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Next Season's Roster (All Trade, UFA Signing and Re-Signing Discussion) Part II

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Old
06-09-2011, 05:26 PM
  #26
magic school bus
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i agree about trading Vlasic. it hurts, but he adds NOTHING offensively. i love his defensive work, but he isnt the type of player we need right now.

i'd also say i dont know about signing Erik Cole. IIRC, he sucked when he left Carolina.

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06-09-2011, 05:35 PM
  #27
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i agree about trading Vlasic. it hurts, but he adds NOTHING offensively. i love his defensive work, but he isnt the type of player we need right now.

i'd also say i dont know about signing Erik Cole. IIRC, he sucked when he left Carolina.
Cole had 28 goals and 56 points last year. He actually wasn't too bad in Edmonton. He put up ~35 point pace, despite playing on the second line with I think Nilsson and Gagne. He also had a rough year two years ago, but aside from those two blips, he has put up over 40 points seven times, and four of them were over 50.

Regarding the Nichol question, it is also worth noting he was on the #2 pk unit, but he was I believe our most successful penalty killer (using the behindthenet numbers) on a team that was weak on the penalty kill. It is likely replacing him with either Desjardin or McCarty will make it worse. And with many in favor of trading Mitchell, our pairings could be Marleau-Pavelski, Thornton-Heatley, Desjardin/Couture-Mayers/FA. That is far from ideal. I wouldn't mind an upgrade on Mayers, but that is something that could come at the deadline pretty easily. However there are plenty of quality bottom sixers, and one could fall through the cracks.

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06-09-2011, 05:42 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by matt trick View Post
Cole had 28 goals and 56 points last year. He actually wasn't too bad in Edmonton. He put up ~35 point pace, despite playing on the second line with I think Nilsson and Gagne. He also had a rough year two years ago, but aside from those two blips, he has put up over 40 points seven times, and four of them were over 50.
He needs someone who can do puck control on his line. He didn't get that in Edmonton where they really only have Hemsky. In Carolina, he got a lot of time with Staal where his primary job was to get there first and get it to Staal. He is fast enough to still generate a lot of breakaway opportunities as well.


Last edited by SJeasy: 06-09-2011 at 05:51 PM.
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06-09-2011, 05:45 PM
  #29
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He needs someone who can do puck control on his line. He didn't get that in Edmonton where they really only have Hemsky. In Carolina, he got a lot of time with Staal where his primary job was to get there first and get it to Staal. He is fast enough to still generate a lot of breakaway opportunities.
Yup, I meant to note that being a pure RW was an issue since he didn't get "Hemsky Time". As a side note, what is a breakaway? Also, Cole is still very fast, but have you noticed signs of that reducing with age (he is probably no longer elite, but I mean should a team be concerned about him falling to average)? He would be dramatically less effective with a 10-15% reduction of speed.

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06-09-2011, 05:55 PM
  #30
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Originally Posted by matt trick View Post
Yup, I meant to note that being a pure RW was an issue since he didn't get "Hemsky Time". As a side note, what is a breakaway? Also, Cole is still very fast, but have you noticed signs of that reducing with age (he is probably no longer elite, but I mean should a team be concerned about him falling to average)? He would be dramatically less effective with a 10-15% reduction of speed.
He still has the speed to pull away. Really good first step. I did see a little of him this year and his speed hasn't noticeably deteriorated although I do expect it to fall off in the not too distant. Guys who do first forecheck deteriorate early. Breakaway is breakaway as in clear scoring chance having beaten all defenders. I have seen him do it from the offensive blueline as well as starting deep in his zone. It's a lot harder when only starting at the opposition blueline.

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06-09-2011, 06:04 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by SJeasy View Post
He still has the speed to pull away. Really good first step. I did see a little of him this year and his speed hasn't noticeably deteriorated although I do expect it to fall off in the not too distant. Guys who do first forecheck deteriorate early. Breakaway is breakaway as in clear scoring chance having beaten all defenders. I have seen him do it from the offensive blueline as well as starting deep in his zone. It's a lot harder when only starting at the opposition blueline.
I was sarcastic with the breakaway ccomment, as we sharks fans don't see too many of them.

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06-09-2011, 06:09 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by matt trick View Post
Murray (2.5)- Boyle (6.67)
Vlasic (3.1)- Demers (1.25)
Salei (.7)- White (3.35)
Moore (.5125)
I was thinking something like that as well, but replace Moore with Braun. Sign a cheap and reliable #6 defenseman (Huskins wouldn't be too bad either) that you can switch off with Braun occasionally, giving Braun 40-50 games in the season.
An even more ideal situation would be to package Vlasic or Murray with prospects and forwards to get someone like Suter or Burns.

