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Stanley Cup Finals Game 4 Vancouver @ Boston

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Old
06-08-2011, 08:57 AM
  #1
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Stanley Cup Finals Game 4 Vancouver @ Boston

No wishing injuries or anything stupid please, keep it on topic and discuss the game only

Go Canucks Go!

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Old
06-08-2011, 09:08 AM
  #2
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Aww but that's no fun

Go Canucks! (*cringe*)

I still can't believe some folks on here were actually wishing Horton ill with regard to the hit. Folks it isn't Horton's fault Chara hit Pacioretty and it certainly isn't right to wish injury on him. A lot of people here I'm sure would have been thrilled to have traded for that guy prior to him being shipped off to Boston.

It's just classless. I understand being upset over the Pacioretty hit and I understand how some people believe Boston the team had it coming but I don't believe Horton deserved what he got in the slightest and it isn't nice to wish Horton anything other than good luck in his recovery.

It's a serious thing when somebody takes a hit like that, it could potentially affect their career for the negative and isn't something that should be discussed in a negative tone.

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06-08-2011, 09:09 AM
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i still think the hit was clean

that being said, go nucks!

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06-08-2011, 09:12 AM
  #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
i still think the hit was clean

that being said, go nucks!
it was but it was also very late, that was the infraction big time interference, Horton passed the puck 3 seconds before the hit

Horton has been one of their best players this year, they answered well the other night, let's see if they can keep it up. Thomas besides that bad OT goal is playing out of his mind

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06-08-2011, 09:12 AM
  #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
i still think the hit was clean

that being said, go nucks!
amen

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06-08-2011, 09:18 AM
  #6
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I don't think there's anyone here wanting Horton to suffer. The only thing is that no one feels sorry for the Bruins (and the NHL) and their fans. That's all.

Go Canucks! Make it 3-1

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06-08-2011, 09:30 AM
  #7
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
it was but it was also very late, that was the infraction big time interference, Horton passed the puck 3 seconds before the hit

Horton has been one of their best players this year, they answered well the other night, let's see if they can keep it up. Thomas besides that bad OT goal is playing out of his mind
was actually less than 1 second after he passed the puck. Was 28 digital frames, and 30 digital frames=1 second.

So i wouldnt call that very late. Rome was looking to hit him when he had the puck and was already lining him up before he passed it off.

Its funny, a few years ago, there would be hit reels and someone like Don cherry would be like "Look at that guy admiring his pass...Whammo!". And now, people are freaking out.

I guess the fact that the game is so fast, players are stronger, etc the guys getting leveled are getting seriously hurt now. Before they would just skate off & pop a few advils.

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06-08-2011, 09:43 AM
  #8
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It wasn't the timing of the hit that makes it dirty, it was the targeting of the head and leaving his feet that made it a dirty hit.

On top of that yeah it was late. Of course Rome had intended to hit him while he had the puck and Rome can't be blamed that Horton wasn't looking, but he went for the head and left his feet. They showed it from the side angle when it happened. At first I didn't think it was dirty but in the replay you can see him leave his feet and target the head clear as day.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
was actually less than 1 second after he passed the puck. Was 28 digital frames, and 30 digital frames=1 second.

So i wouldnt call that very late. Rome was looking to hit him when he had the puck and was already lining him up before he passed it off.

Its funny, a few years ago, there would be hit reels and someone like Don cherry would be like "Look at that guy admiring his pass...Whammo!". And now, people are freaking out.

I guess the fact that the game is so fast, players are stronger, etc the guys getting leveled are getting seriously hurt now. Before they would just skate off & pop a few advils.
Yeah but back even a few years ago generally in sports concussions were taken a lot more lightly than they are now.

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06-08-2011, 09:47 AM
  #9
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That hit would've been on Don Cherry's rock 'em sock 'em video ten years ago.

Hopefully it's a good game tonight, but you know when the Bruins play at home their crowd expects them to act a certain way.

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06-08-2011, 09:50 AM
  #10
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Originally Posted by Habs 4 Life View Post
it was but it was also very late, that was the infraction big time interference, Horton passed the puck 3 seconds before the hit
I heard it was less than 1 second from the moment of the pass to the moment of the hit. Apparently you can't make a hit 0.5 seconds after someone got rid of it. The Rome hit was less than 0.5 seconds late which, lets be honest, at the speed the game goes, isn't remarkably late, especially seeing the kind of hits that are made along the boards when people play the body long after the puck is gone.

It's going to be interesting tonight for sure. Didn't the official ruling on the suspension say that what they kept in mind was that the hit was late and caused injury, that it wasn't rule 48 and no mention about the head being primarily targetted. I hope someone makes a note of every single hit that occurs over half a second after the puck is moved as that should, pressumably, draw at least a penalty. The standard has officially been set, but I'll bet there are several hits made tonight that are later than 0.5 seconds after the puck is moved that aren't even noticed, let alone penalised in any way.

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06-08-2011, 09:56 AM
  #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
was actually less than 1 second after he passed the puck. Was 28 digital frames, and 30 digital frames=1 second.

So i wouldnt call that very late. Rome was looking to hit him when he had the puck and was already lining him up before he passed it off.

