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Which team haves the best prospect...

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Old
07-20-2004, 08:04 PM
  #26
Zednik
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4Life
I rank toronto 29th
really ? Who's #30 ??

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07-20-2004, 11:31 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zednik
really ? Who's #30 ??

but Detroit, they got lucky quiet a few times, but luck runs out and you have to start getting high picks to get good prospects but they still continue to trade away all their high picks for rentals!!

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07-20-2004, 11:45 PM
  #28
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Chicago has some really good prospects, look at Ruutu(if you can still consider him a prospect) , Babchuk, Radulev, Seabrooke, Yakubov....

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07-21-2004, 05:31 AM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habs4Life
I rank toronto 29th
Another example of a fan that is afraid to hear the facts.

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07-21-2004, 05:34 AM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zednik
really ? Who's #30 ??
Colorado.

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07-21-2004, 07:48 AM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Guriken
Pittsburgh are first, because Malkin could become a player equally or even more complete than Ovechkin... And they have some other really good prospects, eg. Talbot, whitney.
I'm telling right now, stop dreaming. Ovechkin is ALREADY a COMPLETE player, all he needs is NHL experience so Malkin could ''MAYBE'' (& IT'S A FAR FAR MAYBE) be the better OFFENSIVE player but NEVER the complete player you claim/hope/wish Malkin would be.

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07-21-2004, 08:20 AM
  #32
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I would think that Washington are probably #1 overall. They were ranked #2 before the draft (compared with 9th for the pens) and we all know that Washington did pretty well for themselves in this most recent draft.

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07-21-2004, 09:17 AM
  #33
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http://www.hockeysfuture.com/orgrankings.php


Hey our habs are first!!!!

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07-21-2004, 09:31 AM
  #34
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Those rankings are from before the trade deadline.

Expect major changes.

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07-21-2004, 09:34 AM
  #35
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1. Washington
2. Chicago
3. NY Rangers
4. Montreal
5. Pittsburgh

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07-21-2004, 09:51 AM
  #36
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Originally Posted by NewHabsArea
While I agree we are rather weak defensively, in goal we are fine... To me Danis is at the same level as a guy like Ouellet..

Just for the incredible quality of our fowards bunch, no way we can be considered out of the top 5!
Oulette is way better than Danis.

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07-21-2004, 09:54 AM
  #37
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The forward crop for tha habs are awesome no doubt, but I think the lack of star potential at defence and goalie hurt them a bit. I think they can still be top 5, but Chicago, Washington, Pittsburgh, and New York(they have three very good prospects at goal, Tyutin will be a very good player, and they have Balej) can rank aheaad of Montreal.

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07-21-2004, 09:55 AM
  #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NewHabsArea
To me Danis is at the same level as a guy like Ouellet..
Not even close. Ouellet is probably the best goalie prospect other than Fleury and Lehtonen. Danis isn't on that level. Ouellet is a significantly better prospect than Danis.

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Old
07-21-2004, 10:13 AM
  #39
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Montreal...

Forwards: Top 5
Defense: Between 20 and 25
Goaltending: Around 20th

In my opinion, having a great group of forwards doesn't really put you in the top 5 of overall depth.

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07-21-2004, 10:37 AM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
Montreal...

Forwards: Top 5
Defense: Between 20 and 25
Goaltending: Around 20th

In my opinion, having a great group of forwards doesn't really put you in the top 5 of overall depth.

You're underestimating the defense and goaltending.

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07-21-2004, 10:49 AM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hossa
Not even close. Ouellet is probably the best goalie prospect other than Fleury and Lehtonen. Danis isn't on that level. Ouellet is a significantly better prospect than Danis.
I'd add - Ryan Miller to that list.

While I agree that Danis is notch or two down from Ouellet. Maxime does not belong in the same category as the players you mentioned (or the one I added to your list.)

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07-21-2004, 11:10 AM
  #42
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Teams that are as good or better than Habs on defense...

Washington
Edmonton
Atlanta
Pittsburgh
Anaheim
Boston
Nashville
Dallas
Chicago
San Jose
Florida
Tampa
Toronto
New York

Teams that are as good or better than the Habs in goaltending...

Washington
Edmonton
Atlanta
Detroit
Buffalo
Columbus
Pittsburgh
Ottawa
Anaheim
Dallas
Boston
Carolina
Colorado
Vancouver
Minnesota
San Jose
St. Louis
Toronto
Philadelphia
New York

So, after looking it over, Habs are probably...

Forwards: Top 5
Defense: Between 15 and 20
Goaltending: Around 20

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07-21-2004, 11:13 AM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habfan4
I'd add - Ryan Miller to that list.

While I agree that Danis is notch or two down from Ouellet. Maxime does not belong in the same category as the players you mentioned (or the one I added to your list.)
I'd also add Toivonen to that list as well

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Old
07-21-2004, 11:50 AM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
Montreal...

