HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > General Hockey Discussion > Prospects
Notices

Prospects Discuss hockey prospects from all over the world and the NHL Draft.

JT Miller vs Mika Z

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-14-2011, 09:15 PM
  #1
rocketdan9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,277
vCash: 500
JT Miller vs Mika Z

I have seen a few games with both players at the U 18 tourney. While both played very good, i have to say JT Miller was a bit more impressive. He did have 5 more points in the end, helped team usa win Gold.

They are both hard working, two way centre/wings, skate well and skilled. JT Miller though has more offensive skills from what i saw, especially scoring department.

So the thing i don't get is , why does Mika Z get all the praise and high ranking for the up coming draft vs Miller??

What am i missing here

rocketdan9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 09:17 PM
  #2
ShawnTHW
@ShawnTHW
 
ShawnTHW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 8,877
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketdan9 View Post
I have seen a few games with both players at the U 18 tourney. While both played very good, i have to say JT Miller was a bit more impressive. He did have 5 more points in the end, helped team usa win Gold.

They are both hard working, two way centre/wings, skate well and skilled. JT Miller though has more offensive skills from what i saw, especially scoring department.

So the thing i don't get is , why does Mika Z get all the praise and high ranking for the up coming draft vs Miller??

What am i missing here
The answer to your question is A LOT

ShawnTHW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-14-2011, 09:27 PM
  #3
oilWILDcountry
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 2,510
vCash: 500
1 tournament and overall scoring race does not a prospect make.

oilWILDcountry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2011, 08:41 AM
  #4
Rabid Ranger
Imperiled Knight
 
Rabid Ranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: The Abyss
Country: United States
Posts: 19,309
vCash: 500
The USNTDP guys tend to be less of a known quantity then even those based overseas. Miller also had what I would consider an average year offensively. There's a lot to like, but IMO it will take awhile for him to put it all together. I see a lot of Kesler in his game.

Rabid Ranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2011, 09:11 AM
  #5
R S
Renegade Stylings
 
R S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,600
vCash: 4250
I like them both and I like Miller more then most people. I would love to see the Avs walk away with one of them at 11.

R S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2011, 09:12 AM
  #6
theIceWookie
Pessimism Revoked
 
theIceWookie's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Canada
Posts: 5,578
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by rocketdan9 View Post
I have seen a few games with both players at the U 18 tourney. While both played very good, i have to say JT Miller was a bit more impressive. He did have 5 more points in the end, helped team usa win Gold.

They are both hard working, two way centre/wings, skate well and skilled. JT Miller though has more offensive skills from what i saw, especially scoring department.

So the thing i don't get is , why does Mika Z get all the praise and high ranking for the up coming draft vs Miller??

What am i missing here
Zibejad is considered to be a lot more NHL ready. He has also played against man already, where Miller has not. That's not taking into account the discrepancies between the USNDTP and the SEL

theIceWookie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2011, 10:08 AM
  #7
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 21,523
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheFinnishKulemin View Post
Zibejad is considered to be a lot more NHL ready. He has also played against man already, where Miller has not. That's not taking into account the discrepancies between the USNDTP and the SEL
And it's not just that he played against men in the Eliteserien, he actually far exceeded his expectations as a U18 in that league, producing at a rate reminiscent of MPS when he was 17 playing in that league, and hence similar top 10 draft pick projections. He has already been tested physically against men, and excelled. He has been tested in the faceoff circle against men, and excelled. He has been tested defensively against men, and excelled. The guy has sick skills, and despite being barely over 6' and under 200 lbs, is described as a "modern power forward with good skating". There's just a whole lot to like about this guy, including intangibles like leadership qualities, and his improvement/development shows no signs of plateauing any time soon.

JT Miller is excellent in his own right. Plenty to like, but hasn't had the opportunity to show us anything beyond his ability to compete against his peer age group. Not to say that he couldn't compete well against men if given the opportunity, just that GMs don't have anything in that category upon which to base an evaluation. If GMs are looking for a "sure thing" that ALSO has plenty of upside, they'll naturally gravitate toward Zibanejad before Miller. We'll see how that works out in the future.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2011, 12:02 PM
  #8
Foppa
Registered User
 
Foppa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Kansas City, USA
Country: United States
Posts: 3,159
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
I like them both and I like Miller more then most people. I would love to see the Avs walk away with one of them at 11.
It really sounds more and more like Miller has worked himself into the thick of the equation after the first tier of guys go off the board (and the line between the first tier and second tier is pretty blurry at this point). I can imagine he's probably in the discussion with guys like Ziba, Strome, McNeill and Sheifele. I think he's got the potential to go much higher than most on this board would dare to predict...maybe even top 10.

