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Semin for #8 + Umberger

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Old
06-11-2011, 04:53 PM
  #51
Keystone
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I can't see Semin being of real interest to Columbus. Don't follow either team too close, but has Green fallen out of favor in the Washington system.
Green for Umberger would seem to fill a serious need for Columbus anyway. If that is too much for Wash (my opinion), how about Green, Varly for Umberger and 8th overall. I'm fairly new to this, so try and hold back

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06-11-2011, 05:03 PM
  #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
I can't see Semin being of real interest to Columbus. Don't follow either team too close, but has Green fallen out of favor in the Washington system.
Green for Umberger would seem to fill a serious need for Columbus anyway. If that is too much for Wash (my opinion), how about Green, Varly for Umberger and 8th overall. I'm fairly new to this, so try and hold back


If Umberger is included in the trade just assume the answer is "no". We kind of went over this earlier in the thread.

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06-11-2011, 05:06 PM
  #53
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the 8th overall pick for 1 year of Semin doesn't really make sense

Semin much like Hemsky has more value come July 1 when teams can negotiate contract extensions

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06-11-2011, 05:09 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by leek View Post
My point is the only way the Caps or anyone else get Umberger is for a deal that solves real problems with ELC players.

I could also say they could take out Varlamov and add Alzner.

Overpayment + Entry level contracts plus fill gaps in the Jackets lineup. That's the formula to get Umberger.

I can't see any way it could involve Semin.
Not a chance that the CAPS give up either Carlson OR Alzner for Umberger one for one and you think he's worth both? You do realize that the two of them basically played as the top shutdown pairing as rookies?

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06-11-2011, 05:10 PM
  #55
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I don't know what's up with so many people proposing trades involving Columbus that almost always work against them. It's as if people see the team as some sort of massive farm.

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06-11-2011, 05:11 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
It would be difficult to understate the amount of ignorance this statement represents.

Umberger was our season MVP this year and arguably the year beforehand (he'd be a candidate for 08-09 as well if it weren't for Steve Mason shocking everybody), and during that brief playoff appearance he was the highest-scoring player we had, scoring three of our seven goals (including the very first playoff goal in CBJ history) and generally exemplifying the concept of a "playoff stud".

Trading Umberger is absolutely the wrong thing for the Jackets to do in pretty much any conceivable scenario short of packages for a superstar.


I call Green a superstar, and a PMD a need for Columbus.

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06-11-2011, 05:13 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Keystone View Post
[/B]

I call Green a superstar, and a PMD a need for Columbus.
Pretty sure anything with Green in it would get a hard look from Columbus.

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06-11-2011, 06:04 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by VinnyC View Post
I don't know what's up with so many people proposing trades involving Columbus that almost always work against them. It's as if people see the team as some sort of massive farm.

Pretty much.

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06-11-2011, 07:12 PM
  #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallschirmyager View Post
Not a chance that the CAPS give up either Carlson OR Alzner for Umberger one for one and you think he's worth both? You do realize that the two of them basically played as the top shutdown pairing as rookies?
Not at all. What we are telling you is that that's what it'd take to get him. We have absolutely no reason to trade him, and tons of reasons to have him literally stay here 'till retirement, so trying to acquire him is going to be ridiculously costly.

I don't see what's so hard to understand about this.

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I call Green a superstar, and a PMD a need for Columbus.
Given that his points per game literally dropped by half the instant Washington started playing a more defensively responsible system, AND given that he missed a quarter of the season with a head injury, I'm a little hesitant. I'll grant that he's a top-quality top-pairing PMD, and that's something we could definitely use - but not for Umberger.

If it was Voracek and the 8th for Green and Varlamov, for example, that's something I'd be much more inclined to consider. Swap Voracek with Umberger, though, and it's just a flat "no". You just have to really seriously overpay to get him.

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06-11-2011, 08:18 PM
  #60
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Umberger does a lot of things well, but I suspect it's more sentimentality that's driving a lot of these responses. I don't think this trade is likely either, but...

...Howson needs to do *something* to inject some life into this franchise. Only 3 teams had worse attendance than CBJ -- one of which (ATL) has since relocated, another (PHX) is on the verge, and the other is...well... the Islanders, who need a new arena.

And only 5 teams scored less than CBJ. They need offense, which is probably not unrelated to the fact they can't score.

