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Old
06-25-2011, 01:00 PM
  #76
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Nole comes from 0-40 to break Bags for 3-1--fun tennis, though, espcially if Bags can stay close to the boil.

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06-25-2011, 01:03 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Deficient Mode View Post
Tomic takes the second set too. He's a crafty player and he's really good at changing the direction of the ball on his forehand especially, but he doesn't serve well, doesn't hit the ball hard off the ground, and he doesn't move well either. It's hard to argue that he will be a top player in the future, even as he is outplaying Soderling.
You've got to be kidding me. First look at Tomic? That's the only way I'll let you get away with a call as poor as that.

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06-25-2011, 02:19 PM
  #78
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From the round of 16 onward, Rafa has easily the toughest road: Del Potro; Berdych/Fish; Murray; Djokovic/Federer. To win it, he'll really have to earn it.

By the way, I will be in Ireland for the second week. Anyone know any good pubs in Dublin where I can watch the finals?

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06-25-2011, 02:40 PM
  #79
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You've got to be kidding me. First look at Tomic? That's the only way I'll let you get away with a call as poor as that.
Definitely my first look. Only saw the final set, but I thought he was moving well by then. Maybe he was just more confident at that point. Especially for his age, I thought he managed points from the backcourt really well, though Soderling obviously wasn't 100%. All the flaws that Deficient Mode saw are coachable, so he certainly has the potential to improve. I think if he works with the right people he has a very bright future.

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06-25-2011, 04:34 PM
  #80
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You've got to be kidding me. First look at Tomic? That's the only way I'll let you get away with a call as poor as that.
Second look actually. He obviously has really good court sense, and he's still very young, and most players certainly develop more power after they're 18, but I don't see him becoming a new Federer/Nadal/Djokovic. Those players all moved around the court really well even at a young age, and I don't see that in Tomic. You can only improve your movement so much beyond your natural ability. He looks like he's already a good returner though.

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06-25-2011, 06:36 PM
  #81
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Originally Posted by kihei View Post
From the round of 16 onward, Rafa has easily the toughest road: Del Potro; Berdych/Fish; Murray; Djokovic/Federer. To win it, he'll really have to earn it.

By the way, I will be in Ireland for the second week. Anyone know any good pubs in Dublin where I can watch the finals?
definitely a tough road for him.

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06-26-2011, 10:58 AM
  #82
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Great.. wrote three hours just to see my reply was wiped out F*
In short then. Venus Williams wins.

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06-26-2011, 05:33 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by kihei View Post
From the round of 16 onward, Rafa has easily the toughest road: Del Potro; Berdych/Fish; Murray; Djokovic/Federer. To win it, he'll really have to earn it.

By the way, I will be in Ireland for the second week. Anyone know any good pubs in Dublin where I can watch the finals?

Don't discount Gasquet and Malisse's respective impacts on Murray and Djokovic. The Belgian beat Novak in their only career matchup, and it was on Grass just last year. As for Richard, the Frenchman not only holds a 3-2 head-to-head lead over the Brit, but he has as many grass court titles as Andy (2).

Del Potro lacks the mobility and Murray lacks the athleticism to hang with Nadal over the course of a best-of-five-sets match. Federer will get through Djokovic, simply on the basis of nerves/experience, but he'll have to serve as well as he did in the '07 Wimbldon final to have any chance of beating Rafael.

Fans of the Spaniard should fear Fish most: his athleticism is underrated, he's got a big serve, more than willing to come to net regularly, and both the FH or BH are smooth/free of hitches, meaning neither wing is easier to pick on than the other. Mardy will keep the points predictably short, but if the American expects a majority of his winners to come from his groundstrokes as opposed to his volleys/overhead, he'll lose.

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06-26-2011, 07:03 PM
  #84
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Don't discount Gasquet and Malisse's respective impacts on Murray and Djokovic. The Belgian beat Novak in their only career matchup, and it was on Grass just last year. As for Richard, the Frenchman not only holds a 3-2 head-to-head lead over the Brit, but he has as many grass court titles as Andy (2).

Del Potro lacks the mobility and Murray lacks the athleticism to hang with Nadal over the course of a best-of-five-sets match. Federer will get through Djokovic, simply on the basis of nerves/experience, but he'll have to serve as well as he did in the '07 Wimbldon final to have any chance of beating Rafael.

Fans of the Spaniard should fear Fish most: his athleticism is underrated, he's got a big serve, more than willing to come to net regularly, and both the FH or BH are smooth/free of hitches, meaning neither wing is easier to pick on than the other. Mardy will keep the points predictably short, but if the American expects a majority of his winners to come from his groundstrokes as opposed to his volleys/overhead, he'll lose.
Be great if it worked out that way, but cumulatively that's a still a heavy load. I think he will manage it, though; he's still a safer bet than anybody else at this stage.

