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The 2013-2014 Training Camp/Preseason Discussion Thread

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09-10-2013, 01:22 PM
  #1
Trxjw
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The 2013-2014 Training Camp/Preseason Discussion Thread

All talk regarding training camp and the preseason can go here.

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09-10-2013, 01:25 PM
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"The team has a system"? lol

Does that include Richads making $10 mill per for looking like an old lady out there?

How on earth Sather continues to keep his job is one of the worlds unsolved mysteries.
Richards doesn't make $10 million per.

Richards was a UFA. Stepan is a RFA with no arbitration rights. Treating them the same is naive.

Sather has been a trainwreck in New York, but that doesn't mean he should hand out money senselessly in all cases.

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09-10-2013, 01:29 PM
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Hooray for Leverage, what # is he going to wear in camp?

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09-10-2013, 01:36 PM
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I can almost hear Sather making the Moore, Pouliot, and Zuccarello signings in the name of depth, being questioned about Stepan's status, and telling his underlings that'll all work out just fine.

...and yet, here we are on the eve of camp with an unsigned #1 center. Im sure Stepan and his agent have attempted to play hardball, but Im still not too enamored with how things got prioritized.

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09-10-2013, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by Bleed Ranger Blue View Post
I can almost hear Sather making the Moore, Pouliot, and Zuccarello signings in the name of depth, being questioned about Stepan's status, and telling his underlings that'll all work out just fine.

...and yet, here we are on the eve of camp with an unsigned #1 center. Im sure Stepan and his agent have attempted to play hardball, but Im still not too enamored with how things got prioritized.
If the Rangers had billions in cap space Slats would still be playing hardball.

And the order things get done are not equal to how they are prioritized. GMs, with the exception of Brian Cashman, can have multiple things going on at once.

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09-10-2013, 01:50 PM
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Stepan is looking for $5 million a year? Wow...is he out to lunch or what? Unreal.

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09-10-2013, 01:56 PM
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Stepan is looking for $5 million a year? Wow...is he out to lunch or what? Unreal.
Where was that reported?

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09-10-2013, 02:01 PM
  #8
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If the Rangers had billions in cap space Slats would still be playing hardball.

And the order things get done are not equal to how they are prioritized. GMs, with the exception of Brian Cashman, can have multiple things going on at once.
For me, it all comes down to if/when Stepan and his agent come to grips with the fact he will get a 2 year bridge deal.

If Stepan is still shooting for the moon, then yea, let him rot until he comes to his senses. If the bridge deal is agreed, and they are haggling over $'s, then whats a tough situation that Sather created -- because even without much leverage, Stepan probably deserves $3M+ yearly on a 2 year deal.

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09-10-2013, 02:10 PM
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Stepan is looking for $5 million a year? Wow...is he out to lunch or what? Unreal.
So predictable. People turning on Stepan already.

Like every other player in the league, Stepan has an agent who advises him on what to do. Does anyone honestly think his agent is telling him to sign the deal and Stepan is refusing?

I seriously doubt it. So can we stop the character assassinations before they really get out of hand? I don't look forward to people still crying about Stepan's holdout 3 years from now and insisting we should trade him.

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09-10-2013, 02:12 PM
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So predictable. People turning on Stepan already.

Like every other player in the league, Stepan has an agent who advises him on what to do. Does anyone honestly think his agent is telling him to sign the deal and Stepan is refusing?

I seriously doubt it. So can we stop the character assassinations before they really get out of hand? I don't look forward to people still crying about Stepan's holdout 3 years from now and insisting we should trade him.
Nope, we'll kill him now, portray him as clueless and greedy, then boo him when he doesn't score in five straight games. This is New York, bro.

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09-10-2013, 02:14 PM
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
So predictable. People turning on Stepan already.

Like every other player in the league, Stepan has an agent who advises him on what to do. Does anyone honestly think his agent is telling him to sign the deal and Stepan is refusing?