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Old
06-09-2011, 06:22 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by matt trick View Post
I was sarcastic with the breakaway ccomment, as we sharks fans don't see too many of them.
Sorry missed. Age creeping up again. The breakaway thing is more the SJ blueline than anything. A bit of system of play as well. And yes, we don't get that treat very often, probably fewest in the NHL.

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06-09-2011, 08:25 PM
  #34
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Also, here is the line-up I'd go with (assuming it were possible)

Cap: 63.5 (perhaps overzealous, but I am reasonable everywhere else)

Trades:
Niittymaki to Toronto/Columbus/Colorado/Edmonton/Phoenix/Florida/TBL for a 6th.
Mitchell for a 4th/prospect.

Signings:
Devin Setoguchi- 2 years 2.75 million
Ian White- 3 years 3.35 million per
Erik Cole- 3 years 3.35 million per (if he'll take two even better)
Kyle Wellwood- 1 year 850k
Jamal Mayers- 1 year 650k
Andrew Desjardin- 1 year 550k QO.
Jamie McGinn- 1 year 650k (less than QO, but one-way)
Scott Nichol- 1 year 700k (someone else is fine here as well)
Ruslan Salei- 1 year 700k (essentially a veteran stay at home #6 d-man, doesn't have to be Salei. Just give some insulation should Petrecki,
Doherty, Irwin, Moore and Braun be overmatched on defense, should an injury occur).
Greiss or equivalent- 1 year 650k
Benn Ferrerio- 1 year at QO 720k?
John McCarty- 1 year at 605k QO
Stalock- 2 years 800k.
McLaren, Eager, walk.

NHL roster
Marleau (6.9)- Thornton (7)- Cole (3.35)
Clowe (3.625)- Couture (1.242)- Heatley (7.5)
Wellwood (.85)- Pavelski (4)- Setoguchi (2.75)
McGinn (.65)- Nichol (.7)- Mayers (.7)
Desjardin (.55)

Murray (2.5)- Boyle (6.67)
Vlasic (3.1)- Demers (1.25)
Salei (.7)- White (3.35)
Moore (.5125)

Niemi (3.8)
Greiss (.65)

Total: 62.3 million (1.2 million cap space)

AHL roster
Treveleyan- Swift- Ferrerio
Mashinter-McCarty-DaSilva
Connolly-Viedensky-Livingston
Reid-Wingels-Macintyre
Lucia

Ferrerio, Mashinter, Viedensky should be used for an opening in the top 9. McCarty and Wingels for an opening on the fourth line.

Petrecki-Braun
Doherty-Irwin
Alacost-Schaus

Braun will be expected to play 25 minutes per night and dominate. Any injury, fatigue to White, Demers, Boyle, and possible Vlasic will result in his call-up. Should count on giving him 40 games over the course of the year regardless of injuries.

Sateri
Hutton
Stalock (injury/rest)
Sexsmith
I'm very surprised to see you advocate downgrading our D (Wallin->Salei & Hukins->Moore) while spending more money on forwards. The past two years DW has done a good job of bringing in cheap effective top 9 vets. (Malhotra - Wellwood) Wouldn't it make more sense for him to upgrade Mitchell with another find and spend that extra cash on D. We could either go deep like Vancouver by signing White and another 3MM ish vet...or if the right upgrade is available, forget White and bring in a top pairing guy for 6 MM ish.

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Old
06-09-2011, 08:38 PM
  #35
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Fixing the 3rd/4th lines

I understand that we pretty much got beat on every line except for glimpses of hope on the top line(thornton/marleau), or occasionally clowe. But Seto's still young enough to improve(hopefully), pav's right handed shot is still very useful, and couture's a rookie. So that rules out most of the top 6(minus heatley, who seems to be stuck here due to a NMC) as far as major changes go.

Add on the fact that most of the 3rd and 4th lines are UFA and, assuming we can actually find money for this, there's plenty of room for improvement on those lines.

Ben Eager- I was excited when we got him, I thought we'd get the gritty guy who always seemed to outwork our forwards when he was with chicago, would really step it up in the playoffs, and the guy who occasionally can score a clutch goal. Instead, we get a bonehead who can't stay out of the penalty box. This was the exact reason we got rid of staubitz and shelley- they're useless in the playoffs.

Nichol- Despite being a key to our horrible PK in the regular season, as well as faceoffs, he rarely played more than 5 minutes a night in the Vancouver series. He was playing with a bum shoulder though so that may have played a part.(got surgery right after the playoffs). He's getting old(36), with the way he plays I'm not sure how many more full seasons we'll get out of him. But I'm still open to having him back for cheap. The 4th line's problems had more to do with mayers and eager imo.

