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[CBJ/MTL] Wisniewski's rights for a Cond. 7th (5th if he signs in CBJ) (post #302)

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06-29-2011, 03:06 PM
  #351
bipolarhabfan
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PG probaly knew that Wiz would be too rich for the Habs to aford when they need to shore up their top-6. Wiz knows it is his time to cash in so he would not take a discount to stay with the Habs.

What this, along with the refusal of a one-year deal by Hamr, is that we need some help on our backline. I would not be happy seeing a Spacek-Emelin combo. I would rather have someone more reliable playing with Emelin.

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06-29-2011, 03:06 PM
  #352
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Offensively? A
Defensively? C+
PP A+
PK Not sure.

Overall he can be anywhere from a B+ to a C+ imo in terms of overall play on a game to game basis.

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06-29-2011, 03:07 PM
  #353
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeThreeKings View Post
At least we didn't lose him for nothing. A 7th rounder or a 5th rounder, might not be anything, but it's a shot at something.
I agree - something is better than nothing. And let's not fool ourselves, Wiz was only really brought in to fill the void of Markov being out. Markov is back in the saddle, we move on.

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06-29-2011, 03:08 PM
  #354
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Originally Posted by Tuggy View Post
So you think worth Wiz is worth 5+ million a season?
Yes, in a $64m cap world. Giving Wiz $5m in this cap world is basically the equivalent of a $3.75m cap player in 2005-06 after the lockout.

People are too hung up on nice round numbers like $5m instead of looking at the overall cap hit as a percentage.

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06-29-2011, 03:08 PM
  #355
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bipolarhabfan View Post
PG probaly knew that Wiz would be too rich for the Habs to aford when they need to shore up their top-6. Wiz knows it is his time to cash in so he would not take a discount to stay with the Habs.

What this, along with the refusal of a one-year deal by Hamr, is that we need some help on our backline. I would not be happy seeing a Spacek-Emelin combo. I would rather have someone more reliable playing with Emelin.
I would go ahead and offer Hamrlik 2 years for 3M per right now given the lack of quality top 4 D in the UFA.

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06-29-2011, 03:09 PM
  #356
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I agree, I think we could have gotten a 5th and a conditional 4th if the Isles got a 4th for Ehrhoff.

But its better than nothing. I won't complain.
I think the fact that they didn't is pretty much proof that they couldn't. It's not like Montreal wouldn't send Wiz to the highest bidder at this point. I believe Ehrhoff is seen as more desirable then Wisniewski.

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06-29-2011, 03:09 PM
  #357
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Now I want the JovoCop.

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06-29-2011, 03:09 PM
  #358
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Wouldn't of minded seeing Hejda's rights brought back but I guess Columbus is trying to re-sign him.

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06-29-2011, 03:09 PM
  #359
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Congrats to Eklund for breaking this deal first.

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06-29-2011, 03:09 PM
  #360
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
It's less about this one move in particular, and more about the pattern of assets given up almost literally for nothing/0 return on losses with the acquisition and loss of guys like Souray, Schneider, MAB, Moore, Wisniewski, etc. Could have a whole new 5 man unit in the pipeline right now from those situations alone, if they were dealt with differently, given Timmins' success in the 2nd and 3rd rounds.
Same can be said for other teams, and please, Schneider, MAB and Moore, let it go. We got something back for Wiz. Don't care if you think it's not a enough, it's a compensation instead of nothing.
I'd say you might have a case for just a couple players, as for the rest, it happens every year for multiple teams.

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06-29-2011, 03:10 PM
  #361
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Originally Posted by bipolarhabfan View Post
PG probaly knew that Wiz would be too rich for the Habs to aford when they need to shore up their top-6. Wiz knows it is his time to cash in so he would not take a discount to stay with the Habs.

What this, along with the refusal of a one-year deal by Hamr, is that we need some help on our backline. I would not be happy seeing a Spacek-Emelin combo. I would rather have someone more reliable playing with Emelin.
For good 3rd pairing defensemen it doesn't get much reliable than Spacek.