I seriously doubt it. So can we stop the character assassinations before they really get out of hand? I don't look forward to people still crying about Stepan's holdout 3 years from now and insisting we should trade him.
Players have agents, yeah. But they also have the ability to say "$5 million? Guy, that's crazy." It's not as if the players can see a demand like that and just shrug it off like "Well sorry everyone, it's out of my hands!"

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09-10-2013, 02:16 PM
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
So predictable. People turning on Stepan already.

Like every other player in the league, Stepan has an agent who advises him on what to do. Does anyone honestly think his agent is telling him to sign the deal and Stepan is refusing?

I seriously doubt it. So can we stop the character assassinations before they really get out of hand? I don't look forward to people still crying about Stepan's holdout 3 years from now and insisting we should trade him.
That's such a cop-out, agents work for the players, not the other way around.

That being said, the threat of a hold-out is about the only leverage Stepan has. I don't blame him for using it.

But no, the character assassinations are a favorite of this board and will not stop. Remember when McDonagh deciding to go to his junior year of college? What a slime he was.

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09-10-2013, 02:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
So predictable. People turning on Stepan already.

Like every other player in the league, Stepan has an agent who advises him on what to do. Does anyone honestly think his agent is telling him to sign the deal and Stepan is refusing?

I seriously doubt it. So can we stop the character assassinations before they really get out of hand? I don't look forward to people still crying about Stepan's holdout 3 years from now and insisting we should trade him.
Who's this Stepan you speak of? He's now called Holdout.

I think holdy is going to crack real soon. Holds has always been the guy that showed up to optional practices and skated the best he could without stressing his energy for the next game. Off the ice, he's our on ice Callahan. Holdy was Torts's kinda guy for a reason. Glen knows that. His agent is advising him and playing the games. If you're going into negotiation with Glen and co with the track record they have, you're going in for a battle of attrition and fully equipped for every situation.

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09-10-2013, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
So predictable. People turning on Stepan already.

Like every other player in the league, Stepan has an agent who advises him on what to do. Does anyone honestly think his agent is telling him to sign the deal and Stepan is refusing?

I seriously doubt it. So can we stop the character assassinations before they really get out of hand? I don't look forward to people still crying about Stepan's holdout 3 years from now and insisting we should trade him.
All quite true.

At the same time, it's on his agent to explain the lack of leverage isn't it?

It doesn't help the player or the team to miss any second of training camp.

He's going to take the deal Sather has on the table. He can take it now and not miss any of training camp or later and incur whatever damage he does by missing time with a new coach, new system, new teammates and conditioning.

If he had any leverage I wouldn't begrudge him at all. He doesn't. So I can't say I understand. I think it's a mistake.

Maybe he'll squeeze a few extra thousand out of Sather and I'll be proven wrong. But a few extra thou isn't going to make or break him over the next two years.

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09-10-2013, 02:30 PM
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Originally Posted by -31- View Post
That's such a cop-out, agents work for the players, not the other way around.

That being said, the threat of a hold-out is about the only leverage Stepan has. I don't blame him for using it.

But no, the character assassinations are a favorite of this board and will not stop. Remember when McDonagh deciding to go to his junior year of college? What a slime he was.
It's not much different from what lawyers do for their clients. They advise and negotiate based on the wishes of the client. However, with both cases, the advise of counsel influences what the client's demands. If players knew what they are doing similar in the sense that the clients of lawyers know laws and practices, they wouldn't need an agent. If his agent says, Derek, here's what we're looking at and we can only get ".....", I doubt holdy would disregard it.

That said, I bet a lot if the time, agents are the ones causing the hold out. They have a reputation, a client and pride to maintain. If he tells holdy that we can get a ".... Deal" if we hold out, holds will probably hold out.

Like Donny Fehr was able to advise players to not bend. The players followed his counsel.

That said, I think holdy will miss the off ice tomorrow and the on ice Thursday before telling his agent to squeeze an extra $100K and move on.

