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Next Season's Roster (All Trade, UFA Signing and Re-Signing Discussion) Part II

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06-10-2011, 11:34 AM
  #76
Gilligans Island
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Originally Posted by Sacto4Now View Post
Thought this was interested (Results may be surprising). I know that they're hinkey when it comes to crediting giveaways, but if it's a least, relatively consistant, then this is something to look at:

The higher the ToI per GvA, the better. Shows Nichol and Wellwood as having the least amount of turnovers for our bottom 9 (Desjardins doesn't have a big sample).

I guess the biggest surprise is how much ahead of the pack Huskins is and the fact that Wallin is in the top 3rd.
That's a cool chart.

I wish there was a way they could report "TOI with puck" (carrying it or making a pass). That would probably show a more accurate stat b/c my initial impressions are:

- Well, Huskins and Wallin didn't seem to carry the puck much and their partner usually made the outlet pass.

- Jumbo and Clowe are really good puck handlers and passers given they're in the top 8. For all that we bash on Jumbo for his lazy passes, he's still not turning it all that much relatively.

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06-10-2011, 11:45 AM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
That's a cool chart.

I wish there was a way they could report "TOI with puck" (carrying it or making a pass). That would probably show a more accurate stat b/c my initial impressions are:

- Well, Huskins and Wallin didn't seem to carry the puck much and their partner usually made the outlet pass.

- Jumbo and Clowe are really good puck handlers and passers given they're in the top 8. For all that we bash on Jumbo for his lazy passes, he's still not turning it all that much relatively.
Yeah, I think it's not a good way of comparing Jumbo and Wallin, because ToI and TwP (Time with Puck) are going to vary, but comparing Thornton, Wellwood and Pavs (Playmakers) amongst each other is a good start. Taking that into consideration, you have to assume that Jumbo has the highest TwP out of all of them, so that makes his standing much more impressive.

Can't say I'm surprised to see Cooch, Seto and Heater in the bottom there; it seems like they always go for the dangle when they are 1v1 in the offensive zone versus Marleau, who will either shoot or pull up and wait for Jumbo.

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06-10-2011, 12:02 PM
  #78
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Originally Posted by Sacto4Now View Post
Yeah, I think it's not a good way of comparing Jumbo and Wallin, because ToI and TwP (Time with Puck) are going to vary, but comparing Thornton, Wellwood and Pavs (Playmakers) amongst each other is a good start. Taking that into consideration, you have to assume that Jumbo has the highest TwP out of all of them, so that makes his standing much more impressive.

Can't say I'm surprised to see Cooch, Seto and Heater in the bottom there; it seems like they always go for the dangle when they are 1v1 in the offensive zone versus Marleau, who will either shoot or pull up and wait for Jumbo.
Agree - you compare apples-to-apples (i.e., compare players by position). My initial 2 observations were independent.

Also a bit disappointed that Pavs and Marleau are so low. They're to danglers. Looking at Patty, I think those of us who criticize him are a justified, his giveaways are higher than they should be for a player like him. Pavs needs to work on protecting the puck. Both players had slightly below average seasons, IMO. Pavs turned it on at the end.

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06-10-2011, 12:39 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by Gilligans Island View Post
Agree - you compare apples-to-apples (i.e., compare players by position). My initial 2 observations were independent.

Also a bit disappointed that Pavs and Marleau are so low. They're to danglers. Looking at Patty, I think those of us who criticize him are a justified, his giveaways are higher than they should be for a player like him. Pavs needs to work on protecting the puck. Both players had slightly below average seasons, IMO. Pavs turned it on at the end.
I am disappointed in Patty's number but he was also the guy who they were counting on to get entries, making that first chip. The guy who does that is going to get giveaways somewhat like the playmakers but at a lesser clip. He was still high on the stat.

Also, giveaways, takeaways and hits are very dependent on the arena statistician. There is a wide variation between arenas and I have seen some bias between players.

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06-10-2011, 01:34 PM
  #80
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Admittedly I donít know much about his current play but what about giving Steve Bernier a chance. I remember reading he is a fa now and asking for about what Jamal Mayers makes. I know his play had declined but I think it is worth a shot for the money and on the 4th line.

