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What is being done about Czech rep and slovakias bad junior results?

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Old
04-25-2011, 05:40 PM
  #1
cheerupmurray
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What is being done about Czech rep and slovakias bad junior results?

I would really like to see Czechia and Slovakia start producing players again in big numbers. Is there anything concrete being done at this point to turn things around?

I found a old article from 2002 where a swedish scout went to Slavia Prag and was very impressed with how the players trained and reported back to the Swedish hockey federation about what could been done better in Sweden. Then Czech rep. was a rolemodel that Sweden should learn from.

2002 Czech republic had 27 drafted players. In the four latest draft Czech republic have only had 14 drafted players. What went wrong? How could things go bad so fast? And most importantly what is being done about it to change things around?

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04-25-2011, 06:22 PM
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slovakiasnextone
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Slovakia: Nothing big. The WC is played in Slovakia this year, so whoīd care about some U18 team getting relegated....

Czech republic: You will find some answers when you read the Czech prospects/Czech NT threads. They are starting to create hockey acadamies tarting next year. Also thereīs more contact with top countries at the international level planned- as illustrated by the U20 team playing Swedish junior teams and the U16 team playing J18 Elit teams just about a week ago....or the U18 team had a tour in North America, playing NAHL teams I think....

As for how it could get so bad so fast: Too little people interested in the well being of the development system and too many people interested in other gains.....

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04-25-2011, 06:36 PM
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Slovakia: corruption, corruption and corruption

Hockey fans complain at phorums, but federation is doing nothing... I hope something will change in near future... Am I naive?

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05-06-2011, 12:15 AM
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hockeyman001
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I thought this was an interesting topic because the IIHF did an interview recently with Pavol Demitra and one of the questions that came up was this very thing.

The main argument being made that I have heard from Slovak friends is that the previous government before indepdendence for both Czech and Slovak Republics certainly was full of problems, but it sponsored hockey in the country which created a lot of really good players like Bondra and in Czech like Jagr.

Now, since government does not sponsor with money youth hockey so much, the cost of playing is too much for many Czech and Slovak families so less people are playing and getting good coaching.

Here are Demitra's exact words on the topic when asked (source http://www.iihf.com/channels-11/iihf...html?tx_ttnews[backPid]=4926&cHash=6e0173c4b7 ):

Quote:
Even though Slovakia finished fourth in the Olympics, the country hasn't reached the quarter-finals of the World Championship since 2007 and hasn't medalled since 2003. In this year's World U18 Championship, Slovakia was relegated to Division I. Should we be worried about the present and future states of Slovak hockey?

Pavol: "Yeah, I think Slovakia has a lot of problems. Hopefully our government will step up and help hockey, and other sports too. In Slovakia, hockey’s getting so expensive and not too many families can afford it. I think that’s the biggest problem for Slovak hockey right now. We don’t have enough guys, enough coaches, and everything is kind of slowing down. Especially in the last 10 years, we haven’t really built up any great players. Gabby [Marian Gaborik] is, I think, the last young guy who can be a superstar. That’s what we’re missing. Hopefully our country steps up and helps hockey, because hockey is one of the top things that people follow in Slovakia."

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05-06-2011, 03:45 AM
  #5
slovakiasnextone
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyman001 View Post
I thought this was an interesting topic because the IIHF did an interview recently with Pavol Demitra and one of the questions that came up was this very thing.

The main argument being made that I have heard from Slovak friends is that the previous government before indepdendence for both Czech and Slovak Republics certainly was full of problems, but it sponsored hockey in the country which created a lot of really good players like Bondra and in Czech like Jagr.

Now, since government does not sponsor with money youth hockey so much, the cost of playing is too much for many Czech and Slovak families so less people are playing and getting good coaching.

Here are Demitra's exact words on the topic when asked (source http://www.iihf.com/channels-11/iihf...html?tx_ttnews[backPid]=4926&cHash=6e0173c4b7 ):
Well, I personally think this is a view of things that people involved in hocke have, which is kind of limited in my opinion.....the government is not giving enough money and blah, blah, blah..... No matter how much money you invest into the sport, when your whole system is wrong, you are not going to bring up superstar players and the fact is that the whole system in Slovakia is wrong..... When you have a system where everyone gets to play equal until the kids are 13-14 it is likely that it will hinder developing individual talent.....if your coaches donīt know and use the newest methods and still coach like in the last century, they will hardly produce players who are as good as the ones from countries where the hockey people have moved on.....if the kids onl ever practice during their official practices and donīt do other sports in their free time etc., they will hardly be as good as the previous generations..... And this is just a few of the problems money has nothing to do with.....