Its funny, a few years ago, there would be hit reels and someone like Don cherry would be like "Look at that guy admiring his pass...Whammo!". And now, people are freaking out.

I guess the fact that the game is so fast, players are stronger, etc the guys getting leveled are getting seriously hurt now. Before they would just skate off & pop a few advils.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Qui Gon Dave View Post
I heard it was less than 1 second from the moment of the pass to the moment of the hit. Apparently you can't make a hit 0.5 seconds after someone got rid of it. The Rome hit was less than 0.5 seconds late which, lets be honest, at the speed the game goes, isn't remarkably late, especially seeing the kind of hits that are made along the boards when people play the body long after the puck is gone.

It's going to be interesting tonight for sure. Didn't the official ruling on the suspension say that what they kept in mind was that the hit was late and caused injury, that it wasn't rule 48 and no mention about the head being primarily targetted. I hope someone makes a note of every single hit that occurs over half a second after the puck is moved as that should, pressumably, draw at least a penalty. The standard has officially been set, but I'll bet there are several hits made tonight that are later than 0.5 seconds after the puck is moved that aren't even noticed, let alone penalised in any way.
I guess it's me and when I say 3 seconds it's just what it seemed to me I didn't really notice it just seemed that long. I guess the speed of todays game makes a huge difference compared to years ago. I agree with you on the fact that Rome was lining him up anyways, so it was hard to avoid him after he made that pass.

Tonight will be interesting, I can't wait to see what Luongo is made of,see if he can rebound cause Thomas is looking dam sharp!

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06-08-2011, 09:59 AM
  #12
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Rome was guilty of, at most, the five and a game in my mind. Four playoff games for that is a more than a bit ridiculous, but this is the NHL and the Bruins. Does anyone actually believe this is going to be a sign of newfound consistency?

If the Canucks don't settle down and play another I think they're screwed. They have an edge in talent in every category, assuming they don't defeat themselves with their horrible decisions. I don't know if AV has enough control over them to make them do the right things. Here's hoping.

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06-08-2011, 10:05 AM
  #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neofury View Post
At first I didn't think it was dirty but in the replay you can see him leave his feet and target the head clear as day.
Any chance you can point me in the direction of a vid of that feed? From the feed I had and some of the screenshots I saw, it looks like Rome bends his knees going into the hit and at the point of contact, his front foot looks down and the toe of his back foot is down but his heel is in the air like he's pushing into it. Kinda like skating technique, you push with your whole blade and towards the end of your stride, the toe is the last point of contact before you raise your foot fully off the ice and bring it forward. From what I've seen, I was pretty confident he was grounded at the point of the hit but with the force of the contact and the way he was straightening up into the hit, it forced him into the air after contact was made. If there is a replay that shows otherwise, I wouldn't mind having a look at that.

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06-08-2011, 10:26 AM
  #14
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It was a clean hit, but too late and therefore warrants a suspension. I don't think it should be blindside considering Horton was watching his pass as he was skating into the blueline. Players need to be responsible and be aware of their surroundings, rather than watching their pass.

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Old
06-08-2011, 10:31 AM
  #15
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Let's all hope this game is far more entertaining than game 3. That was tough to watch. I just want to see a good hockey game no matter who wins.



... what am I saying? Screw the Bruins. Let's go Vancouver.

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06-08-2011, 10:34 AM
  #16
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Let's all hope this game is far more entertaining than game 3. That was tough to watch. I just want to see a good hockey game no matter who wins.



... what am I saying? Screw the Bruins. Let's go Vancouver.
I like this guy. He is a good poster.

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06-08-2011, 10:35 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Qui Gon Dave View Post
Any chance you can point me in the direction of a vid of that feed? From the feed I had and some of the screenshots I saw, it looks like Rome bends his knees going into the hit and at the point of contact, his front foot looks down and the toe of his back foot is down but his heel is in the air like he's pushing into it. Kinda like skating technique, you push with your whole blade and towards the end of your stride, the toe is the last point of contact before you raise your foot fully off the ice and bring it forward. From what I've seen, I was pretty confident he was grounded at the point of the hit but with the force of the contact and the way he was straightening up into the hit, it forced him into the air after contact was made. If there is a replay that shows otherwise, I wouldn't mind having a look at that.
Sure I just looked it up on YT before.

Around 37 seconds:



He does bend his knee you are right, prior to jumping a lot of people do that. He did that to give it a little spring.

It's hard to tell honestly watch the replay and around 37-38 seconds keep pausing it till you get the exact point of contact.

It looks like it was at the point where he was just leaving the ground. You've got to figure though if he had no intent to leave the ground that upon contact even if he did hit the guy he wouldn't have gone in the air just due to the way the hit happened. It wasn't one of those hits where you just go through the guy. When there's some form of "wall" when you hit a guy you aren't going to go up, you'll likely stay grounded, just judging by the angle of the hit it looks like if he hadn't intended to go for the head or leave his feet, he would have easily been able to not do that. That's just my 2 cents.

