26
LeafsFan2342
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Originally Posted by Jzk View Post
It really isn't.

That said I'd give up Shattenkirk+Oshie and maybe a first. That's about the best deal you'd get from STL.
Well that wouldnt be very smart, now would it? Shattenkirk is a great upcoming offensive defensemen and Oshie will be a great 1st line centre in less than a year and on top of that youd throw in a 1st to get Chris Pronger? A 36-year-old defensemen who can barely skate and is coming off knee surgery which will make him even slower and less mobile and who IMO is about 1-2 years from retirement? That would surely comeback to screw the Blues in about a year or two.

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06-08-2011, 05:00 PM
  #27
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Originally Posted by Jzk View Post
It's a tough trade to make for an older player but Pronger is the type of player the Blues are missing.
At 36 years old, I would not mortgage the future. He is also not at the level we saw when he played in STL, nor do I think the Blues become a Cup contender with him in the lineup...especially at the likely expense.


Last edited by Celtic Note: 06-08-2011 at 05:22 PM. Reason: Proofreading
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06-08-2011, 05:06 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
Now, that's going to be fun!



No and No.




So, which kind of Doctor are you exactly?
Are you a sports and back specialist?
I'm just asking because it's pretty impressive for you to know all that stuff that is going to happen with Pronger.




Problem is that Pietrangelo wouldn't be with the Blues anymore.
And Pronger's salary this upcoming season is $7.6mil, the season after this it's $7.2mil, then it's $7.0mil, then $4mil and then two years of $525k.
Yeah, he's kinda signed longterm...




I like how you say too much.
Have you seen him play the last two years?
For some reason I misread his contract. In that case the Blues can't take him on. They couldn't afford to pay him that and give up the required assets.


Last edited by Celtic Note: 06-08-2011 at 05:22 PM. Reason: Clarity
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06-08-2011, 05:08 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by Jzk View Post
It really isn't.

That said I'd give up Shattenkirk+Oshie and maybe a first. That's about the best deal you'd get from STL.
You forgot the blue font. I wouldn't give up any of those pieces straight up for Pronger.

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06-08-2011, 05:08 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by Jzk View Post
Pronger on the Blues at the cost of Oshie and Shattenkirk makes them contenders now. How is that a stupid trade? Or are you one of those guys that thinks the Blues will be able to keep every single one of the home grown talent forever?
I wouldn't do that trade, either. I don't think many Blues fans would.

I see Oshie as a 70 pt forward (with a very good two way game, physicality, intangibles, etc.) and Shattenkirk as a 40+ point two way defenseman down the road a few years. I wouldn't trade either one individually for Pronger right now, much less both. He still has a lot of value, but the poster that said he's a shell of what he once was is right as well. For a team on the cusp like Philly what he brings is almost irreplaceable. For a team like the Blues, it's not nearly enough for what it would cost to get him from a team like Philly.

I agree with the other poster that the Blues are really still a few years away from being serious Cup contenders. My expectations for them are to see them make the playoffs next year, make a deep run the year after that, and be a force the year after that. Trying to hasten that timeframe is possible, but only by seriously undercutting the length of time that the Blues will be competitive.

Eventually, as you imply, some home grown talent will have to go...but that's not going to be for quite some time. The Blues can hold onto pretty much every young talent they have for the better part of the next five years without breaking a financial sweat. Over that time, some of these young kids are going to develop into extremely good players and the rest should form a fine supporting cast. Might as well let them grow together and see which ones become which (and which ones become expendable/replaceable) while they're still all affordable.

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06-08-2011, 05:12 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by Jzk View Post
It really isn't.

That said I'd give up Shattenkirk+Oshie and maybe a first. That's about the best deal you'd get from STL.
Wow glad you aren't the GM. At this point in their careers and the stage the Blues are at i would much rather have Shattenkirk. Yes you may get 1-3 good years out of Pronger but he was injured often this season. Who is to say you can expect more then 50 games out of him anymore.

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06-08-2011, 05:21 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by EastonBlues22 View Post
I wouldn't do that trade, either. I don't think many Blues fans would.

I see Oshie as a 70 pt forward (with a very good two way game, physicality, intangibles, etc.) and Shattenkirk as a 40+ point two way defenseman down the road a few years. I wouldn't trade either one individually for Pronger right now, much less both. He still has a lot of value, but the poster that said he's a shell of what he once was is right as well. For a team on the cusp like Philly what he brings is almost irreplaceable. For a team like the Blues, it's not nearly enough for what it would cost to get him from a team like Philly. I'm glad Zundo had the nerve to kick the tires on it simply because it would have been a good fit if Philly felt like they were done with him. Obviously, that's not the case.
Just trying to think outside the box and see whats out there... but when you do that, you have to be ready for all the sensitive posters that will come rushing after you.

