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Old
08-01-2011, 04:45 PM
  #676
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
Spoiled? This has nothing to do with being spoiled. I'm not sitting here ripping cashman for not making a move. There wasnt anything out there to grab. And cashman is not going to deal our youth for the sake of making a trade.

I'm being realistic, this rotation as it stands, is mediocre. Plain and simple. If we didnt have CC who should without a doubt win the CY Young this year, we would be in 3rd place in the division.

Burnett and Hughes are both unreliable and unpredictable.

Garcia has it some days, and other days he gets hit hard because simply put he cant overpower guys.

Colon has been surprisingly good but does his body hold up the whole year? He already suffered one injury.

Nova has been on and off.


That's not the type of rotation that wins a world series. That's not even the type of rotation that wins a round in the playoffs. You cant go into the playoffs praying you'll have a #2 and #3 pitcher that can go out to the mound and win a game after CC pitches game one. That's not how you prepare for the playoffs. You cant be complacent.

No need for yankee homerism here, trying to make an argument for a staff for something it is not, which is reliable.
Then what rotation wins a world series? An ace in every slot? That's not realistic. This is what a solid rotation looks like when you don't go and buy every pitcher on the market. I think it's great that the Yankees are trusting kids and piecing something together. I'm tired of buying everything. I'm glad we didn't get Lee and I love that everyone doubts us. I've never been happier.


And who in the AL has so much better a rotation? Texas has noone that scares me, the Tigers are no better after Verlander than we are after CC, the Indians rotation isn't scary at all and Ubaldo is having a bad year, the Angels are no better after Weaver than we are after CC, and the Sox staff has underachieved all year. We're not competing with any staffs that are better than ours in the AL.

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08-01-2011, 04:48 PM
  #677
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No. ^__^
Hamels has a better ERA than Lee
Hamels has a better WHIP than Doc and Lee
Hamels has better H/9IP than Halladay and Lee
Hamels has a better HR/9IP than Lee
Hamels has a lower BB/9IP than Lee
Hamels has better WAR than Lee and trails only Halladay, Weaver, Sabathia, Verlander, Kershaw and Haren.

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08-01-2011, 04:51 PM
  #678
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Hamels has a better ERA than Lee
Hamels has a better WHIP than Doc and Lee
Hamels has better H/9IP than Halladay and Lee
Hamels has a better HR/9IP than Lee
Hamels has a lower BB/9IP than Lee
Hamels has better WAR than Lee and trails only Halladay, Weaver, Sabathia, Verlander, Kershaw and Haren.
The answer is still no. I'd rather face Hamels than Halladay and Lee any day.

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08-01-2011, 04:52 PM
  #679
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The answer is still no.
That's ridiculous.

If Jurrjens is an ace, so is Hamels.

I hate both of them, but Hamels has been every bit as good if not better.

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I'd rather face Hamels than Halladay and Lee any day.
Sounds like you're just saying that because of name recognition. Halladay? Sure. But it looks like Hamels has been better than Lee this year.

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08-01-2011, 04:55 PM
  #680
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Yankees rotation doesn't scare me, it's good but not one of the best league wide.

Angels, A's, Red Sox, Rays, Phillies, Braves, Cardinals and Giants rotations over the Yankees. With the assets and money the Yankees have, they should've added another top end pitcher in the rotation as guys like Nova, Burnette are inconsistent and Garcia and Colon are old and have struggled in the past.

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08-01-2011, 04:55 PM
  #681
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Originally Posted by BlueshirtBlitz View Post
That's ridiculous.

If Jurrjens is an ace, so is Hamels.

I hate both of them, but Hamels has been every bit as good if not better.



Sounds like you're just saying that because of name recognition. Halladay? Sure. But it looks like Hamels has been better than Lee this year.


I am set in my stance

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08-01-2011, 04:56 PM
  #682
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
Yankees rotation doesn't scare me, it's good but not one of the best league wide.

Angels, A's, Red Sox, Rays, Phillies, Braves, Cardinals and Giants rotations over the Yankees. With the assets and money the Yankees have, they should've added another top end pitcher in the rotation as guys like Nova, Burnette are inconsistent and Garcia and Colon are old and have struggled in the past.
The Yankees are 8th in the league in ERA. The Red Sox are 17th.