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06-26-2011, 07:52 PM
  #85
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Be great if it worked out that way, but cumulatively that's a still a heavy load. I think he will manage it, though; he's still a safer bet than anybody else at this stage.
To add to that, those who pick Federer/Djokovic over Nadal in the final forget that Federer and Djokovic have to play each other before the final, meaning they'll beat each other's brains out and be less than 100% for the final, and being less than 100% against Rafael is almost the same as a walkover against Spaniard. Conversely, what Murray brings to the table (tact/guile) is not what tires out the world No. 1 (brute power/commitment to closing on the net).

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06-26-2011, 10:28 PM
  #86
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To add to that, those who pick Federer/Djokovic over Nadal in the final forget that Federer and Djokovic have to play each other before the final, meaning they'll beat each other's brains out and be less than 100% for the final, and being less than 100% against Rafael is almost the same as a walkover against Spaniard. Conversely, what Murray brings to the table (tact/guile) is not what tires out the world No. 1 (brute power/commitment to closing on the net).
The first part is very important and I think it helped Nadal immensely at last year's US Open and this year's Roland Garros - the Djokovic/Federer semifinal. I was pretty confident that Nadal would win last year's US Open when Murray went out early, because having to play on Saturday and again on Sunday often exposes the finalist with the more difficult route. On the other hand, Djokovic would have had a much better chance against Nadal in Paris. That will of course change in the likely event that Djokovic overtakes Nadal in the rankings.

I think you're selling Murray short. Sure he's a bit of a pusher, but it's not really that he lacks the athleticism to stay with Nadal. Rather it's his own lack of confidence and inconsistent play within matches even against far inferior opponents: e.g. his first round match where he lost the first set and double-bageled the guy in the last two sets. Playing attacking tennis against Nadal isn't going to get the job done with how slow the courts are - Fish wouldn't fare too well against Nadal, but I'm picking Berdych to win that match anyway.

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06-26-2011, 11:23 PM
  #87
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The first part is very important and I think it helped Nadal immensely at last year's US Open and this year's Roland Garros - the Djokovic/Federer semifinal. I was pretty confident that Nadal would win last year's US Open when Murray went out early, because having to play on Saturday and again on Sunday often exposes the finalist with the more difficult route. On the other hand, Djokovic would have had a much better chance against Nadal in Paris. That will of course change in the likely event that Djokovic overtakes Nadal in the rankings.

I think you're selling Murray short. Sure he's a bit of a pusher, but it's not really that he lacks the athleticism to stay with Nadal. Rather it's his own lack of confidence and inconsistent play within matches even against far inferior opponents: e.g. his first round match where he lost the first set and double-bageled the guy in the last two sets. Playing attacking tennis against Nadal isn't going to get the job done with how slow the courts are - Fish wouldn't fare too well against Nadal, but I'm picking Berdych to win that match anyway.
Nobody in last year's final at the US was going to touch Nadal. Nadal's US Open was one of the most dominant victories in all of sports history. He only dropped his serve something like 3 times the whole tournament. It was a minor miracle that Djokovic managed to even take a set from Nadal. I also wouldn't say in the likely event Djokovic passes Nadal. The way I see it, it is 50/50 still. Djokovic has to reach the final, and that is not a given.

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06-26-2011, 11:53 PM
  #88
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the likely event that Djokovic overtakes Nadal in the rankings.
2,110 points separate the two for the rest of the year. Not like the Serb can go into hibernation.

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Playing attacking tennis against Nadal isn't going to get the job done
LOL As opposed to...

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06-27-2011, 01:18 AM
  #89
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Nobody in last year's final at the US was going to touch Nadal. Nadal's US Open was one of the most dominant victories in all of sports history. He only dropped his serve something like 3 times the whole tournament. It was a minor miracle that Djokovic managed to even take a set from Nadal. I also wouldn't say in the likely event Djokovic passes Nadal. The way I see it, it is 50/50 still. Djokovic has to reach the final, and that is not a given.
Exaggerate much? No one did touch Nadal because the seeds he faced were Simon, Lopez, Verdasco, Youzhny, then Djokovic - hardly an overly difficult group, before the finals. He was actually broken 5 times, comparable to, e.g. Fed being broken only 6 times at 2004 Wimbledon and losing only one set. That's not me being overly defensive about Nadal's achievements compared to Federer, but merely doubting that it was "one of the most dominant victories in all of sports history" when I easily found another tennis example not that far off from it in the statistic you chose to emphasize.

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LOL As opposed to...
"Brute power" were your words: no one is going to blow Nadal off the court at Wimbledon, and anyone who plans on coming to the net has to be selective because of how consistently well he hits passing shots.