And even though Iīm a hocke fan I have to ask why should the government invest money into one of the most expensive sports like hockey ahead of investing money into education, science and health facilities and other infrastructure, which is just as or even more lacking here as hockey. You can make the argument that sport is important for health and kids too, but if from the money that one hockey rink costs there can be build 10 other sports ground, why should they prefer the hockey rink?And thatīs avoiding the fact that hockey gets the most money and even more so the fact that the people who are directly involved in hockey are some of the biggest thiefs in this country.

And even if the government gave money for example to build 10 rinks in 10 towns in Slovakia how do you think it would end? Even if half the money wouldnīt end in someoneīs pocket, either the state or the towns would have to pay for running those rinks...the very same towns that are in huge debts and usually canīt even afford money for repairing roads..... And at the same time I believe that we have enough private people etc. who are willing to build the rinks and run them themselves if they are given some advantages (for example if they get the estate where the rink is build for some symbolic prize), and Gáboríkīs rink is an example that such a rink can sustain itself. However even though there was almost a dozen of similar projects in recent years only a few made it and why? Burecraucy. Former Slovan Bratislava player Pištek is involved in building a new sports academy including a hockey rink in Bratislava and he says they needed 72 (!) different permits to even start building.

Also, I think some of our older players and the chiefs in hockey development are idealizing what the communist did for hockey (even not looking at the reasons why they did it-panem et circenses), for example they always claim how everyone got equipment for free. Yeah, of course they did, some old quipment that had been used many times before they got it. Do you think our "westernized" kids of today would be okay with such old unmodern equipment. And at the same time over the past few years there have been programmes in which the sponsors of hockey in the country donated thousand of sets of equipments for the youngest kids and most clubs have a programme in which they actually borrow equipment.

One more example of itīs not just about money: AFAIK a small hockey club HC Topoľčany, which is however responsible for bringing up guys like Šatan and Višňovský in the past has abolished all the yearly fees that the kids had to pay for playing hockey in the club. So you could say that the financial load on parents and kids of this club is much lower than in other clubs. But do you think that just because of this money part they are going to produce as many or more good players as for example Dukla Trenčín does? I sincerely doubt that....

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05-06-2011, 04:32 AM
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Thank you for sharing your views on this. I always find it fascinating to hear some of the comments:

Quote:
Originally Posted by slovakiasnextone
No matter how much money you invest into the sport, when your whole system is wrong, you are not going to bring up superstar players and the fact is that the whole system in Slovakia is wrong..... When you have a system where everyone gets to play equal until the kids are 13-14 it is likely that it will hinder developing individual talent.....if your coaches donīt know and use the newest methods and still coach like in the last century, they will hardly produce players who are as good as the ones from countries where the hockey people have moved on.....if the kids onl ever practice during their official practices and donīt do other sports in their free time etc., they will hardly be as good as the previous generations..... And this is just a few of the problems money has nothing to do with.....
This sounds a lot like the USA too. There is a lot of politics among parents in who plays more, and most leagues try to get kids playing equally. Also there are more distractions than ever in the world and it really takes a special young person to want to become great at hockey and actually take the time to do it. And I also think it takes special coaches to make the kids want to play that way and help them get there. Often times I think in both our countries, the coaches and people running the leagues do not have the best interests of the kids at heart.

The USA was in a similar position a few years ago...not producing a lot of top talent, and it took a little while to fix. But one of the things they did here was create a program called the USA Hockey National Team Development Program which would identify promising young players (U18) then bring them in to train with just that one program, where they could control the coaches and so on. Then the teams (there is an U17 and an U18) both play against junior teams (U17) and college/university teams (U18). Basically it is a lot like HK Orange 20 in the Slovak Extraliga. Many of the top USA players today come from that program.

I am curious though if you think that HK Orange 20 will work in the end. Much has been said of their bad record during the Extraliga season, but since the development program worked here in the USA I wonder if you think that HK Orange 20 will work in the end in Slovakia? or do you think the problem runs deeper and must be addressed when the players are still very young (which sounded like some of the things you said)?