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06-10-2011, 01:47 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by kltstheslkjokl View Post
Admittedly I don’t know much about his current play but what about giving Steve Bernier a chance. I remember reading he is a fa now and asking for about what Jamal Mayers makes. I know his play had declined but I think it is worth a shot for the money and on the 4th line.
The only way Steve Bernier works in San Jose, is if he is playing on the 3rd line. He doesn't have the work ethic and mentality necessary for a 4th liner. Wellwood-Pavelski-Bernier would not be a bad third line but it would be below average in speed. However, Bernier's inconsistencies in general make it tough to trust him in that role.

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06-10-2011, 01:52 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Pinkfloyd View Post
The only way Steve Bernier works in San Jose, is if he is playing on the 3rd line. He doesn't have the work ethic and mentality necessary for a 4th liner. Wellwood-Pavelski-Bernier would not be a bad third line but it would be below average in speed. However, Bernier's inconsistencies in general make it tough to trust him in that role.
We'd have the fattest line in hockey My experience from NES hockey is a line with two fat guys is too slow

Seriously though, I don't think there is a place for Bernier here, I didn't even know he was still in the NHL...

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06-10-2011, 02:21 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by matt trick View Post
I was sarcastic with the breakaway ccomment, as we sharks fans don't see too many of them.

I beg to differ...Mike Grier had a ton of breakaways when he was here...LOL.

See what I did there?

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06-10-2011, 02:46 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by CrazedZooChimp View Post
We'd have the fattest line in hockey My experience from NES hockey is a line with two fat guys is too slow

Seriously though, I don't think there is a place for Bernier here, I didn't even know he was still in the NHL...
He was playing a top-9 role with the Panthers...

Yeah, he wasn't really in the NHL.

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06-10-2011, 02:53 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by CrazedZooChimp View Post
We'd have the fattest line in hockey My experience from NES hockey is a line with two fat guys is too slow

Seriously though, I don't think there is a place for Bernier here, I didn't even know he was still in the NHL...

I don't want Bernier on this team because it'd be a constant reminder that we could've had Parise.

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Old
06-10-2011, 02:56 PM
  #86
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For everyone chattering about signing a "reclamation project" Bernier may be worth a try.

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06-10-2011, 03:15 PM
  #87
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ballard is 100% out of vancouver - he's literally 9th on the depth chart there and tanev now has over taken him. he could be had for super cheap i bet, so basically for 'free'. anyone think he's worth a reclamation project? he prolly has lingering injuries, and his confidence is 100% shot. it's a 4.2 for 4 years contract as well. he also has a bad habit of attempted murder on teammate goalies. but on the other side, he was a pretty good dman, and in his prime a definite top 3.

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06-10-2011, 03:18 PM
  #88
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For everyone chattering about signing a "reclamation project" Bernier may be worth a try.
Let's have an reclamation project fourth line:

Bernier-Drury-Nolan

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Old
06-10-2011, 03:20 PM
  #89
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The problem is that if Ballard has anything left in the tank, we are pretty much the last place Vancouver will trade him.

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06-10-2011, 03:38 PM
  #90
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ballard is 100% out of vancouver - he's literally 9th on the depth chart there and tanev now has over taken him. he could be had for super cheap i bet, so basically for 'free'. anyone think he's worth a reclamation project? he prolly has lingering injuries, and his confidence is 100% shot. it's a 4.2 for 4 years contract as well. he also has a bad habit of attempted murder on teammate goalies. but on the other side, he was a pretty good dman, and in his prime a definite top 3.
A team doesn't take on a $4.2mil 4 yr contract of a player that they're hoping can bounce back.

Besides, Ian White is everything that Ballard is, he can be signed for way less than $4 mil and the team doesn't have to give up anything to get him.

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06-10-2011, 03:58 PM
  #91
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Ballard is washed up, there's a reason why he hasn't been played in these playoffs save Ehrhoff's injury and Rome's suspension.