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06-27-2011, 02:48 AM
  #90
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Tomic takes the second set too. He's a crafty player and he's really good at changing the direction of the ball on his forehand especially, but he doesn't serve well, doesn't hit the ball hard off the ground, and he doesn't move well either. It's hard to argue that he will be a top player in the future, even as he is outplaying Soderling.
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Definitely my first look. Only saw the final set, but I thought he was moving well by then. Maybe he was just more confident at that point. Especially for his age, I thought he managed points from the backcourt really well, though Soderling obviously wasn't 100%. All the flaws that Deficient Mode saw are coachable, so he certainly has the potential to improve. I think if he works with the right people he has a very bright future.
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Second look actually. He obviously has really good court sense, and he's still very young, and most players certainly develop more power after they're 18, but I don't see him becoming a new Federer/Nadal/Djokovic. Those players all moved around the court really well even at a young age, and I don't see that in Tomic. You can only improve your movement so much beyond your natural ability. He looks like he's already a good returner though.
Tomic is one of the more unique players on the tour, and the fact that he’s just 18 makes the game he plays even more remarkable. He doesn’t necessarily hit the ball hard off the ground, but he hits it with a lot more pace than it appears. He’s got that very unusual looking forehand and while it doesn’t generate extreme pace, it’s deceptively quick. If it were that slow, and that weak, why don’t opponents bury it? He's played some very good players already in his young career, and it's interesting that none have gone out there and dominated him and feasted on his lack of power. He can explode on his groundstrokes and inject pace which seems to come from nowhere. As for his serve, it’s improved a lot since he first turned pro as 2-3 years ago it was purely a point starter. In this tournament his average 1st serve speed is slightly above 180kph, go back a few years and that would’ve been his fastest 1st serve speed. As he continues to fill out and gain strength, he’ll only pick up more speed and gain more free points. 23 aces in 3 matches as an 18 year old is fine, in fact it’s more than fine. You’ve got to remember that he is only 18, very few have explosive serves by that age. His serve has progressively got heavier as the years have gone by and at his height, will only become more of a weapon over time.

Now for his movement, this has always been his biggest issue, but let me tell you that he’s only recently finished growing. He grew 24cm and added a huge amount of weight, all in the space of three years; in 2009 alone he grew 10cm. So for someone who perhaps wasn’t a natural mover to begin with, it was always going to take time. Watching him now as opposed to when he first hit the tour you can see a noticeable improvement. Go back a few years Tomic still had the court craft and variety, but it was all too easy to go back behind Tomic, you’d simply have to wrong foot him and he was gone. His movement will never be elite, but it’s improved a ton and it will continue to. His movement doesn’t really stand out these days, and it will become less of an issue over the years as he’s finally finished growing and he can hit the gym hard and strengthen his body.

Tomic makes up for his shortcomings with his incredible court craft and tennis smarts. He’s one of the smartest players I’ve seen, and he’s still a teenager. Find himself out of position and he’ll throw in a beautiful defensive slice right on the baseline to buy himself time. He’ll rarely hit two balls the same; he’s constantly mixing it up, changing the pace of his shots and forcing his opponent to run from side to side as he dictates play. He’s stated that his biggest strength is finding out his opponents weakness, and you can see it by watching him. He knows exactly what to do out there, it’s scary. The more you see him play, the more you appreciate his natural talent. It’s rare in this day and age to have someone so young read the game so well. His backhand slice is truly phenomenal, whether he’s using it as an offensive or defensive shot, it is so tough to handle. As a 16 year old in his first GS he reached the 2nd round and was a set and a break up against Gilles Muller. A year later he took eventual SF’ist Marin Cilic to 5 and had break points at 4 all in the 5th. A year later he beat the seeded Lopez and then acquitted himself well against Nadal. He’s building nicely and after this tournament he’ll officially be ranked inside the top 100.

Look at his stats from his 3 matches:

R1. 34 winners/15 UE
R2. 44 winners/23 UE
R3. 36 winners/15 UE.

So for the tournament that is 114 winners compared to just 53 unforced errors. Incredible. He might not move gracefully, he might not possess the biggest groundstrokes going around, but his mental strength, court craft and variety of shot will ensure that he is a very, very good player.


Last edited by Filppula: 06-27-2011 at 02:59 AM.
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06-27-2011, 07:47 AM
  #91
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Tomic is one of the more unique players on the tour, and the fact that heís just 18 makes the game he plays even more remarkable. He doesnít necessarily hit the ball hard off the ground, but he hits it with a lot more pace than it appears. Heís got that very unusual looking forehand and while it doesnít generate extreme pace, itís deceptively quick. If it were that slow, and that weak, why donít opponents bury it? He's played some very good players already in his young career, and it's interesting that none have gone out there and dominated him and feasted on his lack of power. He can explode on his groundstrokes and inject pace which seems to come from nowhere. As for his serve, itís improved a lot since he first turned pro as 2-3 years ago it was purely a point starter. In this tournament his average 1st serve speed is slightly above 180kph, go back a few years and that wouldíve been his fastest 1st serve speed. As he continues to fill out and gain strength, heíll only pick up more speed and gain more free points. 23 aces in 3 matches as an 18 year old is fine, in fact itís more than fine. Youíve got to remember that he is only 18, very few have explosive serves by that age. His serve has progressively got heavier as the years have gone by and at his height, will only become more of a weapon over time.