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08-01-2011, 04:57 PM
  #683
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That's ridiculous.

If Jurrjens is an ace, so is Hamels.

I hate both of them, but Hamels has been every bit as good if not better.



Sounds like you're just saying that because of name recognition. Halladay? Sure. But it looks like Hamels has been better than Lee this year.
If given the chance, I'd face Hamels over Lee as well in the playoffs because Lee steps his game up in the postseason. What makes me cringe however is that Hamels gets absolutely no credit of being an ace pitcher, when he's pitched as well as Halladay and Lee while having a WS ring.....

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08-01-2011, 05:00 PM
  #684
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The Yankees are 8th in the league in ERA. The Red Sox are 17th.
This is all on paper. I'd take CC over any pitcher the Red Sox have, but they have two aces to compliment their staff in Lester and Beckett. Buchholz also was pitching decently as a #3 guy on a postseason roster as he has the ability to steal games.

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08-01-2011, 05:02 PM
  #685
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This is all on paper. I'd take CC over any pitcher the Red Sox have, but they have two aces to compliment their staff in Lester and Beckett. Buchholz also was pitching decently as a #3 guy on a postseason roster as he has the ability to steal games.
Every stat you gave me on Hamels was on paper too, and only one of them was ERA which is far and away the most important. Besides the Yankees aren't just ahead of the Sox, they're nine sports ahead. they've been pitching much better.

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08-01-2011, 05:04 PM
  #686
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Then what rotation wins a world series? An ace in every slot? That's not realistic. This is what a solid rotation looks like when you don't go and buy every pitcher on the market. I think it's great that the Yankees are trusting kids and piecing something together. I'm tired of buying everything. I'm glad we didn't get Lee and I love that everyone doubts us. I've never been happier.


And who in the AL has so much better a rotation? Texas has noone that scares me, the Tigers are no better after Verlander than we are after CC, the Indians rotation isn't scary at all and Ubaldo is having a bad year, the Angels are no better after Weaver than we are after CC, and the Sox staff has underachieved all year. We're not competing with any staffs that are better than ours in the AL.
I never said there has to be an ace in every slot. But you need a formidable 1-3 to take into the playoffs. After CC, its all question marks. Theres no guarantees the guys behind him can go out and win you a game.

How are the Indians not scary? Ubaldo, Masterson, and Tomlin. All guys younger than Colon and Garcia. Masterson and Tomlin have been more impressive than Burnett and Garcia, even Colon. Ubaldo will bounce back and has looked good lately. He looks like he is returning to form and he is leaving the hitter friendly field in Denver

And the Angels. Weaver is the only guy there??? I guess you forgot about a guy named Haren as well as Santana.

Texas doesnt worry you? They lost Lee but they seem to be fine without him. Their staff has been stellar this year. I really dont think you're actually looking at these teams and how their pitchers are doing. You may not recognize their names because they are younger, but they have been doing a helluva job.

I'll give you the tigers as having a staff that doesnt impress. But other than that I'm not going to pretend our staff is just fine and better than the teams we will most likely be seeing in the playoffs.

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08-01-2011, 05:05 PM
  #687
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Every stat you gave me on Hamels was on paper too, and only one of them was ERA which is far and away the most important.
I'll take Lee and Halladay over Hamels easily. But to discredit him for not being an ace pitcher is false.

I'm sorry, I just don't feel confident with Garcia and Colon leading my pitching staff, especially since they were considered washed up a few years ago. Give me Beckett and Lester in their prime years over them.

It's like the Luongo-Lundqvist argument that we were both on the same page as with SaxMan as the other poster bashing Lundqvist based purely on stats.

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08-01-2011, 05:09 PM
  #688
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
I never said there has to be an ace in every slot. But you need a formidable 1-3 to take into the playoffs. After CC, its all question marks. Theres no guarantees the guys behind him can go out and win you a game.

How are the Indians not scary? Ubaldo, Masterson, and Tomlin. All guys younger than Colon and Garcia. Masterson and Tomlin have been more impressive than Burnett and Garcia, even Colon. Ubaldo will bounce back and has looked good lately. He looks like he is returning to form and he is leaving the hitter friendly field in Denver

And the Angels. Weaver is the only guy there??? I guess you forgot about a guy named Haren as well as Santana.