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05-06-2011, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyman001 View Post
I am curious though if you think that HK Orange 20 will work in the end. Much has been said of their bad record during the Extraliga season, but since the development program worked here in the USA I wonder if you think that HK Orange 20 will work in the end in Slovakia? or do you think the problem runs deeper and must be addressed when the players are still very young (which sounded like some of the things you said)?
To be honest I dont think HK Orange 20 is bad in the core. I have two problems with it:
a) you cant save the bad development of the players in their nineteens... aka problem is deeper, altought this is nice try.
b) I would rather see them in 1st divison (1st Extraleague 2nd I. division), because it is not very useful when you lose almost every game

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05-06-2011, 05:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hockeyman001 View Post
Thank you for sharing your views on this. I always find it fascinating to hear some of the comments:



This sounds a lot like the USA too. There is a lot of politics among parents in who plays more, and most leagues try to get kids playing equally. Also there are more distractions than ever in the world and it really takes a special young person to want to become great at hockey and actually take the time to do it. And I also think it takes special coaches to make the kids want to play that way and help them get there. Often times I think in both our countries, the coaches and people running the leagues do not have the best interests of the kids at heart.

The USA was in a similar position a few years ago...not producing a lot of top talent, and it took a little while to fix. But one of the things they did here was create a program called the USA Hockey National Team Development Program which would identify promising young players (U18) then bring them in to train with just that one program, where they could control the coaches and so on. Then the teams (there is an U17 and an U18) both play against junior teams (U17) and college/university teams (U18). Basically it is a lot like HK Orange 20 in the Slovak Extraliga. Many of the top USA players today come from that program.

I am curious though if you think that HK Orange 20 will work in the end. Much has been said of their bad record during the Extraliga season, but since the development program worked here in the USA I wonder if you think that HK Orange 20 will work in the end in Slovakia? or do you think the problem runs deeper and must be addressed when the players are still very young (which sounded like some of the things you said)?
Youīre welcome, itīs interesting to see your comments about USA hockey as well.

The reason why everyone plays equal until the kids are 13-14 is not the parents, it is the official system that the federation advocates, every one minute the reffs have to whistle, so there are required line changes and everyone gets to play equal. This AFAIK is the officially recommended system of play even by the IIHF, however for children under tha age of 10- it is meant not to scare children away from playing hockey if all they do is sit on the bench, however it is a mystery to me why the Slovak federation advocates this for older kids as well.

As for the U20 programme, yes I believe that issues that should be adressed with are already with the youngest kids and not with almost grown players- often the players that come into the programme canīt even skate properly (as is visible everytime they play international competition). In my eyes there are two huge differences between the USNTDP and the Slovak programme: 1) the players that the US and the Slovak coaches get into their hands in those two programmes are totally different, the reason why the US programme works so well is because the material tehy get into their hands is high quality, this kind of gets back to what I said earlier that the problems should be adressed already at much earlier age and 2) which also kind of ties in with 1 it is a huge difference when you start working properly with 15-16 year old kids and when you start with 18-19 year old kids.... Also a major problem which such programmes is (even when you look away from the results and from teh fact it doesnīt really produce individual players) is that it costs a whole load of money and it is aimed only at a very small group of players..... Also, the reasons why the programme was created in Slovakia is different than in the US, it was primarily created because players werenīt getting ice-time in the top league and especially for the ones that arenīt good enough to play in their own teams.....which again goes back to the fact that something wasnīt done with these players properly at a much earlier stage....

begbee, you will get your dream already next season, when they play like falf their games in the 1st Division.....I think that is even more of throwing out money for nothing than them playing in the Extraliga....Extraliga itself is pretty weak and they can get all teh bad habits from the players there.....playing a semi-professional level league that is close to the level of Polish league or the Hungarian-Romanian MOL liga will do absolutely nothing for the playersī development (well it might do some negative things)....if they should play 1.liga they can easily play there on the teams that are already there rather than paying the money which it costs to have the team together....a lot of them would actually playing there already if it wasnīt for the U20 team and wouldnīt have problem to score PPG there.....itīs not like weīre in Sweden or Czech republic were they have strong 2nd tier leagues.....


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05-06-2011, 05:45 AM
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Well, exactly what kind of good development is when you are defending your own zone without puck for 60 min? How to avoid an icing?