Foppa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2011, 12:05 PM
  #9
Erza Scarlet
following the mantle
 
Erza Scarlet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: Requiem
Posts: 8,289
vCash: 500
one thing for sure, it's going to be a weird draft like last year.

Erza Scarlet is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2011, 01:01 PM
  #10
rocketdan9
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 2,277
vCash: 500
The issue with miller in the regular season was that he had try to carry the offense . With similiar talent,as in u18 he proved his worth.

rocketdan9 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2011, 01:06 PM
  #11
DJB
Sens best prospect
 
DJB's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Country: Canada
Posts: 7,768
vCash: 820
Miller speaks Rangers if you ask me...

Not sure why I think that. Just think that the Rangers will like him...

DJB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2011, 01:46 PM
  #12
Rabid Ranger
Imperiled Knight
 
Rabid Ranger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: The Abyss
Country: United States
Posts: 19,309
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by DJB View Post
Miller speaks Rangers if you ask me...

Not sure why I think that. Just think that the Rangers will like him...
Rangers or Habs.

Rabid Ranger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2011, 03:22 PM
  #13
GDU
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 1,375
vCash: 500
lots of teams could grab him at this point, carolina, even calgary... miller could easily go before schefiele and mcneil at this point...

GDU is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2011, 06:19 PM
  #14
hawksfan50
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,829
vCash: 500
MILLER has exceptional speed --Z's is just average from what i saw. BOTH hit --but MILLER hits with speed --and that gets him more hits and hurts the oppnent to a greater degree ---Miller is so TENACIOUS --teams will hate playing a ganst a guy like this -the sPEED also helps him cause turnovers off the forecheck -it is this 3-way combo of speed ,hitting,and tenaciousness to will you into"submission" that is so imprssive with Miller ...as to the offense---it all came together for him at the U-18....he finished a lot better than Grimadli and he set up guys too showing he could both shoot and pass with the best of his peers if not better ( well kUCHEROV shhots at a Bossy-like level --nobody in this draft is even close to that stratoshere of sniper) .


YOU put the whole package-all the tools together at MILLER projects to a perfect 2nd line NHL centre at a Kesler level or if he fully hits his upside to a MESSIER "franchise" level on the right team (the right team would be CHI --which would then have 2 J.T.'s -a winning idea both from a markete's level and from a hockey ops NEED level of the type of 2nd line centre required) .

Zibanejad could be a good NHl'er-but I think Miller has the whole enchilala to be the most IMPACTFUL player to the right team's success.

iF CHI had a Kesler-level #2 centre to go with a TOEWS as the #1 centre--imagine how much that would ease the burden on Toews? CHI would dominate.

IF MILLER took itall the way up to MESSIER level ? IF you had TROEWS and MESSIER -how many Cups would that give?

So my point is -- do not draft MILLER to be the #1go to guy centre-His roleshould rather be a very good #2 line centre who does other things the 312 line centre does not and who can ease the burden on that guy.


KESLER is not the same type as H. SEDIN -but he still is a vital cog in vAN's offense AND its defense ...


IN CHI"s case ---if they have Toews,Miller and Bolland (3rdline shutdown centre)--well it almost won;t be fair...

WILL MILLER last to #18? Even more interesting willSTAN be so stupid as to bypass this perfect solution if he is there?

Here is how i see it:

MILLER goes either at #10 #14 #15 or #16 or he last to #18 where CHI is nuts if they don't take him. BUT because he did not score enough till the u-18's MINN probably takes the proven consistent scorer (LW BARTSCHI ) --CGY at #13 probably opts for the "bigger" MCNEILL and the "dub" factor and the longer grind of its scheduke plus the fact McNeill fights -a CGY style player ...DAL needs a playmaker to replace Richards who could leave as a UFA ---or a PP QB --they never replaced Zubov ...IF BEAULIEU is there maybe they take him ;if not maybe they take a the exceptional hockey sense of ZACK PHILLIPS--he makes set-up plays and can finish too -they won't overllook those 95 pts...

NYR at #15--they aready have a gritty Dubinsky -so instead they probably bet on the upside of a Scheifele if they want a centre --or they go scorig winger -maybe they bet on KUCHREROV .or play it safer with ARMIA or JENSEN or RATTIE.IF PHILLIPS is still there--maybe they bite onhis 95pts and exceptional hockey sense seeking the skilled offense type from the centre position in priority .