Wellwood and Mitchell- I feel like we should only keep one of these two. Together, that line is just way too tiny and easily pushed around to be facing other team's "checking" style 3rd line(torres and lapierre just ripped them apart). Mitchell is faster, shoots slightly more, and hits more often, but wellwood is more of a scoring threat both as a passer and shooter. A stat that surprises me is mitchell only had 1 blocked shot the entire playoff season while wellwood had 8, might have to do with pk time but I'm not sure. I was underwhelmed by both of them most of the playoffs so I'm not sure...

Mcginn and ferriero- mcginn is another enigma, when he's "on" and playing smart you've got a decent sized guy who can fly, when he's not thinking he takes a dumb penalty or boards someone...I liked ferriero in the limited amount of time I saw him, I'm not sure why we stuck with mcginn over him although I suppose it could have been the speed difference(ferriero is kinda average). If it comes down to it I'll still take these two guys over eager and mayers any day.

So...What does the 3rd and 4th line look like to you? Who on the UFA market do you wish the sharks would target for these two lines? Or do we plug it all up with guys who are already in the system?

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Old
06-09-2011, 08:55 PM
  #36
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i think the mcginn-desjardin-mayers line should be #4 next year as they were great in games 4 and 5.

honestly, id like to see us go out and get torres for #3 lw and a chris higgins for rw. both have great speed, and torres can hit like a train

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06-09-2011, 09:08 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CupfortheSharks View Post
I'm very surprised to see you advocate downgrading our D (Wallin->Salei & Hukins->Moore) while spending more money on forwards. The past two years DW has done a good job of bringing in cheap effective top 9 vets. (Malhotra - Wellwood) Wouldn't it make more sense for him to upgrade Mitchell with another find and spend that extra cash on D. We could either go deep like Vancouver by signing White and another 3MM ish vet...or if the right upgrade is available, forget White and bring in a top pairing guy for 6 MM ish.
How is Wallin better than Salei? Salei is marginally better in both aspects that Wallin is given props for. He hits more, blocks more shots, with the notable exception being that Salei is better at moving the puck.

As for Huskins being better than Moore, that's a given. However, there's no reason to have a #7 make that much money. #7's should be near minimum.

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06-09-2011, 09:22 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by PuckInTheNet View Post
i think the mcginn-desjardin-mayers line should be #4 next year as they were great in games 4 and 5.

honestly, id like to see us go out and get torres for #3 lw and a chris higgins for rw. both have great speed, and torres can hit like a train
Ugh, I have no interest in Raffi Torres. I want to be able to cheer the Sharks and I just wouldn't be able to do that if a guy like him is on the team.

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06-09-2011, 09:28 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by PuckInTheNet View Post
i think the mcginn-desjardin-mayers line should be #4 next year as they were great in games 4 and 5.

honestly, id like to see us go out and get torres for #3 lw and a chris higgins for rw. both have great speed, and torres can hit like a train
Mayers hasn't impressed me much, I just hate having guys who take dumb penalties...If we're even discussing getting torres I think mayers and eager should both be gone to keep our discipline level up.

I admit I could maybe eventually get over the fact that torres is a complete ****** if he was on our team. Lol. But both of them are going to be hot commodities once ufa hits especially if vancouver wins. I'd rather have higgins if we can only pick one, he's been the bigger scoring threat and despite being smaller sized than torres, he can bang his body around too.

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06-09-2011, 09:36 PM
  #40
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Ugh, I have no interest in Raffi Torres. I want to be able to cheer the Sharks and I just wouldn't be able to do that if a guy like him is on the team.
Yeah my moral flexibility is like a thousand feet wide, lol. I hate guys who play like him on the other team, and learn to like guys in our jersey. He does whatever it takes and works hard, I commend him for that.

I'd take a team full of chris prongers, corey perrys, torres, heck even bertuzzi if it means the cup. This isn't figure skating.

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06-09-2011, 09:36 PM
  #41
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A BIG NO to Torres on this team.

Torres is filth.

Eager and McGinn hit harder. Would rather have them.

Saying you don't want Eager, but would rather have Torres is like saying I'd rather rob a credit union instead of bank. Eager is less annoying and has far better stick skills and a harder shot then Torres.

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06-09-2011, 09:37 PM
  #42
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Heatley-Thornton-Setoguchi
Marleau-Pavelski-Drury
Clowe-Couture-Ferriero
McGinn-Desjardins-McCarthy

Do it.

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06-09-2011, 09:43 PM
  #43
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Drury - Drury - Drury
Drury - Drury - Drury

best bottom 6 in the world.