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05-06-2011, 09:09 AM
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Well, exactly what kind of good development is when you are defending you own zone without puck for 60 min? How to avoid an icing?
exactly, Mikes only taught them to skate backward and play defence. The whole project was/is nonsense. Itīs necessary to start improving development system from the youngest kids.

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05-06-2011, 09:20 AM
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Originally Posted by slovakiasnextone View Post
Well, I personally think this is a view of things that people involved in hocke have, which is kind of limited in my opinion.....the government is not giving enough money and blah, blah, blah..... No matter how much money you invest into the sport, when your whole system is wrong, you are not going to bring up superstar players and the fact is that the whole system in Slovakia is wrong..... When you have a system where everyone gets to play equal until the kids are 13-14 it is likely that it will hinder developing individual talent.....if your coaches donīt know and use the newest methods and still coach like in the last century, they will hardly produce players who are as good as the ones from countries where the hockey people have moved on.....if the kids onl ever practice during their official practices and donīt do other sports in their free time etc., they will hardly be as good as the previous generations..... And this is just a few of the problems money has nothing to do with.....

And even though Iīm a hocke fan I have to ask why should the government invest money into one of the most expensive sports like hockey ahead of investing money into education, science and health facilities and other infrastructure, which is just as or even more lacking here as hockey. You can make the argument that sport is important for health and kids too, but if from the money that one hockey rink costs there can be build 10 other sports ground, why should they prefer the hockey rink?And thatīs avoiding the fact that hockey gets the most money and even more so the fact that the people who are directly involved in hockey are some of the biggest thiefs in this country.

And even if the government gave money for example to build 10 rinks in 10 towns in Slovakia how do you think it would end? Even if half the money wouldnīt end in someoneīs pocket, either the state or the towns would have to pay for running those rinks...the very same towns that are in huge debts and usually canīt even afford money for repairing roads..... And at the same time I believe that we have enough private people etc. who are willing to build the rinks and run them themselves if they are given some advantages (for example if they get the estate where the rink is build for some symbolic prize), and Gáboríkīs rink is an example that such a rink can sustain itself. However even though there was almost a dozen of similar projects in recent years only a few made it and why? Burecraucy. Former Slovan Bratislava player Pištek is involved in building a new sports academy including a hockey rink in Bratislava and he says they needed 72 (!) different permits to even start building.

Also, I think some of our older players and the chiefs in hockey development are idealizing what the communist did for hockey (even not looking at the reasons why they did it-panem et circenses), for example they always claim how everyone got equipment for free. Yeah, of course they did, some old quipment that had been used many times before they got it. Do you think our "westernized" kids of today would be okay with such old unmodern equipment. And at the same time over the past few years there have been programmes in which the sponsors of hockey in the country donated thousand of sets of equipments for the youngest kids and most clubs have a programme in which they actually borrow equipment.

One more example of itīs not just about money: AFAIK a small hockey club HC Topoľčany, which is however responsible for bringing up guys like Šatan and Višňovský in the past has abolished all the yearly fees that the kids had to pay for playing hockey in the club. So you could say that the financial load on parents and kids of this club is much lower than in other clubs. But do you think that just because of this money part they are going to produce as many or more good players as for example Dukla Trenčín does? I sincerely doubt that....
Well said

The big problem is the fact that 20 years ago teams organized selection camps for youngest kids, there were like 50 or 70 kids and 25 the most skilled/talented were taken from. Nowadays teams organized recruitings and basically every kid goes through due to low figure of kids wanting to play hockey. And majority of them are not really skilled... Many of them are brought by parents who wants any sport activity for their kids instead of TV and computer...

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05-06-2011, 09:57 AM
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begbee, youīre right of course, but my point wasnīt that the U20 in Extraliga > the U20 in 1.liga, the point was that it is about as bad and a waste of money as most of these kids could actually get good spots on the 1.liga teams themselves without any outside support.

czechexpert, I agree that is one of the worst things, however why is it like that? of course there are reasons that canīt be really changed so easily- like for example the low amounts of kids born each year. Tough to find elite sports talents between like 50 000 and less kids in each birth year.