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I agree with the other poster that the Blues are really still a few years away from being serious Cup contenders. My expectations for them are to see them make the playoffs next year, make a deep run the year after that, and be a force the year after that. Trying to hasten that timeframe is possible, but only by seriously undercutting the length of time that the Blues will be competitive.
Thats why I wouldn't make Jzk's trade. We would have too many holes to fill and at the same time most of our players are not close to peaking. Its just not the time to make those kinds of trades when they involve multiple upper end roster players.

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Originally Posted by EastonBlues22 View Post
Eventually, as you imply, some home grown talent will have to go...but that's not going to be for quite some time. The Blues can hold onto pretty much every young talent they have for the better part of the next five years without breaking a financial sweat. Over that time, some of these young kids are going to develop into extremely good players and the rest should form a fine supporting cast. Might as well let them grow together and see which ones become which (and which ones become expendable/replaceable) while they're still all affordable.
I would add that you should seek to maximize your ROI on each player given the parameters of winning a Cup and working within a mid-sized market environment.

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06-08-2011, 05:23 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by Jzk View Post
It really isn't.

That said I'd give up Shattenkirk+Oshie and maybe a first. That's about the best deal you'd get from STL.

That trade would make the Blues worse... now and in the future. Pronger is still a great player, but he wouldn't be able to replace the production of those two players(much less adding a first). Also, all things considered with Pronger's age, contract, and lingering health concerns, his value isn't nearly that high.

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06-08-2011, 05:31 PM
  #34
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Am I the only guy not forgetting the Blues have Schwartz,Tarasenko,and Cole in the pipeline still? Tarasenko is still a question mark for next year(2012-2013) but I still think he'll come over and there's Oshie's replacement. Pronger and Shattenkirk should have the same production over the next few years. The only real question mark is if Prongers health will hold up.

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06-08-2011, 05:33 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Jzk View Post
Am I the only guy not forgetting the Blues have Schwartz,Tarasenko,and Cole in the pipeline still? Tarasenko is still a question mark for next year(2012-2013) but I still think he'll come over and there's Oshie's replacement. Pronger and Shattenkirk should have the same production over the next few years. The only real question mark is if Prongers health will hold up.
You're one of those people who measures defensemen on offensive numbers, aren't you?

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06-08-2011, 05:35 PM
  #36
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Originally Posted by GreenLantern2814 View Post
You're one of those people who measures defensemen on offensive numbers, aren't you?
Uh no. That's why I want Pronger and that's why I'd trade Oshie and Shattenkirk to get him.

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06-08-2011, 05:38 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Jzk View Post
Am I the only guy not forgetting the Blues have Schwartz,Tarasenko,and Cole in the pipeline still? Tarasenko is still a question mark for next year(2012-2013) but I still think he'll come over and there's Oshie's replacement. Pronger and Shattenkirk should have the same production over the next few years. The only real question mark is if Prongers health will hold up.
Yes we have some good PROSPECTS in Schwartz , Tarasenko and Cole but they are not proven NHLers yet and you are trading two proven NHL players with pretty high upside. Pronger may come back next season and have several good seasons left. Pronger may only average 50-60 games for the next 3 seasons or so putting up 20-30 points. Shattenkick is not on Pronger's level defensively but he may actually be the better offensive player of the 2 for the next 3 seasons or so.

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06-08-2011, 05:39 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Jzk View Post
Am I the only guy not forgetting the Blues have Schwartz,Tarasenko,and Cole in the pipeline still? Tarasenko is still a question mark for next year(2012-2013) but I still think he'll come over and there's Oshie's replacement. Pronger and Shattenkirk should have the same production over the next few years. The only real question mark is if Prongers health will hold up.
And? You don't trade your best prospects/players for an aging defenseman who likely only has two years left of good hockey (when healthy). And you want to throw in a first?

I mean the Blues need a top pairing lefty defenseman but not at that cost. Wowsers.

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06-08-2011, 05:40 PM
  #39
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Blues fans needs to quit living in the past. Was Pronger a special player when he played for the Blues? Yes. Is he the same player? No. Is he worth any combination of Petro/Shaty/oshie/dps? No. For the amount it would cost the Blues to get Pronger and the amount per season, it is not worth getting him.

We do need to get a top 4 d-man, that is a left handed. But not at this price, and not for a 35+ year old d-man.

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06-08-2011, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Yes we have some good PROSPECTS in Schwartz , Tarasenko and Cole but they are not proven NHLers yet and you are trading two proven NHL players with pretty high upside. Pronger may come back next season and have several good seasons left. Pronger may only average 50-60 games for the next 3 seasons or so putting up 20-30 points. Shattenkick is not on Pronger's level defensively but he may actually be the better offensive player of the 2 for the next 3 seasons or so.
This is all but guaranteed.