BUFF at #16 -OLEKESIAK is there-imagine a TWIN TOWERS with Myers? IF they go to a winger -maybe they want more size and grit again--SAAD or BIGGS?
They could howver take MILLER or SCHEIFELE here if cente is a target

MTLat #!&--D-men needs in the pipeline...OLEKESIAK ifstill there or CONNOR MURPHY or BORDIN or KLEFBOM --- 3 or 4 good dprospects for them to choose.


CHI at #18 --MILLER or SCHEIFELE could still be there..maybe both..maybe neither.

I think that if MINN is not taking a centre at #10 -MILERR has a good chance to last till #18 ..but if they deem getting a #2 centre behind KOIVU as their #1 (even though ETA is still 2-3years away ) but I'm talking filling structural org needs from the pipeline feeder --then they could take MILLER ,SCHEIFELE or PHHILLIPS here
--but the lure of a big scorer like Bartschi might make them go that route ..

hawksfan50 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2011, 06:57 PM
  #15
R S
Renegade Stylings
 
R S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,600
vCash: 4250
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawksfan50 View Post
MILLER has exceptional speed --Z's is just average from what i saw. BOTH hit --but MILLER hits with speed --and that gets him more hits and hurts the oppnent to a greater degree ---Miller is so TENACIOUS --teams will hate playing a ganst a guy like this -the sPEED also helps him cause turnovers off the forecheck -it is this 3-way combo of speed ,hitting,and tenaciousness to will you into"submission" that is so imprssive with Miller ...as to the offense---it all came together for him at the U-18....he finished a lot better than Grimadli and he set up guys too showing he could both shoot and pass with the best of his peers if not better ( well kUCHEROV shhots at a Bossy-like level --nobody in this draft is even close to that stratoshere of sniper) .


YOU put the whole package-all the tools together at MILLER projects to a perfect 2nd line NHL centre at a Kesler level or if he fully hits his upside to a MESSIER "franchise" level on the right team (the right team would be CHI --which would then have 2 J.T.'s -a winning idea both from a markete's level and from a hockey ops NEED level of the type of 2nd line centre required) .

Zibanejad could be a good NHl'er-but I think Miller has the whole enchilala to be the most IMPACTFUL player to the right team's success.

iF CHI had a Kesler-level #2 centre to go with a TOEWS as the #1 centre--imagine how much that would ease the burden on Toews? CHI would dominate.

IF MILLER took itall the way up to MESSIER level ? IF you had TROEWS and MESSIER -how many Cups would that give?

So my point is -- do not draft MILLER to be the #1go to guy centre-His roleshould rather be a very good #2 line centre who does other things the 312 line centre does not and who can ease the burden on that guy.


KESLER is not the same type as H. SEDIN -but he still is a vital cog in vAN's offense AND its defense ...


IN CHI"s case ---if they have Toews,Miller and Bolland (3rdline shutdown centre)--well it almost won;t be fair...

WILL MILLER last to #18? Even more interesting willSTAN be so stupid as to bypass this perfect solution if he is there?

Here is how i see it:

MILLER goes either at #10 #14 #15 or #16 or he last to #18 where CHI is nuts if they don't take him. BUT because he did not score enough till the u-18's MINN probably takes the proven consistent scorer (LW BARTSCHI ) --CGY at #13 probably opts for the "bigger" MCNEILL and the "dub" factor and the longer grind of its scheduke plus the fact McNeill fights -a CGY style player ...DAL needs a playmaker to replace Richards who could leave as a UFA ---or a PP QB --they never replaced Zubov ...IF BEAULIEU is there maybe they take him ;if not maybe they take a the exceptional hockey sense of ZACK PHILLIPS--he makes set-up plays and can finish too -they won't overllook those 95 pts...

NYR at #15--they aready have a gritty Dubinsky -so instead they probably bet on the upside of a Scheifele if they want a centre --or they go scorig winger -maybe they bet on KUCHREROV .or play it safer with ARMIA or JENSEN or RATTIE.IF PHILLIPS is still there--maybe they bite onhis 95pts and exceptional hockey sense seeking the skilled offense type from the centre position in priority .

BUFF at #16 -OLEKESIAK is there-imagine a TWIN TOWERS with Myers? IF they go to a winger -maybe they want more size and grit again--SAAD or BIGGS?
They could howver take MILLER or SCHEIFELE here if cente is a target

MTLat #!&--D-men needs in the pipeline...OLEKESIAK ifstill there or CONNOR MURPHY or BORDIN or KLEFBOM --- 3 or 4 good dprospects for them to choose.