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06-29-2011, 03:12 PM
  #362
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I'll never forget that sequence vs the Bruins in the playoffs where he slammed a Bruin into the boards and then dropped the gloves right after with a mean look on his face

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06-29-2011, 03:12 PM
  #363
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My guess is the 7th is because it was so late (prior to UFA day)
I don't understand how he couldn't have gone for more, seeing as to he is a sought after piece of the puzzle.

KNOWING Detroit is kicking the tires on him as a suitable replacement for Rafalski, I just am surprised Gaut's couldn't of gotten SOMETHING for him at the draft...

It really does kind of surprise me a bit that something COULDNT have been done sooner (I was heading in to draft day thinking this was a piece that COULD've gotten us something).

Ah well, a 7th/5th is better than nothing.

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06-29-2011, 03:12 PM
  #364
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
I think the fact that they didn't is pretty much proof that they couldn't. It's not like Montreal wouldn't send Wiz to the highest bidder at this point. I believe Ehrhoff is seen as more desirable then Wisniewski.
Not in Montreal. Over here people believe Montreal always takes a cheaper deal.
We could have had more for Halak, more for Wiz, more for every trade basically.
I think people are still traumatized of the Houle era where assets were truly wasted and given up for practically free, a la Milbury. So 99% of the time there's a trade, we either gave up too much or didn't receive enough. Mtl baby!

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06-29-2011, 03:13 PM
  #365
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This works for me because I'm a CBJ fan as well, so I still get to follow Wiz!

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06-29-2011, 03:13 PM
  #366
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it was inevitable

I dont know why Gauthier waited for so long to trade his rights but what ever, atleast he isnt signing in the east

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06-29-2011, 03:15 PM
  #367
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Well I guess this is good news in the sense that there is another 5 mill available to get some offensive depth. I stand by wanting Montador!!!

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06-29-2011, 03:15 PM
  #368
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Originally Posted by nittany View Post
As opposed to agreeing with every decision made?

Pretty clear July 1st will come and go with little to no improvement to our team.
Pretty obvious considering how weak the UFA pool is this year.

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06-29-2011, 03:16 PM
  #369
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Originally Posted by Carl Carmoni View Post
it was inevitable

I dont know why Gauthier waited for so long to trade his rights but what ever, atleast he isnt signing in the east
There could be a whole host of factors.

1. Teams were playing hardball and weren't offering anything.
2. Maybe the habs were trying to sign him but Wisniewski was being unreasonable
3.Maybe teams suddenly realized that there will be a bidding war on July 1st and were now willing to pay to get to talk early.
4. Gauthier is an idiot

for some reason I think 1-3 is more plausible that 4, yet it won't stop many from thinking number 4.

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06-29-2011, 03:16 PM
  #370
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Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Sure while taht may true, a team can't always stop itself from making moves because of could haves and ifs.

With a mentality like that, no team should ever make trades.

You gamble, it works sometimes, it doesn't at others, that's the price you pay for being a team that is making the playoffs. Go look for yourself, almost every playoff team last year wasted assets from immediate rather than long-term gain. This is not something specific to the canadiens, rather it is something specific of playoff teams.
No, the point is, teams shouldn't use relatively high picks on deadline stop-gap acquisitions that won't make them any more of a legit Cup contender if they aren't serious about keeping the player past the end of the season. Wisniewski already had a price tag of $3.25M, and the cap has gone up by more than the raise he is expected to get, and almost everyone so far has been signed back at the same price tag, so balking at his salary demands doesn't make that much sense, unless the philosophy this year is that no one is getting raises, lol (Markov, Gill, maybe Hamrlik once we find out the details of his offer, and we'll see how much gets dangled in front of Gorges and Auld). You lose in first round, no soup for you!

Or, unless there are actually plans to use that cap space to add something useful instead of just relying on overall improvement of what we already had before Wiz.