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06-08-2011, 05:43 PM
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And Philly fans may laugh but I wouldn't probably do more than McRae and a first for Pronger. That may even be a slight overpayment from St. Louis' end.

The Flyers need prospects and picks in the worst way.

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06-08-2011, 05:48 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
Yes we have some good PROSPECTS in Schwartz , Tarasenko and Cole but they are not proven NHLers yet and you are trading two proven NHL players with pretty high upside. Pronger may come back next season and have several good seasons left. Pronger may only average 50-60 games for the next 3 seasons or so putting up 20-30 points. Shattenkick is not on Pronger's level defensively but he may actually be the better offensive player of the 2 for the next 3 seasons or so.
Shattenkirk may also have a sophomore slump next year. None of us have crystal balls. The point I was making about the prospects is there has to be room for them in the future. Army went to Slovakia to guarantee Tarasenko a roster spot this year. So who was going to be traded?

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And? You don't trade your best prospects/players for an aging defenseman who likely only has two years left of good hockey (when healthy). And you want to throw in a first?

I mean the Blues need a top pairing lefty defenseman but not at that cost. Wowsers.

No one knows how many good years Pronger has left but it's a high risk high reward type trade. I said and maybe a first but yes the trade is still an over payment.

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06-08-2011, 05:49 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Overkamp View Post
And Philly fans may laugh but I wouldn't probably do more than McRae and a first for Pronger. That may even be a slight overpayment from St. Louis' end.

The Flyers need prospects and picks in the worst way.
I think that is undervaluing Pronger. But Oshie, Shatty and a first is too much. But it doesn't seem to matter, because Philly doesn't seem interested.

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06-08-2011, 05:53 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by Jzk View Post
Shattenkirk may also have a sophomore slump next year. None of us have crystal balls. The point I was making about the prospects is there has to be room for them in the future. Army went to Slovakia to guarantee Tarasenko a roster spot this year. So who was going to be traded?
First off, Armstrong has said differently in his interviews. Second, Tarasenko has to prove himself and is not a lock for top 6 duties even if we want him to be that ready.




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No one knows how many good years Pronger has left but it's a high risk high reward type trade. I said and maybe a first but yes the trade is still an over payment.
I would wager the risk is much higher percentage wise.

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06-08-2011, 05:54 PM
  #45
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I think that is undervaluing Pronger. But Oshie, Shatty and a first is too much. But it doesn't seem to matter, because Philly doesn't seem interested.
I think Pronger's value to St Louis or a team like Philly, Tampa ect are on two totally different levels. Pronger still can be a dominant force in the playoffs if healthy imo for the next 2-3 years. Just I don't think the Blues will be serious contenders for 3 years or so. I think there is a huge gap in Prongers value between a young team trying to make the playoffs and an established team playing for the cup.

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06-08-2011, 05:55 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by HooliganX2 View Post
I think Pronger's value to St Louis or a team like Philly, Tampa ect are on two totally different levels. Pronger still can be a dominant force in the playoffs if healthy imo for the next 2-3 years. Just I don't think the Blues will be serious contenders for 3 years or so. I think there is a huge gap in Prongers value between a young team trying to make the playoffs and an established team playing for the cup.
I don't disagree, I was merely looking at it from the Blues standpoint, not league wide.

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06-08-2011, 05:58 PM
  #47
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I think that is undervaluing Pronger. But Oshie, Shatty and a first is too much. But it doesn't seem to matter, because Philly doesn't seem interested.
Maybe but you really don't know which Pronger you're getting.

Plus Philly doesn't have a first rounder this year and either does St. Louis. Not sure we are very good trading partners at this time.

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06-08-2011, 06:05 PM
  #48
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Did faninoregon change his name to Jzk?

I like Pronger. I think he could come in and instantly play top pairing minutes, and in the right deal would make our team better. I also think that we would not get Pronger in the right deal. The amount the Flyers would ask for is insane, with good reason. I'm not prepared to give up the assets the Flyers would ask for.

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06-08-2011, 07:26 PM
  #49
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I'm sure I'd get HEAVILY shelled for this, but I think the only way you're getting Pronger is Pietrangleo.
Holmgren would get laughed off the phone by Armstrong if he even suggested that.

There's no way that Chris Pronger, at this age, is worth one of the best 20-year-old defensemen in the NHL.

If I were Armstrong I'd consider Oshie to Philly for Pronger and negotiating rights to Ville Leino.

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06-08-2011, 07:27 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Jzk View Post
It really isn't.

That said I'd give up Shattenkirk+Oshie and maybe a first. That's about the best deal you'd get from STL.
Shattenkirk, Oshie and a first-round pick for Pronger alone is highway robbery in favor of Philly. No way under God's blue heaven will Doug Armstrong make that deal.

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