Texas doesnt worry you? They lost Lee but they seem to be fine without him. Their staff has been stellar this year. I really dont think you're actually looking at these teams and how their pitchers are doing. You may not recognize their names because they are younger, but they have been doing a helluva job.

I'll give you the tigers as having a staff that doesnt impress. But other than that I'm not going to pretend our staff is just fine and better than the teams we will most likely be seeing in the playoffs.
We have a better ERA than Texas and Cleveland. It comes down to how many runs you're giving up. The Yankees have been giving up less runs than most other contenders all year, combined with the second best lineup in baseball and an incredible bullpen.

If we managed to win a World Series in '09 with Burnett as our number two, I don't see how this rotation will be a problem.

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08-01-2011, 05:10 PM
  #689
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Originally Posted by Kershaw View Post
I'll take Lee and Halladay over Hamels easily. But to discredit him for not being an ace pitcher is false.

I'm sorry, I just don't feel confident with Garcia and Colon leading my pitching staff, especially since they were considered washed up a few years ago. Give me Beckett and Lester in their prime years over them.

It's like the Luongo-Lundqvist argument that we were both on the same page as with SaxMan as the other poster bashing Lundqvist based purely on stats.
You can't compare this to a goalie argument. Goalie's depend on their teams a hell of lot more than pitchers do.

And I am confident with Garcia and Colon right now. If noone else is then that's their heartburn, not mine.

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08-01-2011, 05:23 PM
  #690
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We have a better ERA than Texas and Cleveland. It comes down to how many runs you're giving up. The Yankees have been giving up less runs than most other contenders all year, combined with the second best lineup in baseball and an incredible bullpen.

If we managed to win a World Series in '09 with Burnett as our number two, I don't see how this rotation will be a problem.
You do realize that more pitchers are used in the regular season, right? That you're going to have guys who might only appear in 5-10 games and dont do well thus they bump a team's ERA. Texas and Cleveland's top 3 starters are better than the Yankees.

In the 2009 playoffs the yankees went with a 3 man rotation, catch my drift. Whether Burnett pitched game 2 or not, he was not the #2 guy. Pettitte was and he ended the postseason with the most wins out of CC/AJ/Pettitte, at 4 wins. CC had 3. AJ had just 1. Pettitte was always a great postseason pitcher. Garcia and Colon? Not so much. They arent andy pettitte. You cannot possibly compare the 2009 yankees to the 2011 staff.

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08-01-2011, 05:26 PM
  #691
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Originally Posted by Jagr68NYR94Leetch View Post
You do realize that more pitchers are used in the regular season, right? That you're going to have guys who might only appear in 5-10 games and dont do well thus they bump a team's ERA. Texas and Cleveland's top 3 starters are better than the Yankees.

In the 2009 playoffs the yankees went with a 3 man rotation, catch my drift. Whether Burnett pitched game 2 or not, he was not the #2 guy. Pettitte was and he ended the postseason with the most wins out of CC/AJ/Pettitte, at 4 wins. CC had 3. AJ had just 1. Pettitte was always a great postseason pitcher. Garcia and Colon? Not so much. They arent andy pettitte. You cannot possibly compare the 2009 yankees to the 2011 staff.
Garcia has a .750 winning pct in the playoffs...

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08-01-2011, 05:27 PM
  #692
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Funny thing about all this debating over the Yankees rotation is I constantly ***** about everything, and the one thing I don't ***** about is the thing everyone hates

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08-01-2011, 06:05 PM
  #693
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Garcia has a .750 winning pct in the playoffs...
C'mon you're kidding with this right?

The last time Garcia pitched in the postseason was 2005. Back then he had power stuff that he could put by batters.

It's 2011.

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08-01-2011, 06:06 PM
  #694
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C'mon you're kidding with this right?

The last time Garcia pitched in the postseason was 2005. Back then he had power stuff that he could put by batters.

It's 2011.
Hey I'm gonna believe in my team who is in a great situation right now. If you wanna spend your time pointing out every little problem they have, then go right ahead. Right now they have the 3 best record in the majors. That gives them a really good shot at a world title, no matter what people wanna say.

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08-01-2011, 06:19 PM
  #695
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Hey I'm gonna believe in my team who is in a great situation right now. If you wanna spend your time pointing out every little problem they have, then go right ahead. Right now they have the 3 best record in the majors. That gives them a really good shot at a world title, no matter what people wanna say.