CHI at #18 --MILLER or SCHEIFELE could still be there..maybe both..maybe neither.

I think that if MINN is not taking a centre at #10 -MILERR has a good chance to last till #18 ..but if they deem getting a #2 centre behind KOIVU as their #1 (even though ETA is still 2-3years away ) but I'm talking filling structural org needs from the pipeline feeder --then they could take MILLER ,SCHEIFELE or PHHILLIPS here
--but the lure of a big scorer like Bartschi might make them go that route ..
Why do you post like this? I guarantee that about 90% of people just zoom right past your posts.

R S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2011, 07:00 PM
  #16
ShawnTHW
@ShawnTHW
 
ShawnTHW's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Country: United States
Posts: 8,877
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Why do you post like this? I guarantee that about 90% of people just zoom right past your posts.
+1.

Even if he didn't post like that, people still zoom right past his posts...

ShawnTHW is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2011, 07:03 PM
  #17
Cujomi
YNWA
 
Cujomi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,909
vCash: 500
His posts are interesting to read if you can get past the formatting. He's not stupid or anything.

Cujomi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2011, 07:14 PM
  #18
R S
Renegade Stylings
 
R S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,600
vCash: 4250
Quote:
Originally Posted by CPhoenixM View Post
His posts are interesting to read if you can get past the formatting. He's not stupid or anything.
Wouldn't know. Haven't read one in months.

EDIT: But being honest, I've tried to read them. They are rambling about all kinds of random things. Why doesn't he just get to the damn point?

R S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2011, 08:07 PM
  #19
Madic
Registered User
 
Madic's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 2,541
vCash: 500
You guys are just

JERKS.

I like PUDDING.

Madic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2011, 08:07 PM
  #20
HighLifeMan
HFB Partner
 
HighLifeMan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Posts: 4,909
vCash: 152
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Wouldn't know. Haven't read one in months.

EDIT: But being honest, I've tried to read them. They are rambling about all kinds of random things. Why doesn't he just get to the damn point?
I find that he pimps the players that the hawks have the greatest chance at drafting, and tries to take away from some off the players that are unlikely to drop to #18.

And yes the format he use's is unbearable.

With that being said, I still appreciate the effort he puts into his post.

HighLifeMan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2011, 08:33 PM
  #21
ManByng
Moroz fan
 
ManByng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,529
vCash: 500
the problem with Miller is he's apparently going to college until the 14/15 season is over, so whoever picks him is gonna have to wait a while for him to show up in their lineup, so a team that can afford to be patient will more than likely take him like Detroit or the Rangers or Washington.

ManByng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2011, 08:34 PM
  #22
R S
Renegade Stylings
 
R S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,600
vCash: 4250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Best Oil Ever View Post
the problem with Miller is he's apparently going to college until the 14/15 season is over, so whoever picks him is gonna have to wait a while for him to show up in their lineup, so a team that can afford to be patient will more than likely take him like Detroit or the Rangers or Washington.
Stuff like that changes all the time though. You can't say that now and expect it to be true in 1-3 years.

R S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2011, 08:39 PM
  #23
ManByng
Moroz fan
 
ManByng's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: St. Albert, Alberta
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,529
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Renegade Stylings View Post
Stuff like that changes all the time though. You can't say that now and expect it to be true in 1-3 years.
well......he has commited himself to 4 years of college as far as i have heard....but i suppose he could turn pro sooner.....i'd LOVE to see my Oilers take him at #31 if he were to fall to the 2nd round.

ManByng is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2011, 08:42 PM
  #24
R S
Renegade Stylings
 
R S's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 23,600
vCash: 4250
Quote:
Originally Posted by Best Oil Ever View Post
well......he has commited himself to 4 years of college as far as i have heard....but i suppose he could turn pro sooner.....i'd LOVE to see my Oilers take him at #31 if he were to fall to the 2nd round.
Committments change all the time. And there is no way he falls to 31. Well, I guess it could. But it won't.

R S is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-15-2011, 09:04 PM
  #25
Csonked Out
Registered User
 
Csonked Out's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Bismarck, ND
Posts: 1,176
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Best Oil Ever View Post
the problem with Miller is he's apparently going to college until the 14/15 season is over, so whoever picks him is gonna have to wait a while for him to show up in their lineup, so a team that can afford to be patient will more than likely take him like Detroit or the Rangers or Washington.
He was reportedly telling teams during his interview that he could be open to the OHL if a team preferred that route for him. I full expect him to attend UND, but there are rumblings that he will be a one and done type of player.

Csonked Out is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:18 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.