HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > Washington Capitals
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Senators & Islanders Interested In Semin

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-14-2011, 02:25 PM
  #26
EroCaps
Registered User
 
EroCaps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 14,552
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HSHS View Post
Why do I expect a "pot calling kettle black" response to this post upcoming.
This makes no sense, so I'll just continue...

It would be totally out of the sports norm for a young productive player to have no suitors, regardless of obvious character flaws.

Of course, a competent GM would have been able to evaluate Semin's lack of character from Day 1 and would have gotten max value for him a year or two ago.

EroCaps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 03:04 PM
  #27
Mystlyfe
We're Touched
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 12,828
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
I wouldn't bet against Carter moving this off season. I mean, Philly has to do something. I'd imagine they have to move at least $4 million in salary out to be able to sign Bryzgalov.
While Holmgren does surprising things, him trading away someone who just signed an 11 year extension that hasn't even kicked still doesn't seem likely.

Mystlyfe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 03:10 PM
  #28
Millhaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,715
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
While Holmgren does surprising things, him trading away someone who just signed an 11 year extension that hasn't even kicked still doesn't seem likely.
Especially when they have other ways they could clear that cap space. Versteeg and Carle are much more likely to go than Carter IMO.

Millhaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 03:10 PM
  #29
Dirtbag59
Registered User
 
Dirtbag59's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 1,867
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by dashtary View Post
From ***********:
*************************************

He's spot-on on almost everything and posts a lot of things before the big guns get to it.

Thoughts?
Even if that's true you have to realize that this guy didn't go so far to say that the Caps would be interested in trading Semin. For now the interest only really goes one way.

I think the case of trading Semin is more of a want among fans rather then a realistic possibility. Seriously New Jersey is the only other NHL team I could realistically see Semin willing to go to, and they're not picking up the phone again any time soon. No way he isolates himself on a team with no Russians. He would be better off making a bunch of money in less games as a headline star in the KHL.

Dirtbag59 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 03:14 PM
  #30
Mystlyfe
We're Touched
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 12,828
vCash: 500
Realistically, I just don't see a way this team ends up with the better end of a Semin trade(s) next year. I can't see the Caps getting enough in return for him to validate it, nor do I see much of realistic intrigue on the free agent market.

Mystlyfe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 03:20 PM
  #31
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 40,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
This makes no sense, so I'll just continue...

It would be totally out of the sports norm for a young productive player to have no suitors, regardless of obvious character flaws.

Of course, a competent GM would have been able to evaluate Semin's lack of character from Day 1 and would have gotten max value for him a year or two ago.
you don't recognize that you on one hand totally destroy the player for his lack of character among other things and then immediately on the other hand expect a list of teams lining up a pricey package of offers to trade for him.

txpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 03:20 PM
  #32
fsnoles98
Registered User
 
fsnoles98's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Posts: 1,059
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Realistically, I just don't see a way this team ends up with the better end of a Semin trade(s) next year. I can't see the Caps getting enough in return for him to validate it, nor do I see much of realistic intrigue on the free agent market.
Nor do I see the Caps giving this guy another 6 million or more a year when he disappears more often then not.

fsnoles98 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 03:22 PM
  #33
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 27,694
vCash: 500
Is an 11 year contract really tradeable? I mean unless you're a team in a market that needs a splash....say Columbus, maybe even Winnepeg now, trading for a name on a longterm deal seems palatable...otherwise, I don't know...

I just have a hard time seeing this happening unless Carter wants out. He's signed to a career deal. The team has gone to the player and said "we want you to finish your career as a Flyer". If Carter doesn't want out and the Flyers move him, poor form on the Flyers IMO.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 03:22 PM
  #34
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 27,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Realistically, I just don't see a way this team ends up with the better end of a Semin trade(s) next year. I can't see the Caps getting enough in return for him to validate it, nor do I see much of realistic intrigue on the free agent market.
Is it better to get no return at all for Semin at some point if he walks?

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 03:26 PM
  #35
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 27,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsnoles98 View Post
Nor do I see the Caps giving this guy another 6 million or more a year when he disappears more often then not.
You don't think the Caps would agree to just keep inking Semin to 1 year deals at $6.7 per until they see how things shake out? I think they absolutely would....biding their time until something better comes...