It's not about believing your team or being a true fan (not that you said that) or whatever. It has absolutely nothing to do with that. The problem is you have this blind faith in your team.

I'm not pointing out every little problem the team has. I love my yankees, we have a great team imo. We have had to battle through adversity with all the injuries. When everyone is healthy we have the deepest bench with guys like Chavez, Jones, Nunez, Cervelli and the deepest bullpen with Robertson, Soriano, Marte, Chamberland, Logan (who hasnt been great), Ayala, Noesi, Rivera. Etc.

But the problem is the SP. We are weak there. Yeah we have the 3rd best record in the league. You're not going to be playing the orioles, blue jays, royals, mariners, etc. in the postseason. Records do not mean anything in the postseason, nor does having a solid 1-5 SP. All you need is a 1-3 SP. And the yankees 1-3 is weak.

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08-01-2011, 06:23 PM
  #696
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It's not about believing your team or being a true fan (not that you said that) or whatever. It has absolutely nothing to do with that. The problem is you have this blind faith in your team.

I'm not pointing out every little problem the team has. I love my yankees, we have a great team imo. We have had to battle through adversity with all the injuries. When everyone is healthy we have the deepest bench with guys like Chavez, Jones, Nunez, Cervelli and the deepest bullpen with Robertson, Soriano, Marte, Chamberland, Logan (who hasnt been great), Ayala, Noesi, Rivera. Etc.

But the problem is the SP. We are weak there. Yeah we have the 3rd best record in the league. You're not going to be playing the orioles, blue jays, royals, mariners, etc. in the postseason. Records do not mean anything in the postseason, nor does having a solid 1-5 SP. All you need is a 1-3 SP. And the yankees 1-3 is weak.
It's not blind faith. I just think they can prove alot of people wrong in October. That's my honest point of view. Trust me, I'm known to complain, and I'd be the first to complain. I really don't have anything I wanna complain about.

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08-01-2011, 07:01 PM
  #697
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Reyes has NOT been the same since he came back. He's been pretty sub-par since coming back from the DL.

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08-01-2011, 07:04 PM
  #698
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There's so much I fear with the Yankees. CC is going to have huge pressure for the first games of series. He can easily go head to head with some one give up 2 runs and lose. Burnett is crap, 82 million for a guy who makes pies. Garcia? Yeah he's been pretty good but he throws junk. Colon, how soon before his body breaks down? Hughes, since the all star break last year has been awful. The league figured him out, he throws 2 pitches. As for the lineup, don't get me started with Captain Ground Out. He belongs at the bottom of the lineup. And I don't wanna hear this loyalty crap, yeah he's done everything here and been a legend, but you can't run an organization with your heart. Some people here felt the Yankees were insulting Jeter during their contract talks, are you kidding me? Jeter's not worth half his salary. I'm done for now, discuss

Edit: you can't have a guy hitting .260 and is a constant double play/ strike out threat at the top of the lineup.

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08-01-2011, 07:13 PM
  #699
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And wow, Keith is just lambasting Murphy here.

How about instead of attacking Murph, one of your best offensive players, you talk about how useless Bay has been, or how bad defensively David Wright has been at 3rd (as I type this, he throws a double play ball away.)

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08-01-2011, 07:18 PM
  #700
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There's so much I fear with the Yankees. CC is going to have huge pressure for the first games of series. He can easily go head to head with some one give up 2 runs and lose. Burnett is crap, 82 million for a guy who makes pies. Garcia? Yeah he's been pretty good but he throws junk. Colon, how soon before his body breaks down? Hughes, since the all star break last year has been awful. The league figured him out, he throws 2 pitches. As for the lineup, don't get me started with Captain Ground Out. He belongs at the bottom of the lineup. And I don't wanna hear this loyalty crap, yeah he's done everything here and been a legend, but you can't run an organization with your heart. Some people here felt the Yankees were insulting Jeter during their contract talks, are you kidding me? Jeter's not worth half his salary. I'm done for now, discuss

Edit: you can't have a guy hitting .260 and is a constant double play/ strike out threat at the top of the lineup.
Jeter has been great since coming off the DL. Why all the concern? The Yankees are a great team.

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