Forwards: Top 5
Defense: Between 20 and 25
Goaltending: Around 20th

In my opinion, having a great group of forwards doesn't really put you in the top 5 of overall depth.
This looks pretty accurate to me. A lot of it depends on how much stock you put into the single "big name" prospects, though. If Hainsey has lost his spot as a blue-chipper (IMO he has), then we have no true blue-chipper on D. Most other teams have at least one, some have two or three. In goal, we have a lot of depth to close the gap, but again, no blue-chipper.

Consider first the D. Let's stop at the Top-5-or-so D prospects per team (approximations on my own wild opinions....)

"Indisputable" Top 7 (clearly better than Habs, IMHO.)
Chicago - Barker, Babchuk, Seabrook, Barinka, Keith/hundreds
Atlanta - Coburn, Valabik, Nikulin, Sharrow, Lewis?Oystrick?etc
Dallas - Daley, Belle, Nickerson, Fistric, Fransson
Edmonton - Woywitka, Lynch, Greene, Gilbert, Tesliuk
Washington - Morrisonn, Green, Yonkman, Hedman, Schultz, Lepisto
Pittsburgh - Whitney, Welch, Goligoski, Nemec, Sersen/Bissonette/Lupaschuk
Nashville - Suter, Klein, Weber, Niskala, Safronov?

The Next 7 (Partly on star power + depth, or even on just one or two stars who I'd take over our collection of hopefuls.)
Boston - Stuart, Jonsson, Jurcina, Alberts, Hunwick?
Ottawa - Meszaros, Lyamin, Platil, Vauclair?, Seydoux?
NYR - Tjutin, Kondratiev, Lampman, Baranka, Liffiton?
Anahiem - Smid, Popovic, Rome, Foster, Rogers/Smith
LA - Grebeshkov, Petiot, Zizka?/Baier???
Minnesota - Thelen, Heid, Michalek, Reitz, Misharin?
Calgary - Phaneuf, Ramholt, after that... yikes.. but look at their roster

"Our Range" (Teams which seem to be about in our group, generally having a good mix of depth hopefuls, but maybe not a really standout blue-chipper, or if they do, a weaker supporting cast)
San Jose - Ehrhoff, Carle, Spang, Gorges, Stafford/Murray
Tampa Bay - Egener, Rogers, Dicaire, O'Brien, Smaby
Toronto - Colaiacovo, Bell, Harrison, Kronvall, White/Vorobiev
Florida - Krajicek, Novak, Uchevatov, Lojek?, Bagnall?
Columbus - Johnson, Kosmachev, Tollefsen, Wharton, ?
Phoenix - Ballard, Knyazev, Stephenson, Forster, Jones/Bezina?
Montreal - Hainsey, O'Byrne, Yemelin, Korpikari, Korneev

"Some Problems here" (Teams which I'm pegging a notch below us, but it's definitely arguable).
Buffalo - Ezhov, Funk, Sekera, Paetsch, Morrow?
NYI - Gervais, Caldwell, O'Neill, Tukio?, Stonkus?
Philly - Picard, Ruggieri, Jones, Wood, Anderson?
Carolina - Richmond, Borer, Carson, Vagner, Dawson?

"Forget about it!" (Either a total lack of blue-chip hopefuls, or, if they have one, basically nothing else).
Vancouver - Koltsov, Skinner, Edler, Grot, Mojszis?
New Jersey - Kadeykin, DeMarchi, Chvatal, Redlihs, bleah?
Detroit - Kronwall, bleah
St. Louis - Byrne, um, never mind
Colorado - Boychuk, Slovak, Kalteva? never mind

I dunno, it's pretty wide-open to debate, and I might slide some teams up or down in the groups on a different day, as the mood moves me, but in general, yeah, I can see the Habs being 20-25ish in terms of D prospects.

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Old
07-21-2004, 12:08 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by habfan4
I'd add - Ryan Miller to that list.

While I agree that Danis is notch or two down from Ouellet. Maxime does not belong in the same category as the players you mentioned (or the one I added to your list.)
To me, Ouellet is a notch below the big goalies, with Miller, Toivonen and Emery also being in his "range". Danis is a level below that second tier, where he sits with guys like Drouin-Deslauriers for example.

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07-21-2004, 12:09 PM
  #46
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The Leafs are arguably in the top 10 in terms of blueline depth. Colaiacovo, Bell, and Harrison are arguably one of the better 1-2-3 group of blueline prospects in the league. And I wouldn't put LA that high, after Grebeshkov, they've got almost nothing. Same with Minnesota.

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07-21-2004, 12:11 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Habsaholic
OMG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Might I ask who has the most Top 100 prospects outside the NHL?(answer below)
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Montreal Canadiens, and the have more in the top 25 than any 2 teams combined in the top 50
Source?