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 03:26 PM
  #36
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 40,472
vCash: 500
if he walks for nothing, the cap space is left there. just look at the kovalchuk deal and you see that they got nothing of great value. a midling defenseman, a questionable forward, a questionable prospect and a late 1st round pick.

txpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 03:26 PM
  #37
Mystlyfe
We're Touched
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 12,828
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
Is it better to get no return at all for Semin at some point if he walks?
Would you prefer to move Semin for future success, even if it reduces the odds of the Capitals winning next year? Should the Capitals go through a "retooling" year next season instead of trying to get the cup?

Mystlyfe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 03:32 PM
  #38
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 27,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Would you prefer to move Semin for future success, even if it reduces the odds of the Capitals winning next year? Should the Capitals go through a "retooling" year next season instead of trying to get the cup?
Yep, I sure would, but I don't believe a trade of Semin means your chances are reduced either. As long as that future success is in the form of one NHL roster player with some youth and upside, I would move Semin and look to shore up the lack of scoring through another trade.

Trading Semin for youth doesn't have to mean the Caps have a reduced chance at winning next year unless you believe McPhee can't do his job and find a way to fill the gaps with the recovered salary cap room.

And IMO, the Caps are constantly retooling in the offseason. Every team interested in winning the Cup with money/cap space to spend is retooling EVERY single summer. That's the way it goes. Retooling shouldn't be seen as some sort of negative where this team won't still be among the best in the East next year. Chances are pretty damned good that they will be.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 03:45 PM
  #39
Millhaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,715
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
Is it better to get no return at all for Semin at some point if he walks?
When was the last time a team that considered itself a contender traded away an important player for futures simply because they were afraid they might get nothing for him later if he walked away as a UFA?

That is a move made by rebuilding teams not playoff teams and definitely not teams thinking about contending.

Millhaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 03:47 PM
  #40
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 27,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
if he walks for nothing, the cap space is left there. just look at the kovalchuk deal and you see that they got nothing of great value. a midling defenseman, a questionable forward, a questionable prospect and a late 1st round pick.
Nothing of great value? For a guy who had done everything but turn in his jersey and sold his house, they got solid return.

When you look at that trade from Atlanta's view and see how little talent they had it doesn't look as bad. They got a top 4 D (if not top pair), they got a forward who scored 19g for them over 79 games (Bergfors over 2 seasons before being moved), and the 1st round pick that helped bring in Dustin Byfuglien, Ben Eager, Brent Sopel in a trade with Chicago.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 04:05 PM
  #41
dpj0122
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Posts: 363
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Would you prefer to move Semin for future success, even if it reduces the odds of the Capitals winning next year? Should the Capitals go through a "retooling" year next season instead of trying to get the cup?
As far as I'm concerned, they just went through a retooling year with two rookie Dmen, three young goalies and a rookie second or third line center.

dpj0122 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 04:10 PM
  #42
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 40,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
Nothing of great value? For a guy who had done everything but turn in his jersey and sold his house, they got solid return.

When you look at that trade from Atlanta's view and see how little talent they had it doesn't look as bad. They got a top 4 D (if not top pair), they got a forward who scored 19g for them over 79 games (Bergfors over 2 seasons before being moved), and the 1st round pick that helped bring in Dustin Byfuglien, Ben Eager, Brent Sopel in a trade with Chicago.
but the caps are not the thrashers. oduya and bergfors wouldnt make the caps better. if you change bergfors to a 3rd line gritty winger and oduya into a prospect defenseman/non-nhl asset, it looks a little better.

if the caps traded semin for neil and a prospect, would you be content with that?

txpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 04:15 PM
  #43
EroCaps
Registered User
 
EroCaps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 14,552
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mystlyfe View Post
Would you prefer to move Semin for future success, even if it reduces the odds of the Capitals winning next year? Should the Capitals go through a "retooling" year next season instead of trying to get the cup?
Short answer? Uh, yes. You "re-tool" when your current tools don't work. Which applies to every non-Stanley Cup winning teams to varying degrees or Cup teams with cap issues.