Now for his movement, this has always been his biggest issue, but let me tell you that heís only recently finished growing. He grew 24cm and added a huge amount of weight, all in the space of three years; in 2009 alone he grew 10cm. So for someone who perhaps wasnít a natural mover to begin with, it was always going to take time. Watching him now as opposed to when he first hit the tour you can see a noticeable improvement. Go back a few years Tomic still had the court craft and variety, but it was all too easy to go back behind Tomic, youíd simply have to wrong foot him and he was gone. His movement will never be elite, but itís improved a ton and it will continue to. His movement doesnít really stand out these days, and it will become less of an issue over the years as heís finally finished growing and he can hit the gym hard and strengthen his body.

Tomic makes up for his shortcomings with his incredible court craft and tennis smarts. Heís one of the smartest players Iíve seen, and heís still a teenager. Find himself out of position and heíll throw in a beautiful defensive slice right on the baseline to buy himself time. Heíll rarely hit two balls the same; heís constantly mixing it up, changing the pace of his shots and forcing his opponent to run from side to side as he dictates play. Heís stated that his biggest strength is finding out his opponents weakness, and you can see it by watching him. He knows exactly what to do out there, itís scary. The more you see him play, the more you appreciate his natural talent. Itís rare in this day and age to have someone so young read the game so well. His backhand slice is truly phenomenal, whether heís using it as an offensive or defensive shot, it is so tough to handle. As a 16 year old in his first GS he reached the 2nd round and was a set and a break up against Gilles Muller. A year later he took eventual SFíist Marin Cilic to 5 and had break points at 4 all in the 5th. A year later he beat the seeded Lopez and then acquitted himself well against Nadal. Heís building nicely and after this tournament heíll officially be ranked inside the top 100.

Look at his stats from his 3 matches:

R1. 34 winners/15 UE
R2. 44 winners/23 UE
R3. 36 winners/15 UE.

So for the tournament that is 114 winners compared to just 53 unforced errors. Incredible. He might not move gracefully, he might not possess the biggest groundstrokes going around, but his mental strength, court craft and variety of shot will ensure that he is a very, very good player.
Excellent post, Filppula.

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06-27-2011, 07:51 AM
  #92
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...didn't see it as it was over too fast, but the above-mentioned Tomic breezes into the quarters in straight sets over Malisse.

If there is such a thing as a swashbuckling backhand, Gasquet's got it. He still lost the first set tie breaker to Murray, though.


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06-27-2011, 08:10 AM
  #93
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Attaboy Tomic

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06-27-2011, 09:10 AM
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Gasquet may never be ready for the spotlight, and Kubot exposing Lopez's chintzy slice backhand.

I expected every men's R16 match, with the exception of Fed's and Djoke's, to be good. I was wrong.

BTW, put your hand up if you had the Pole in the quarters. LOL

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06-27-2011, 09:19 AM
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In a case of "the enemy of my enemy", Bartoli gave Serena the boot.

I won't be able to stand her tomorrow, but for now you go girl.

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06-27-2011, 09:22 AM
  #96
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In a case of "the enemy of my enemy", Bartoli gave Serena the boot.

I won't be able to stand her tomorrow, but for now you go girl.
Hopefully Venus is next.

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06-27-2011, 10:01 AM
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Everything about Bartoli, from her fat physique, "shrink" father, asinine mannerisms/quirks, her two-handed FH (you ain't Monica Seles, hun), to her nearly illegal racquet (since whales can't run, they require the benefit of, ironically, an extra large/long fishing net), is unlikeable.

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06-27-2011, 10:07 AM
  #98
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Hopefully Venus is next.
She just lost the first set to Pironkova, so let's hope that continues.

And she deserves to lose just for that outfit. That looks totally ridiculous, even for Venus.

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06-27-2011, 10:14 AM
  #99
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Everything about Bartoli, from her fat physique, "shrink" father, asinine mannerisms/quirks, her two-handed FH (you ain't Monica Seles, hun), to her nearly illegal racquet (since whales can't run, they require the benefit of, ironically, an extra large/long fishing net), is unlikeable.
Yeah, no kidding. I can tolerate players grunting a little bit, but her ridiculous racket waving and the hopping up and down...can't watch any of her matches. Does anyone like her?

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06-27-2011, 10:20 AM
  #100
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Don't forget her IQ of 175.

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