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06-10-2011, 04:02 PM
  #92
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Seeing as everyone's input on the roster DOES NOT include Niitty, a good topic for discussion would be what team will want him, and can we get anything for him?

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06-10-2011, 04:18 PM
  #93
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Just proposed Niitty to PHX for a 2011 5th on the main board.

Seems reasonable.

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06-10-2011, 04:37 PM
  #94
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Originally Posted by Sacto4Now View Post
Seeing as everyone's input on the roster DOES NOT include Niitty, a good topic for discussion would be what team will want him, and can we get anything for him?
Important to consider the goalie market.

NJ: Brodeur, no.
NYI: Dipietro, Nabokov, Montoya. Despite having three guys, they are a trade of Nabby and Dipietro injury away from being interest (2 things I expect to happen)
NYR- Lundqvist; no
Philly- Bob, possibly Vokoun; no Niitty, been there done that, but he is a lot better than Leighton or Boucher.
Pitt- Fleury, no.

Winnipeg- no; Pavelec, Mason.
Carolina- no; Ward, Peters
Florida- maybe; Clemmensen, maybe Markstrom, Vokoun is testing market, may look for a Giguere type, but Niitty may be just as good.
Tampa- maybe; Roloson is old, Smith is a back-up; will likely pursue Vokoun, Bryz, Nabby first; wanted to keep him, but may now be bad blood. Could have injury concerns.
WSH- no; Hotbly, Varlamov, Neuvirth are all good young goalies. A vet might be nice, but they will be fine without.

Bos- obviously not.
Toronto- maybe; Reimer+Gus could leave some concerns; a reasonably cheap vet could be valuable to them. Wouldn't threaten Reimer's time, could help him develop, but wouldn't cost the team games either. Burke may not want to spend that much.
MTL- Price, no
Ottawa- Probably not. Anderson+Lehner. If Lehner isn't ready they'll pursue someone else, but it probably wouldn't be Niitty. Than again, he may be a decent asset to have at the deadline, and than they could bring up Lehner full time.
Buff- Miller, Enroth; no.

DAL-No, Lehtonen is a good starter, and ownership issues mean having a 2 million back-up goalie would be foolish.
PHX- Maybe. Labarbara is the back-up, and I don't see an heir apparent. Likely can't afford Vokoun and definitely can't afford Bryz. May pursue a young goalie (Schneider, Bernier), but if they are shut out in FA and trade, Niittymaki would help. At the same time, you don't get 82 from Labarbara and Niity.
ANA- No; Hiller/Ellis.
LA- No; Quick/Bernier

Van- No; Lol/Schneider
CGY- No; Kipper
Minnesota- No; Backstrom
Edmonton- probably not; Khabi, Dubynk aren't great, but I see no need to make a move for Niitty at this time. If waived, they may be interested, but I think they want Dubynk as the future.
Colorado- maybe; Elliot is said to be their goalie of the future but isn't ready to play 40-50 games. They may try to grab a solid guy like Harding, Roloson or Giguere, or Schneider via trade (doubtful) and should IMO pursue Vokoun and Bryz (however, I've heard Av fans say they can't afford either in dollars or term). Again if they strike out, Niitty would be a good fit.


Detroit- no; It'll be interesting to see if they get in on Bryz/Vokoun given the loss of Rafalski. Howard is better than Niittymaki and I'd expect them to go in another direction.
Columbus- yes; Mason has high level talent (or had luck), but he cannot carry the load on his own. Niittymaki could shoulder the burden better than most who will be available. Again Harding, Giguere, or Roloson may be better options. They could also just re-sign Garon who was solid for them.
Nashville- no; goalie factory

St. Louis- probably not; Halak is #1. probably go with a kid or someone cheaper if Allen isn't ready.
Chicago- no; I think he'd be a good pair with Crawford, but for some reason I don't see Chicago helping out our cap problem.