Maybe it is because the whole system of the PE in the country is absolutely wrong and is a huge factor why the whole population including those kids waning to play hockey are not really skilled. (of course you have to have natural skills as well, but when there is nothing done about developing about motoric skills the results will be much worse when there is. Is it really all just because these kids are lazy and donīt want to take part in PE and similar stuff? Itīs not so long that I went to school myself and I can say that the teachers were giving us little to none motivation do actually take part in PE and I have ften found myself slcking off there because the way it was done I considered it a waste of time. (Of course Iīve always had different priorities than sports and never ever considered doing any of it on a more than absolutely amateur level, but still....)

It is also said that one of the reasons why the players arenīt as good is because they donīt do any other sports and such in their free time, however I gre up in the same time as our current generation players in their late teens and early 20īs did and the fact as I remember is is that we spent most of the 1990s and early 00s all days outside playing all kinds of sports (though from my observation sadly we were the last ones to do so) and stuff and even despite the fact the players of this generation are pretty weak...

The lack of youngsters had been a huge problem for Slovak hockey for year and years and what exactly have the competent people done to change it? We canīt just expect that the same numbers of kids will show up as did in the 1980s, we have to realize that it is 2011 and we have to use other ways- even if it includes searching for the needle in the haystack (for example I remember that Richard Pánik didnīt start playing hockey until he was 10 and the coach of his youth hockey team noticed him when he was recruiting new players for the hockey team, similar with Jaro Halák, who i think was spoted playing ball hockey by his first youth coach).

Also, we have the IHWC played here right now and we have dozens and dozens programmes meant to draw fans, including kids to hockey, yet I have not heard about even a single one that would be aimed at actually recruiting players.... why is that? f not now when then? When weīre playing in Division I?

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05-06-2011, 05:28 PM
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Originally Posted by slovakiasnextone View Post

czechexpert, I agree that is one of the worst things, however why is it like that? of course there are reasons that canīt be really changed so easily- like for example the low amounts of kids born each year. Tough to find elite sports talents between like 50 000 and less kids in each birth year.

Maybe it is because the whole system of the PE in the country is absolutely wrong and is a huge factor why the whole population including those kids waning to play hockey are not really skilled. (of course you have to have natural skills as well, but when there is nothing done about developing about motoric skills the results will be much worse when there is. Is it really all just because these kids are lazy and donīt want to take part in PE and similar stuff? Itīs not so long that I went to school myself and I can say that the teachers were giving us little to none motivation do actually take part in PE and I have ften found myself slcking off there because the way it was done I considered it a waste of time. (Of course Iīve always had different priorities than sports and never ever considered doing any of it on a more than absolutely amateur level, but still....)

It is also said that one of the reasons why the players arenīt as good is because they donīt do any other sports and such in their free time, however I gre up in the same time as our current generation players in their late teens and early 20īs did and the fact as I remember is is that we spent most of the 1990s and early 00s all days outside playing all kinds of sports (though from my observation sadly we were the last ones to do so) and stuff and even despite the fact the players of this generation are pretty weak...

The lack of youngsters had been a huge problem for Slovak hockey for year and years and what exactly have the competent people done to change it? We canīt just expect that the same numbers of kids will show up as did in the 1980s, we have to realize that it is 2011 and we have to use other ways- even if it includes searching for the needle in the haystack (for example I remember that Richard Pánik didnīt start playing hockey until he was 10 and the coach of his youth hockey team noticed him when he was recruiting new players for the hockey team, similar with Jaro Halák, who i think was spoted playing ball hockey by his first youth coach).

Also, we have the IHWC played here right now and we have dozens and dozens programmes meant to draw fans, including kids to hockey, yet I have not heard about even a single one that would be aimed at actually recruiting players.... why is that? f not now when then? When weīre playing in Division I?
I agree with everything you said. And I donīt think kids are the biggest problem. Everything starts in families-parents.
And of course, both Czech and Slovakian hockey federation are mainly responsible for failure of hockey in both countries.

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05-07-2011, 11:08 AM
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the problem also by the kids.

for some years ago, teams must make some selections from kids, they wanted to play hockey. Now, they are happy, if they can find enough kids.
There is a lot more oportunities this days. Sure, is is also in Sweden, USA, Rusia, but they have much more people living there. We, as a small country, we have with this phenom much bigger issue.

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05-08-2011, 03:57 AM
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exactly, Mikes only taught them to skate backward and play defence. The whole project was/is nonsense. Itīs necessary to start improving development system from the youngest kids.
Well, Mikeš is now gone and hopefully he has some other system of play for Slovan....though Iīve been meaning to ask you this for a while, what do yout think about Anton Tomko being appointed the new U20 coach?