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06-09-2011, 09:50 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by magic school bus View Post
Drury - Drury - Drury
Drury - Drury - Drury

best bottom 6 in the world.

if drury gets bought out and signs with us at min, i would take him in a heartbeat yo

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06-09-2011, 10:12 PM
  #45
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Drury is a great fit on ANY team, the only problem is his salary. NYR really **** the bed when they gave him that contract, similar to the Wade Redden contract.


Question, can Ben Eager be controlled and trained? Can his play against Vancouver be used as a teaching tool to allow him to see what he is doing wrong? If the answer is yes, then without question or a doubt, re-sign him to a new contract. If no, allow him to be another team's burden.

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06-09-2011, 10:18 PM
  #46
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Joel Ward UFA RW.

Get him

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06-09-2011, 10:32 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by UniversalRemonster View Post
A BIG NO to Torres on this team.

Torres is filth.

Eager and McGinn hit harder. Would rather have them.

Saying you don't want Eager, but would rather have Torres is like
saying I'd rather rob a credit union instead of bank. Eager is less annoying and has far better stick skills and a harder shot then
Torres.
Torres and Eager are both trolls, but Torres is able to control himself.

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06-09-2011, 10:37 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by CupfortheSharks View Post
I'm very surprised to see you advocate downgrading our D (Wallin->Salei & Hukins->Moore) while spending more money on forwards. The past two years DW has done a good job of bringing in cheap effective top 9 vets. (Malhotra - Wellwood) Wouldn't it make more sense for him to upgrade Mitchell with another find and spend that extra cash on D. We could either go deep like Vancouver by signing White and another 3MM ish vet...or if the right upgrade is available, forget White and bring in a top pairing guy for 6 MM ish.
The difference between Wallin and Salei (or another low-end UFA guy) is negligible. What I care about is having an acceptable stay at home #6 d-man who can compliment White, at a significantly reduced rate of Wallin's current contract. I tend to think that Boyle-Vlasic-Demers-Murray-White-Salei/Wallin while not ideal, is good enough to take the division, and at the deadline the team can look to grab a major upgrade for the third pairing (after call-ups the team may be able to take on a contract as high as 4-6 million).

However, with the exception of getting both Brewer (~4.25 mill) and re-signing White (~3.35), and replacing Cole with Marek/Mash/Ferrerio (~.75) I don't think there is any way to go into the year with a defense that the team can truly win a cup with. I think the above defense keeps us well in the game, while providing a forward core that would be the envy of every team in the West. I would not be opposed to something like:

Marleau-Thornton-Seto
Clowe-Couture-Heatley
Wellwood-Pavelski-Ferrerio
McGinn-Nichol-Mayers
Desjardin

Brewer-Boyle
Vlasic-Demers
Murray-White
Moore

Niemi
Greiss

However, it leaves 500k in cap space, so acquisition of a forward would likely be limited to 2 million at best. Than again, in such a situation, maybe the team can makes alterations to the salary structure so that more could be done with offense later on.

Overall, I think they are both good options, but I'd just prefer the first one. As I noted in an early post, the team has three options: offense+defense, all defense, offense/defense+bottom 6. Justifications could be made for any of them.

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06-09-2011, 10:42 PM
  #49
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The McGinn-Desjardins-Mayers line was pretty good. I'm probably in the minority here, but I think Mayers should be re-signed. People have brought up Upshall in the other thread, and I like that idea. Re-sign Wellwood, and trade Mitchell.

Marleau-Thornton-Setoguchi
Clowe-Couture-Heatley
Wellwood-Pavelski-Upshall
McGinn-Desjardins-Mayers

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06-09-2011, 10:45 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by UniversalRemonster View Post
A BIG NO to Torres on this team.

Torres is filth.

Eager and McGinn hit harder. Would rather have them.

Saying you don't want Eager, but would rather have Torres is like saying I'd rather rob a credit union instead of bank. Eager is less annoying and has far better stick skills and a harder shot then Torres.
Torres clearly won that battle. There's no comparison between him and eager. The only goal eager scored was when we were down by 5 goals, many of which were scored on us because he couldn't control himself to stay out of the penalty box. Torres can be trusted with over 10 minutes a night, eager can not.

Eager: TOI vs vancouver: 16 minutes in 2 games(or an avg 8 mins a night, this is higher than the previous series i believe) - 22 minutes in the penalty box - 1 goal
Torres: TOI vs SJ : around 60 minutes in 5 games or on average 13 mins a night - 4 minutes in the penalty box - 1 game winning goal.

I really don't care if a player is deemed "filthy", nichol occasionally can be considered dirty and so can eager, and we used to have brad marchment, these type of players are more useful than goody-two-shoe heatley type of players that do absolutely nothing when it matters I'd much rather have these types of players on my side of the ice rather than against me.

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