Available true #1s: Bryzgalov, Vokoun, Nabokov*
Available borderline #1s: Roloson
Available 1As: Giguere, Harding, Theodore, Niittymaki (all have risks)
Quality back-ups: Garon, Conklin, Hedberg, maybe Smith

Can't speak to what is in Europe or which prospects (aside from Markstrom) are likely to fight for starting spots. The goalie market is a bit more open than last year, and I believe Anterro is one of the best available, and should draw some interest.


Last edited by matt trick: 06-10-2011 at 04:43 PM.
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06-10-2011, 05:58 PM
  #95
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The Flyers traded for Bryzgalov's rights. Bob may start the year in the minors just to play almost every game. Still, I don't think they'd want Nitty since they're in cap trouble anyway.

I think the two most realistic landing spots are Columbus and Florida.

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06-10-2011, 06:44 PM
  #96
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I think Florida could work. Vokoun is likely out, so Nitty + Markstrom would be a good tandem for the Panthers.

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06-10-2011, 06:49 PM
  #97
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Originally Posted by rangerssharks414 View Post
The Flyers traded for Bryzgalov's rights. Bob may start the year in the minors just to play almost every game. Still, I don't think they'd want Nitty since they're in cap trouble anyway.

I think the two most realistic landing spots are Columbus and Florida.
Bob, I believe played 60 games and would need to clear waivers. I'd be surprised if he made it through. I would think Ottawa would definitely pick him up, as he's more experienced than Lehner and quite talented himself.

Columbus would be a good spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TehJuxtaposer View Post
I think Florida could work. Vokoun is likely out, so Nitty + Markstrom would be a good tandem for the Panthers.
I agree with you both that Florida is one of the best spots, however, they'd need to do something with Clemmensen (or wait it out another year while Bob develops with Niitty+Clemmy).

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06-10-2011, 06:59 PM
  #98
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I think Florida could work. Vokoun is likely out, so Nitty + Markstrom would be a good tandem for the Panthers.
If Vokoun stays in Florida he obviously doesn't care about contending. I will be shocked if he doesn't sign cheap somewhere to be a 1a/1b to make a run for the cup finally.

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Old
06-10-2011, 07:18 PM
  #99
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Sign Drury, and Langenbrunner, then trade Mitchell for a 3rd round pick. American 3rd line.



FORWARDS
Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Devin Setoguchi ($1.800m)
Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Logan Couture ($1.241m) / Ryane Clowe ($3.625m)
Chris Drury ($2.400m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Jamie Langenbrunner ($1.500m)
Jamie McGinn ($0.825m) / Scott Nichol ($0.760m) / Kyle Wellwood ($0.650m)
Ben Eager ($0.565m)

DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.666m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
Douglas Murray ($2.500m) / Jason Demers ($1.250m)
Justin Braun ($0.875m) / Niclas Wallin ($1.350m)
Mike Moore ($0.512m)

GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.550m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,370,834; BONUSES: $587,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $29,166

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Old
06-10-2011, 07:21 PM
  #100
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Originally Posted by sweHockeypunk21 View Post
Sign Drury, and Langenbrunner, then trade Mitchell for a 3rd round pick. American 3rd line.



FORWARDS
Patrick Marleau ($6.900m) / Joe Thornton ($7.000m) / Devin Setoguchi ($1.800m)
Dany Heatley ($7.500m) / Logan Couture ($1.241m) / Ryane Clowe ($3.625m)
Chris Drury ($2.400m) / Joe Pavelski ($4.000m) / Jamie Langenbrunner ($1.500m)
Jamie McGinn ($0.825m) / Scott Nichol ($0.760m) / Kyle Wellwood ($0.650m)
Ben Eager ($0.565m)

DEFENSEMEN
Dan Boyle ($6.666m) / Marc-Edouard Vlasic ($3.100m)
Douglas Murray ($2.500m) / Jason Demers ($1.250m)
Justin Braun ($0.875m) / Niclas Wallin ($1.350m)
Mike Moore ($0.512m)

GOALTENDERS
Antti Niemi ($3.800m) / Thomas Greiss ($0.550m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $59,400,000; CAP PAYROLL: $59,370,834; BONUSES: $587,500
CAP SPACE (22-man roster): $29,166
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
I like that third line though.

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