Semin runs hot and cold, but he's supremely skilled -- 166g in 340gp over the last 5 yrs that's 40g per 82gp.

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06-11-2011, 08:31 PM
  #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regehr View Post
Umberger does a lot of things well, but I suspect it's more sentimentality that's driving a lot of these responses. I don't think this trade is likely either, but...

...Howson needs to do *something* to inject some life into this franchise. Only 3 teams had worse attendance than CBJ -- one of which (ATL) has since relocated, another (PHX) is on the verge, and the other is...well... the Islanders, who need a new arena.

And only 5 teams scored less than CBJ. They need offense, which is probably not unrelated to the fact they can't score.

Semin runs hot and cold, but he's supremely skilled -- 166g in 340gp over the last 5 yrs that's 40g per 82gp.

Bolded the Crux of the argument. Umberger doesn't have the offensive ceiling that Semin does, but you can count on RJ skating hard, forechecking like an animal, backchecking well, standing up for teammates and playing a full shift every shift. Even if he doesn't score, he contributes by just being out there and working hard.

I'll take RJ's 50 points over Semin's 70 points in this case.

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06-11-2011, 09:10 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Holy crap Columbus fans overrate Umberger.
and you must be overrating a guy who is a UFA next season. a 1 year rental is not worth those assets. If Semin is signed for 3+ years, then that is more enticing to CLB but I don't think Semin is the player they are gonna be looking for. Carter + Nash is going to be way more attractive to them.

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06-11-2011, 09:12 PM
  #63
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No reason for Columbus to touch this deal, Semin might even walk away when he becomes a FA.

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06-11-2011, 09:16 PM
  #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regehr View Post
Umberger does a lot of things well, but I suspect it's more sentimentality that's driving a lot of these responses. I don't think this trade is likely either, but...

...Howson needs to do *something* to inject some life into this franchise. Only 3 teams had worse attendance than CBJ -- one of which (ATL) has since relocated, another (PHX) is on the verge, and the other is...well... the Islanders, who need a new arena.

And only 5 teams scored less than CBJ. They need offense, which is probably not unrelated to the fact they can't score.

Semin runs hot and cold, but he's supremely skilled -- 166g in 340gp over the last 5 yrs that's 40g per 82gp.
These all sound like reasons why Semin might be worth contemplating for the Jackets as a Plan L or something like that, but I still don't see any reasons for trading Umberger.

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06-11-2011, 09:17 PM
  #65
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This thread makes my head hurt.
This one among many others?

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06-11-2011, 09:22 PM
  #66
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Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
Not at all. What we are telling you is that that's what it'd take to get him. We have absolutely no reason to trade him, and tons of reasons to have him literally stay here 'till retirement, so trying to acquire him is going to be ridiculously costly.

I don't see what's so hard to understand about this.



Given that his points per game literally dropped by half the instant Washington started playing a more defensively responsible system, AND given that he missed a quarter of the season with a head injury, I'm a little hesitant. I'll grant that he's a top-quality top-pairing PMD, and that's something we could definitely use - but not for Umberger.

If it was Voracek and the 8th for Green and Varlamov, for example, that's something I'd be much more inclined to consider. Swap Voracek with Umberger, though, and it's just a flat "no". You just have to really seriously overpay to get him.
Bold #1: Why is it so hard to understand this wasn't started by a CAPS fan? there is no chance that Umberger would bring either of those two players alone. He has 1 year left until UFA. He's just not worth that much.

To clarify one other tidbit I think you mentioned earlier. Alzners elc just ended. He's an RFA come july 1. Carlson still has 1 more year elc.

Bold #2: The entire team had a down year offensively. The defensive change was a reaction to not scoring enough as opposed to the scoring falling off after the change. Green also missed almost half the season. He also took another shot to the head in the playoffs.

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06-11-2011, 09:41 PM
  #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fallschirmyager View Post
Bold #1: Why is it so hard to understand this wasn't started by a CAPS fan? there is no chance that Umberger would bring either of those two players alone. He has 1 year left until UFA. He's just not worth that much.
regehr, the OP, to all appearances based on post history, is a Caps fan. Y'all are the ones asking for Umberger. We never offered him. We're not going to. leek's post was an example of the overpayment required - not an actual hypothetical trade request.