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05-08-2011, 01:22 PM
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I agree with everything you said. And I donīt think kids are the biggest problem. Everything starts in families-parents.
And of course, both Czech and Slovakian hockey federation are mainly responsible for failure of hockey in both countries.
Even though this http://hokej.pravda.sk/deti-uz-neved..._sk_hhokej_p28 is already three years all, I think it summs up pretty nicely a lot of what has been said here already regarding the kids and their parents and so on....

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05-17-2011, 03:49 PM
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Well, hockey gear avalaibility is something government can only hardly influence. I see the biggest problem in lack of government support in construction of new hockey rinks, to make hockey avalaible for wider masses. Also, some help in running those existing ones wouldnīt hurt, while operation of hockey rink is solely on owner (municipalities). In my hometown, hockey rink was abandoned due to high operational costs and later demolished, because municipality couldnīt afford to operate it.

Due to lack of rinks our hockey base is small, f.e. in Levice - N.Zamky - Komarno area where lives roughly 370k ppl are only 2 rinks.

Some figures


Slovakia

Pop.5,477,038
Registered players: 8671
Hockey rinks: 66 (45 indoor)
1 hockey rink on 82k ppl

Czech rep.
Pop.10,190,213
Registered players: 99 462
Hockey rinks: 180 (157 indoor)
1 hockey rink on 56k ppl


Switzerland

Pop. 7,639,961
Registered players: 26 989
Hockey rinks: 187 (156 indoor)
1 hockey rink on 40k ppl

Canada
Pop. 34,030,589
Registered players: 577 077
Hockey rinks: 13 475 (2475 indoor)
1 hockey rink on 2525 ppl


I donīt think that Slovakia now underperforms, we were only put to our place while succesfull early 2000s era was kinda anomaly and our golden generation of player heavily overperformed.




Last edited by kajoo: 05-17-2011 at 03:59 PM.
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05-17-2011, 04:57 PM
  #18
slovakiasnextone
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Well, hockey gear avalaibility is something government can only hardly influence. I see the biggest problem in lack of government support in construction of new hockey rinks, to make hockey avalaible for wider masses. Also, some help in running those existing ones wouldnīt hurt, while operation of hockey rink is solely on owner (municipalities). In my hometown, hockey rink was abandoned due to high operational costs and later demolished, because municipality couldnīt afford to operate it.

Due to lack of rinks our hockey base is small, f.e. in Levice - N.Zamky - Komarno area where lives roughly 370k ppl are only 2 rinks.

Some figures


Slovakia

Pop.5,477,038
Registered players: 8671
Hockey rinks: 66 (45 indoor)
1 hockey rink on 82k ppl

Czech rep.
Pop.10,190,213
Registered players: 99 462
Hockey rinks: 180 (157 indoor)
1 hockey rink on 56k ppl


Switzerland

Pop. 7,639,961
Registered players: 26 989
Hockey rinks: 187 (156 indoor)
1 hockey rink on 40k ppl

Canada
Pop. 34,030,589
Registered players: 577 077
Hockey rinks: 13 475 (2475 indoor)
1 hockey rink on 2525 ppl


I donīt think that Slovakia now underperforms, we were only put to our place while succesfull early 2000s era was kinda anomaly and our golden generation of player heavily overperformed.


That with the rinks is something I am ABSOLUTELY ABSOLUTELY against! The government should not be building the rinks and has no reason to- that simply is not their job! The government can use such big money that the rinks would cost for many other cheaper things that would benefiut more people and help the country more whether sports related or not. And additionally:

1. We currently have 45 indoor rinks in Slovakia and will probably a few more by 2012, you list the rinks per population, but maybe we should rather count with the number of hockey players- 10 000and we will very quickly come to the conclusion that we in a way actually have way more rinks than we need for ice-hockey- IMO the majority of teams have trouble to get 20 kids in a year- and they get them also from other towns nearby that have no rink etc. While I agree that we might need some new rinks we have to be very economical about it- it either should be practice rinks in bigger towns where they donīt have and have an actualy problem with ice-time with just one rink or then in some of the towns with population around 10k, which donīt have it and where there is no other town with a rink very nearby, this seems to be mostly Eastern Slovak town, where the sport seems to be underdeveloped asides from Košice and the Tatra/Spiš region. And the other region would be Southern Slovakia, where the sport is even more undeveloped, but I dunno it seems to me that for some reasons hockey is not that popular with our Hungarians as it has become in Hungary recently and maybe it is caused by the lack of rinks/clubs there, but the truth is that they have historically exceled in other sports than hockey. Sure, we can build 30-40 practice rink, but what will we do with them? They will end up empty and we will lose money not only from building them but for running them as well.