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06-29-2011, 03:16 PM
  #371
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I'd rather keep the money..maybe sign Rupp and a backup for Price.

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06-29-2011, 03:17 PM
  #372
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Carmoni View Post
it was inevitable

I dont know why Gauthier waited for so long to trade his rights but what ever, atleast he isnt signing in the east
who's to say he's the one who waited ?

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06-29-2011, 03:20 PM
  #373
Ohashi_Jouzu
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Same can be said for other teams, and please, Schneider, MAB and Moore, let it go. We got something back for Wiz. Don't care if you think it's not a enough, it's a compensation instead of nothing.
I'd say you might have a case for just a couple players, as for the rest, it happens every year for multiple teams.
I "let them go" as soon as each one of them happened. It's becoming less of the reality that most teams face, and more of a particularly glaring pattern of wasted assets. And please, Kriss, don't perpetuate the "something is better than nothing" mantra that has been plaguing this team for way too long now. I don't apologize for wanting better than that for my favourite team, and the best franchise in the history of the league.

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06-29-2011, 03:21 PM
  #374
Andy
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No, the point is, teams shouldn't use relatively high picks on deadline stop-gap acquisitions that won't make them any more of a legit Cup contender if they aren't serious about keeping the player past the end of the season.
Theoretically they shouldn't, but it still doesn't stop them from doing it. This has been commonplace in the nhl for quite sometime, I don't know why it's become such an issue all of a sudden. It happens every year with every playoff bound team. It's quite obvious that most GMs believe they have a chance at a cup simply by making the playoffs. This is why multiple teams give up relatively high assets for short-term gain.

Quote:
Wisniewski already had a price tag of $3.25M, and the cap has gone up by more than the raise he is expected to get, and almost everyone so far has been signed back at the same price tag, so balking at his salary demands doesn't make that much sense, unless the philosophy this year is that no one is getting raises, lol (Markov, Gill, maybe Hamrlik once we find out the details of his offer, and we'll see how much gets dangled in front of Gorges and Auld). You lose in first round, no soup for you!
We've discussed this before(briefly), but it's quite obvious that PG and management think that paying 5+ million for Wisniewski is too much and I agree with them.

Quote:
Or, unless there are actually plans to use that cap space to add something useful instead of just relying on overall improvement of what we already had before Wiz.
Could be, we'll wait and see what happens in the next couple of days.

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06-29-2011, 03:22 PM
  #375
Patccmoi
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
No, the point is, teams shouldn't use relatively high picks on deadline stop-gap acquisitions that won't make them any more of a legit Cup contender if they aren't serious about keeping the player past the end of the season. Wisniewski already had a price tag of $3.25M, and the cap has gone up by more than the raise he is expected to get, and almost everyone so far has been signed back at the same price tag, so balking at his salary demands doesn't make that much sense, unless the philosophy this year is that no one is getting raises, lol (Markov, Gill, maybe Hamrlik once we find out the details of his offer, and we'll see how much gets dangled in front of Gorges and Auld). You lose in first round, no soup for you!

Or, unless there are actually plans to use that cap space to add something useful instead of just relying on overall improvement of what we already had before Wiz.
You fail to understand the business part of hockey.

Making the playoffs is VERY important. A 2nd round pick for making the playoffs is worth it and any organization would pay it (a lot of the time they lack more than that to do it though).

What matters the year after is : does resigning the guy makes my team better in the future or not. If it does, resign, if you believe you will be better in the long run by letting him go (for whatever reason, there can be many) then do it. You build in function of what's best for the future, not trying to look good for what you did in the past.

When you're a contender and going for the cup, you can consider giving stuff like 1st round picks (hell, Boston gave 1st + 2nd + 1st round prospect for Kaberle). But many teams will consider giving 2nd round pick/2nd round value prospect for making the playoffs if they believe they will with the trade, which is what the Habs did and it's fine.

Hockey is a business, and playoffs is where you make the most money. It's as simple as that.

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