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Originally Posted by Fallschirmyager View Post
Bold #2: The entire team had a down year offensively. The defensive change was a reaction to not scoring enough as opposed to the scoring falling off after the change. Green also missed almost half the season. He also took another shot to the head in the playoffs.
I'm aware that the entire team's points dropped. His just dropped more than usual. From over point-per-game to just under half a point per game is, frankly, scary. Couple that with losing half the year to injury - a quarter of that year from head shots - and I worry. (Not so much that I wouldn't take him on the team, mind you... just not for Umberger.)

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06-11-2011, 09:59 PM
  #68
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Originally Posted by regehr View Post
Umberger does a lot of things well, but I suspect it's more sentimentality that's driving a lot of these responses. I don't think this trade is likely either, but...

...Howson needs to do *something* to inject some life into this franchise. Only 3 teams had worse attendance than CBJ -- one of which (ATL) has since relocated, another (PHX) is on the verge, and the other is...well... the Islanders, who need a new arena.

And only 5 teams scored less than CBJ. They need offense, which is probably not unrelated to the fact they can't score.

Semin runs hot and cold, but he's supremely skilled -- 166g in 340gp over the last 5 yrs that's 40g per 82gp.
We are all well aware of the CBJ deficiencies.

But there are other ways to do "something" rather than trading away a significant piece of what offense we had, a vocal team leader (A), and a fan favorite (that would really boost attendance).

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06-11-2011, 11:08 PM
  #69
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Originally Posted by leek View Post
Caps fans want him gone because he didn't show up in the playoffs. Actually, it looked like Semin quit on the team.
you're not talking about Alexander Semin are you? Is there another Semin on the Caps I'm not aware of?

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06-11-2011, 11:09 PM
  #70
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Originally Posted by boredmale View Post
the 8th overall pick for 1 year of Semin doesn't really make sense

Semin much like Hemsky has more value come July 1 when teams can negotiate contract extensions
can't begin contract negotiations with Semin until January 1.

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06-11-2011, 11:10 PM
  #71
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regehr View Post
Umberger does a lot of things well, but I suspect it's more sentimentality that's driving a lot of these responses. I don't think this trade is likely either, but...

...Howson needs to do *something* to inject some life into this franchise. Only 3 teams had worse attendance than CBJ -- one of which (ATL) has since relocated, another (PHX) is on the verge, and the other is...well... the Islanders, who need a new arena.

And only 5 teams scored less than CBJ. They need offense, which is probably not unrelated to the fact they can't score.

Semin runs hot and cold, but he's supremely skilled -- 166g in 340gp over the last 5 yrs that's 40g per 82gp.
No, I absolutely despise Umberger, and I would touch this trade. I know what he brings to the team, but I don't like the guy, so I just give an honest unbiased opinion about him.

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Old
06-11-2011, 11:31 PM
  #72
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Talent wise, Semin is one of the top in the league. If not number-one. If he finds his consistency then there is no way the Capitals trade him. He'd be a monster if he can finally become more consistent.

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Old
06-12-2011, 12:02 AM
  #73
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and you must be overrating a guy who is a UFA next season. a 1 year rental is not worth those assets. If Semin is signed for 3+ years, then that is more enticing to CLB but I don't think Semin is the player they are gonna be looking for. Carter + Nash is going to be way more attractive to them.
you do realize that Umberger is also an UFA next season, right?

i'm not that fixated on Umberger, to be honest. i'd be happy with Vermette or Voracek. but Vermette's signed for a few yrs and Voracek is just a kid, so if i'm CBJ i'd hold onto those guys over Umberger who is an UFA next season.

i agree, Carter would be a good fit in CBJ. but personally, i don't think Philly will trade him. they can move versteeg to address their cap problem.

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Old
06-12-2011, 12:17 AM
  #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by regehr View Post
you do realize that Umberger is also an UFA next season, right?

i'm not that fixated on Umberger, to be honest. i'd be happy with Vermette or Voracek. but Vermette's signed for a few yrs and Voracek is just a kid, so if i'm CBJ i'd hold onto those guys over Umberger who is an UFA next season.
This plan assumes that we will have problems retaining Umberger.

Hint: he'll probably stay.

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Old
06-12-2011, 12:51 AM
  #75
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Columbus laughs Semin's wouldn't fit well there

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