2. Please, no state funded rinks, weīre not in Belarus here, but in a market economy. As I already said before, the money should be used better by our government. The primary role of the government etc. in this (asides from creating a conception of development of sport overall, but thatīs pretty unrelated to the rinks) should be the removal of all the burecracy when someone actually wants to build a rink. Iīve already said this too- thereīs recently been a lot of projects by private investors willing to not only build the rinks, but also run them for a pretty long time if they get a few benefits- like buying the ground for a symboli price... and those people theyīre not dumb, they realize that evem though they might lose some money at the start, it will return to them and that the rink will able to sustain itself....just ask the Gáboríks...in this situation I see no need for state funded rinks and I have been avoiding the fact how much will the price for it raise when the state/local government get involved into it (the glaring example of Orange Arena)........

I also disagree that the succes of the NT in the past was just overperfomring or that we are not underperforming.....of course there might have been some luck etc, in it as well, but those players were primarily the result of a good development system- the one thing that we are absolutely lacking right now....and again with the rinks- those guys as kids had even much less rinks than we have today (of course the winter might have been a bit longer/colder back then)....

And the reason for our bad results recently is: well, the lack of the development system and with the mens team it is a combination of numerous things- one of them being that many players have been underperforming (when you look at the way they play for their teams) and ofc the federation also should take a part of the blame here, because I believe that the staff was a big part of the recent disasters as well....but what can you expect when you have guys like Lintner saying during the game against Germany: "theyīre playing trap, and our Slovak players canīt reduce themselves to playing something like that"....asides from the fact that what Germans were plazing at the WC was not even the trap they used to play, when you have a player who would probably made the final roster if not for the injury saying something like that, there is no wonder that we are *********

Personally, I see three big problems not only with hockey, but with this country as a whole and Iīm not sure which to put first: apathy- someone got some money into his pocket from public money? Ahh, never mind, everyone steals in Slovakia, everyone knows that, the hockey NT failed? people here might realize exactly where the problems are and what kind of **** happens, but they either close their eyes, because even if they tried to do something about it noone would listen, lack of self-reflection- whether it is sports or politics, there just are no people who would be able to take the blame and say hey, it was my fault or it was partly my fault as well (and it seems we have injected Hanlon with this too, when you compare his statements with the Swiss coach Simpson, who at least confessed that it was his fault too that Switzerland had failed). In hockey this was most visible in the TV discussion Arena on STV, where if you didnīt know anything about the 2011 WHC you would think that Slovakia won the WHC. Again Lintners words- we actually had a better team than Finland if it wasnt for their PP, we always have some excuses ranging from the reffs, lack or luck or it is the stupid lazy little kids to blame for the downfall of Slovak hockey and the third one the lack of innovation- Iīd say we very much fail in developing new things and methods and in addition to that we have trouble with learning something from other nations, which is a murderous combination. But in the end we can always have the one excuse that works for everything- we are poor people in a poor country! Gee, I hate that one so much, yeah weīre so poor that there are around like 40 countries out of around 200 where people are better off than here. Some posters might say that I am trying to put down Slovakia or Slovak hockey, but that is not my goal, itīs just that I think that both Slovakia and Slovak hockey have so much more potential then people give them credit for if in the hands of the right people.

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05-17-2011, 08:03 PM
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It does seem that most countries are starting to view youth development as the biggest thing that needs to be changed for success at the junior and senior levels. The Swedish work in the area has been pretty well documented and from what I've read the Czechs are trying to implement something similar.