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Old
07-21-2004, 12:39 PM
  #48
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A lot of it depends on where you put Danis. I don't think that, strictly going by reputation, he has earned a spot with the blue-chip goaltending prospects yet (4 stars and above); he might be one, but I don't think we know it yet. Our goaltending strength is kind of like that right down the list... we think Halak and Lindberg and even Michaud have shown something and could surprise people, but there isn't really a good body of scouting community proof to go with yet.

FWIW, here's how I see the NHL goaltending prospects (again, totally off the cuff, so I'm sure it's full of errors and omissions, but at least it has to be better than just saying "oh yeah, I think Montreal ranks 17th with no supporting evidence at all):

13 teams I'm saying are ahead of the Habs (Either they just overwhelm with star quality *and* depth, or the scouting-rep star quality of an individual is enough to carry the day (see Boston, Buffalo))
Atlanta - Lehtonen *****, Garnett ***, Turple *, Berkhoel *
Pittsburgh - Fleury *****, Chiodo ****, Brown **, Duba/etc *
Chicago - Leighton ****, Anderson ****, Crawford ***, Brodeur **
Detroit - Howard ****, Liv ***, MacDonald ***, MacIntyre **
St. Louis - Schwarz ****, Bacashihua ***, Barulin ***, Nissinen ***
Edmonton - Dubnyk ****, Deslauriers ****, Morrison **, Bjurlin *
NYR - Montoya ****, Blackburn ****, Lundqvist ****, Labarbera/Apslund/Holt **
Philly - Niitymaki ****, Beauchemin ***, Bruckler **, Tremblay/Morris/Houle **
Vancouver - Auld ****, Schneider ****, Mensator **, Plante **
Washington - Ouellette ****, Daigneault ***, Stana **
Ottawa - Emery ****, Thompson ***, Guard **, Glass **
Boston - Toivonen ****, Kaltianen **, Sigalet * (Raycroft!)
Buffalo - Miller ****, Valent **, Weber *

8 Teams which we contend with (Many of these teams have a "4-star" individual prospect to rival or outshine Danis, but I don't get so excited about their depth compared to ours).
Columbus - Leclaire ****, Lacosta **, Penner *
Nashville - Finley ****, Lassila **, Rinne **, Moir **
Carolina - Ward ****, Nastiuk **, Akerlund **, Jokela *
Montreal - Danis ***, Halak **, Lindberg **, Michaud **
Colorado - Sauve ****, Budaj ***, Lawson *, Weiman *
Dallas - Ellis ***, Stephan ***, Smith **,
San Jose - Patzold ***, Ehelechner **, Greiss **, Schaefer **
Calgary - Krahn ***, Medvedev **, McIlhenny *, Spratt *

9 Teams I'll take our goalies over (But some of them do have lofty 4-star prospects too, and they could easily be in the group above.)
New Jersey - Ahonen ****, Disher *, Kostur *, Smith *
Anaheim - Bryzgalov ****, Bouthilette *, Ferhi *, ?
Minnesota - Harding ****, Kopriva *, Kettles *
Phoenix - Leneveau ****, Pietrasek *
Toronto - Tellqvist ****, Pogge **, Ford *, Racine/Centomo? *
LA - Munce ***, Zaba **, Marsters **, Brust **
Florida - Shantz ***, Vuorio *, Lajeunesse *
NYI - Dubieliewicz **, Topping ** (Dipietro!)
Tampa Bay - Eklund **, Boutin *, Coleman *, Pearce *


Last edited by Blind Gardien: 07-21-2004 at 12:53 PM.
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Old
07-21-2004, 12:47 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafaholix
The Leafs are arguably in the top 10 in terms of blueline depth. Colaiacovo, Bell, and Harrison are arguably one of the better 1-2-3 group of blueline prospects in the league. And I wouldn't put LA that high, after Grebeshkov, they've got almost nothing. Same with Minnesota.
It's always arguable. Some people here will argue the same for the Habs. At the end of the day, I ask myself, would I trade that Leafs top-5 for LA's top-5 or Calgary's top-5... and I had to say, yep, I would! Phaneuf and Grebeshkov are just that good. I'd peg the Leafs... well, right where I pegged them! Middle of the pack, 15th or so. IMHO depth pulls them up, but Cola-Bell-Harrison is NOT one of the better 1-2-3 groups, as I see it. I would only expect one of that group to become a top-4 NHL defenseman, with even odds that none of them are.

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07-21-2004, 12:50 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Hossa
To me, Ouellet is a notch below the big goalies, with Miller, Toivonen and Emery also being in his "range". Danis is a level below that second tier, where he sits with guys like Drouin-Deslauriers for example.
Let's not forget Leclaire in Columbus, and Ahonen in NJ.

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