It all happened really fast so it's tough to say. Do I think Rome wanted to injure him? Doubtful. Do I think he went after him hoping to lay him out big time and left his feet? I think he did whether he had intended to or not. You are quite possibly right though, it seems at around the point of contact he leaves his feet. I just don't believe it was as a result of the impact that he left his feet. I think it all just happened so quickly that he was only getting the momentum to leave his feet just as he was making the hit. He did that "spring" very late.

If you look at the later part of the 36th second you can see clear as day he's planting in order to push off and leave his feet, contact just happened sooner than usual for a hit like that so he wound up leaving his feet as they collided.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ScottyG 91 View Post
It was a clean hit, but too late and therefore warrants a suspension. I don't think it should be blindside considering Horton was watching his pass as he was skating into the blueline. Players need to be responsible and be aware of their surroundings, rather than watching their pass.
I agree it shouldn't be blind side but potentially targeting the head regardless. You can see clear as day he pushes off the ice and lifts his arm up to make the head the principle area of contact. I wouldn't call it a blindside though, the play happens so fast how was he supposed to know Horton would look away to make that pass. That having been said though he did target the head and Horton was injured. I wouldn't even say it's that late a hit to be honest it all happened in the span of 2-3 seconds. Rome couldn't have really timed it differently but it's the way he did the hit which could have been different.


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Old
06-08-2011, 10:38 AM
  #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Canadian_Brewtality View Post
i still think the hit was clean

that being said, go nucks!
of course it was, Rome got suspended because of...Rome.
Chara or Bieksa would have gotten 0.

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06-08-2011, 10:42 AM
  #19
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I've posted these elsewhere, but it's pretty clear to me.

Frame 1: Both feet on the ice, no contact is made yet.
Frame 2: Both feet still on the ice, Rome's elbow begins making contact with Horton's shoulder while still no contact with the head.
Frame 3: Contact with the head is made by Rome's shoulder, both feet still on the ice.

Clean hit by the NHL's rules if it wasn't late. He got suspended for injuring a guy on an interference play.

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06-08-2011, 10:48 AM
  #20
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He got suspended for injuring a guy on an interference play.
Which, as we all know, is what happens every single time without exception.

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Old
06-08-2011, 11:00 AM
  #21
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Let's all hope this game is far more entertaining than game 3. That was tough to watch. I just want to see a good hockey game no matter who wins.



... what am I saying? Screw the Bruins. Let's go Vancouver.
You got it

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06-08-2011, 11:00 AM
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Also, not only Horton was only admiring his pass, if you watch closely, he even changes direction and took two strides towards Rome. Rome intention to hit Horton was about the same time he made his pass but the fact that Horton didn't protect himself and skate directly towards Rome made the hit inevitable and much more brutal.

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06-08-2011, 11:04 AM
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Does the NHL rule say whether or not you have to leave your feet before, during or after contact? Because I'd say being that we're talking about milliseconds here that he left his feet during contact or at least within the first half second of contact.

The point being he clearly had the intent to push off, you can see the spring in his step right before the hit. I don't see why he'd be pushing off so hard from his knees if he didn't intend to at least hit the head let alone leave his feet.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stradale View Post
Also, not only Horton was only admiring his pass, if you watch closely, he even changes direction and took two strides towards Rome. Rome intention to hit Horton was about the same time he made his pass but the fact that Horton didn't protect himself and skate directly towards Rome made the hit inevitable and much more brutal.
I didn't check what the NHL ruling was or if there has been one yet, but I can't say I disagree that the hit was inevitable, I just don't think it was inevitable that the hit would be this bad. There is a rule against head shots and if you go a few frames further than the screen shots above you can clearly see him lifting up his arm and making contact with the head.

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06-08-2011, 11:06 AM
  #24
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I really hope Canucks win this one.
I really hope Lapierre troll the **** of the bruins and keep em off their game.
I really hope Luongo bounce back (well actually hes not to blame for the 8 goals, but you know, being a wall sometimes, it helps.)
I really hope the refs call the game, not by the clock. (am i kidding myself???)

The Sedins must wake up.. I see shade of the jumelles Kostistyn =p

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06-08-2011, 11:15 AM
  #25
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Does the NHL rule say whether or not you have to leave your feet before, during or after contact? Because I'd say being that we're talking about milliseconds here that he left his feet during contact or at least within the first half second of contact.

The point being he clearly had the intent to push off, you can see the spring in his step right before the hit. I don't see why he'd be pushing off so hard from his knees if he didn't intend to at least hit the head let alone leave his feet.



I didn't check what the NHL ruling was or if there has been one yet, but I can't say I disagree that the hit was inevitable, I just don't think it was inevitable that the hit would be this bad. There is a rule against head shots and if you go a few frames further than the screen shots above you can clearly see him lifting up his arm and making contact with the head.
I don't think that's the case.

His elbow does come up, but as with leaving your feet you'll see that in a lot of clean hits when you look at them in slo-mo.




If you look at these two frames, the first one shows Horton's head whipped back from the impact of the shoulder to his head. Rome's elbow is still tucked in.

In the 2nd frame is when Rome's elbow comes up, but by then Horton's head is well out of striking distance. And he's probably already unconscious, though it may have been the ice that did that.

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