The US is also starting a program called the American Development Model that might be of some use to both the Czechs and the Slovaks. It deals with issues like player retention, emphasizing skill development in practice over game play and it's associated systems/winning emphasis, and encouraging multi-sport participation among other things. There are certainly some major difference between the US and the Czechs/Slovaks that effect hockey development but it seems that some of the problems that need to be addressed are similar. Obviously it remains to be seen how successful the ADM will be but if we can see a boost like the Swedes did (and I believe this US program is similar to what they did) it could be a real big step for American hockey. Here's the website that explains the details of the program... www.admkids.com

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06-15-2011, 06:58 PM
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After recently spending a couple of weeks in the Czech Republic, I wouldn't worry too much about the future of Czech hockey. The amount of people that care about the game really blew me away. Colleagues, taxi drivers, random people... everyone seemed to love hockey, especially the national team. You don't get that impression back home even if it's a popular game. I went there with the impression that hockey was dying out there, but I left with the impression that the Czech Republic is more of a hockey country than Sweden.

If interest is that high, it's bound to show results eventually.

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06-16-2011, 02:58 AM
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After recently spending a couple of weeks in the Czech Republic, I wouldn't worry too much about the future of Czech hockey. The amount of people that care about the game really blew me away. Colleagues, taxi drivers, random people... everyone seemed to love hockey, especially the national team. You don't get that impression back home even if it's a popular game. I went there with the impression that hockey was dying out there, but I left with the impression that the Czech Republic is more of a hockey country than Sweden.

If interest is that high, it's bound to show results eventually.
Itīs all nice and it is very similar in Slovakia, but these people have little to none influence over either Czech or Slovak hockey and in the end it matters what the federation and the hockey clubs do and a hockey driver or a random person will hardly change anything about that. If you for example asked a random person in Slovakia about Slovak hockey, they would probably be able to tell you at least the half of the problems that Slovak hockey is suffering from, we all know about them and we all have been complaining about them for a while, but does this mean that anyone actually listents to us? Weīre just stupid fans for them in the end.

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06-16-2011, 10:51 AM
  #22
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Originally Posted by slovakiasnextone View Post
Itīs all nice and it is very similar in Slovakia, but these people have little to none influence over either Czech or Slovak hockey and in the end it matters what the federation and the hockey clubs do and a hockey driver or a random person will hardly change anything about that. If you for example asked a random person in Slovakia about Slovak hockey, they would probably be able to tell you at least the half of the problems that Slovak hockey is suffering from, we all know about them and we all have been complaining about them for a while, but does this mean that anyone actually listents to us? Weīre just stupid fans for them in the end.
my dear friend, yes it is sad but true.. so sadly.
It is like politics.. we elected someone every 4 year and it is over.. we complain in discussions with friends and it is all... then new elections and the same situation. What can we do? For example like Czechs did - protesty dopravcov (I dont know how to translate it, sorry).. but slovaks dont do that.
The same is in hockey.. club fan clubs (and all people) should make a deal that they wont visit slovak extraleague matches for one month/more or season. Why dont they do that? Believe me, it would not solve all problems but it would help a little. And it is better like nothing. I hope you understand what I wanted to tell

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06-17-2011, 11:42 AM
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Originally Posted by slovakiasnextone View Post
Itīs all nice and it is very similar in Slovakia, but these people have little to none influence over either Czech or Slovak hockey and in the end it matters what the federation and the hockey clubs do and a hockey driver or a random person will hardly change anything about that. If you for example asked a random person in Slovakia about Slovak hockey, they would probably be able to tell you at least the half of the problems that Slovak hockey is suffering from, we all know about them and we all have been complaining about them for a while, but does this mean that anyone actually listents to us? Weīre just stupid fans for them in the end.
I understand that there are quite a few problems with hockey over there linked to corruption, sub-standard coaching and what not. But with interest that high, kids are going to keep playing and I wouldn't be too pessimistic about the future. I mean, even if Czech and Slovak player development isn't as good as it could be now, why couldn't that change in the future?

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06-17-2011, 01:30 PM
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I understand that there are quite a few problems with hockey over there linked to corruption, sub-standard coaching and what not. But with interest that high, kids are going to keep playing and I wouldn't be too pessimistic about the future. I mean, even if Czech and Slovak player development isn't as good as it could be now, why couldn't that change in the future?
because people who govern slovak hockey dont want a change. Look at election of president of slovak hockey federation - no change, no new ideas, all is like it was - bad

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06-25-2011, 04:37 AM
  #25
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because people who govern slovak hockey dont want a change. Look at election of president of slovak hockey federation - no change, no new ideas, all is like it was - bad
This. Corruption, corruption and corruption.

Though I hope and believe that once the golden generation retires from playing, they are the ones who have the potential to change things.

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