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09-10-2013, 02:31 PM
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The talk of leverage is interesting, just because a team has leverage it means they should use it even if it means less than desirable results from using it?

Isn't the point to contend for championships? not use leverage so the team can keep the Powe's, Asham's and Pyatt's of the league on their active roster.

Seems Chicago for example has no trouble handing out extensions to what they consider their core players regardless of leverage.

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09-10-2013, 02:39 PM
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Nope, we'll kill him now, portray him as clueless and greedy, then boo him when he doesn't score in five straight games. This is New York, bro.
Hey, it's Dubinsky Deja Vu!

How about that?

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09-10-2013, 02:40 PM
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"The team has a system"? lol

Does that include Richads making $10 mill per for looking like an old lady out there?

How on earth Sather continues to keep his job is one of the worlds unsolved mysteries.
You're not even a Rangers fan so what do you care what the teams system is, what Richards make, and why Stepan is still holding out.

Additionally, do you know what Richards contract and Stepans have in common?

Absolutely nothing. Two different players. Two different circumstances. If you did your homework, things would make sense and you wouldn't have to get your panties in a bunch.

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09-10-2013, 02:40 PM
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The talk of leverage is interesting, just because a team has leverage it means they should use it even if it means less than desirable results from using it?

Isn't the point to contend for championships? not use leverage so the team can keep the Powe's, Asham's and Pyatt's of the league on their active roster.

Seems Chicago for example has no trouble handing out extensions to what they consider their core players regardless of leverage.
Handing out extensions is fine but we have the big picture to look at. Hand it out now, we might have trouble later. We should be glad Glen isn't handing anything out.

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09-10-2013, 02:41 PM
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It's not much different from what lawyers do for their clients. They advise and negotiate based on the wishes of the client. However, with both cases, the advise of counsel influences what the client's demands. If players knew what they are doing similar in the sense that the clients of lawyers know laws and practices, they wouldn't need an agent. If his agent says, Derek, here's what we're looking at and we can only get ".....", I doubt holdy would disregard it.

That said, I bet a lot if the time, agents are the ones causing the hold out. They have a reputation, a client and pride to maintain. If he tells holdy that we can get a ".... Deal" if we hold out, holds will probably hold out.

Like Donny Fehr was able to advise players to not bend. The players followed his counsel.

That said, I think holdy will miss the off ice tomorrow and the on ice Thursday before telling his agent to squeeze an extra $100K and move on.
I honestly don't know why hockey players need agents.

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09-10-2013, 02:45 PM
  #21
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I honestly don't know why hockey players need agents.
They don't have a relationship with management to be able to communicate their best interests appropriately. Fatso and Lou might be able to sit and work things out over coffee but I'm not sure how John Moore will do against Glen.

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09-10-2013, 02:46 PM
  #22
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They don't have a relationship with management to be able to communicate their best interests appropriately. Fatso and Lou might be able to sit and work things out over coffee but I'm not sure how John Moore will do against Glen.
Yeah, they're not skilled negotiators, but I think they'd be able to get within 12% in almost every case.

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09-10-2013, 02:52 PM
  #23
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Richards doesn't make $10 million per.
true this year he gets paid only $9 mil to play like an old lady LOL

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09-10-2013, 02:55 PM
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Yeah, they're not skilled negotiators, but I think they'd be able to get within 12% in almost every case.
want to form a team and represent players? You'll be in charge of the jokes and I'll be in charge of the threats. Like a good agent/bad agent thing.

I'm not familiar enough with every other team to be able to say this but I swear to baby cheeses that NYR management is one of the stingiest aside from FA contracts. It's like Glen is doing this on purpose. Low ball everyone without leverage so he could have the cap and money to steal free agents.

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09-10-2013, 02:56 PM
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true this year he gets paid only $9 mil to play like an old lady LOL
Which isn't 10M. Additionally, there are years on his contract that pays him 1M, so what's the point you're trying to make?

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