I don't know where the assumption comes from that Semin would be traded for "futures".

EroCaps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 04:17 PM
  #44
Millhaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,715
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
Short answer? Uh, yes. You "re-tool" when your current tools don't work. Which applies to every non-Stanley Cup winning teams to varying degrees or Cup teams with cap issues.

I don't know where the assumption comes from that Semin would be traded for "futures".
Well then tell us who/what he would be traded for, and please don't be vague...

Millhaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 04:25 PM
  #45
EroCaps
Registered User
 
EroCaps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 14,552
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Well then tell us who/what he would be traded for, and please don't be vague...
Please, dude.

I've beat the horse for like 2 years. A package that includes NHL ready player(s)/prospect(s) with high character but less offensive upside. That doesn't mean you trade him for a ****ing 20 pt 3rd/4th liner. It means you pick up a top 6 player +.

EroCaps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 04:32 PM
  #46
Millhaus
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 5,715
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
Please, dude.

I've beat the horse for like 2 years. A package that includes NHL ready player(s)/prospect(s) with high character but less offensive upside.
Please dude, name the F-ing players. Impress us with your keyboard GMing skills. I'm sick of the vague unnamed winners you would acquire. Put up or shut up...

Millhaus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 04:41 PM
  #47
CapitalsCupFantasy
HFBoards Sponsor
 
CapitalsCupFantasy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Country: United States
Posts: 27,694
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by txpd View Post
but the caps are not the thrashers. oduya and bergfors wouldnt make the caps better. if you change bergfors to a 3rd line gritty winger and oduya into a prospect defenseman/non-nhl asset, it looks a little better.

if the caps traded semin for neil and a prospect, would you be content with that?
You're right, but you completely dismissed that trade in comparison to any Semin deal that might happen, I simply debunked your myth. The fact is ATL got decent value for a guy with 1 foot out of town.

The Caps can get value. Just because it might be hard, doesn't mean it's impossible. They also have to make other trades or signings to make it all work.


Chris Niel is NOT a young player with upside....

Give me a top 4 defender and a good prospect or a 2nd line wing and a good prospect and you have a deal.

CapitalsCupFantasy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 04:42 PM
  #48
EroCaps
Registered User
 
EroCaps's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Virginia
Country: United States
Posts: 14,552
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Please dude, name the F-ing players. Impress us with your keyboard GMing skills. I'm sick of the vague unnamed winners you would acquire. Put up or shut up...
Really?

I'm not a GM. It's not my day job to know what players are available. I don't know what coaches are up-and-coming either. But I do know that some exist. That good moves are made on both fronts every ****ing year. It doesn't mean that because I'm not in hockey that I don't know anything about it. That's arrogant, delusional crap. Asking me to call exact deals is ridiculous.

The idea that there's not a decent deal out there for Semin is highly unlikely, imo. He's a commodity. But even hypothetically if it were true, then it's an indictment on McPhee for not seeing the writing on the wall with this player years ago.

EroCaps is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 04:47 PM
  #49
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 40,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
I don't know where the assumption comes from that Semin would be traded for "futures".
There is no assumption. There is, however, a likely hood. A team that has the cap room for a salary like semin's very likely won't have the assets the caps need to get better. its hard to trade a big salary. at that point you have to choose which is more important. is the return more important or moving the player because you may not get both.

Simon Gagne returned Matt Walker and a 4th round pick.

txpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 04:49 PM
  #50
txpd
Registered User
 
txpd's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 40,472
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
You're right, but you completely dismissed that trade in comparison to any Semin deal that might happen, I simply debunked your myth. The fact is ATL got decent value for a guy with 1 foot out of town.

The Caps can get value. Just because it might be hard, doesn't mean it's impossible. They also have to make other trades or signings to make it all work.


Chris Niel is NOT a young player with upside....

Give me a top 4 defender and a good prospect or a 2nd line wing and a good prospect and you have a deal.
the caps dont need young players with upside as much as they need right now help.
a young player with upside means another young player in an already young lineup just getting younger....not an improvement in and of itself.

txpd is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:25 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. ©2014 All Rights Reserved.