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[CBJ/MTL] Wisniewski's rights for a Cond. 7th (5th if he signs in CBJ) (post #302)

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06-28-2011, 05:53 PM
  #176
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Originally Posted by OpenIceHit View Post
For one or two extra millions, I'd be willing to do it. Last year, Lidstrom was at 6.2M, Rafalski at 6M and Kronwall at 3M. Anyway...
Why waste it there instead of adding a couple of wingers with size up front. If we need depth in PMD's and PP help Weber and Diaz are there.

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06-28-2011, 05:58 PM
  #177
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so OJ, I have to ask, do you think Pitkanen (age 27) signing back in Carolina for 4.5M/per- 3 years, is as much as he would have gotten on the open market?

b/c I don't think so. I think, especially after Bieksa (who also probably left some money on the table in taking 4.6M to re-sign in Vcr- even if i don't value him at more than that, i'm sure other teams would have), that it's abundantly clear that Pitkanen decided to sign a deal the Hurricanes could manage instead of testing free agency and confirming the obvious... that other teams with higher payrolls and money to spend would easily have paid him 5M+.

as I alluded to earlier, if Wiz was serious about wanting to stay in Montreal, there would be no need for him to test the market and drive his price up. He'd have taken the 4-5M$ deal PG was offering him (that's pure speculation, I doubt PG would have gone under 4M$, and if he went over 5M$ and Wiz still said no, it only reinforces the point).and begun settling himself permanantely down in 'la belle province'


Happens every year, and will continue to happen every year, b/c believe it or not, money isn't everything.

an athlete who "gets it" (from a purely sport/athletic career pov), will be far more concerned at 26-27-28... with playing in the right environment (wether that means the right city, the right organization, teammates/linemates, coaching staff... whatever he feels gives him the best shot at achieving his career goals, both personal/team), than he will be with getting every last penny out of his career.

and that's not to say that a player driven to maximize his earning is "immature", only that if this is the case, then his priority is clearly on profit as opposed to performance.

some athletes figure out sooner than others that their careers really are both finite and short, and once the ability to play at that level is gone, no amount of savings in the world can "buy it back". Those who do figure it out, take less money to give themselves every possibility to both enjoy and make the most out of their career on the ice.
Good post.

I've also been saying for weeks that Pitkanen's open market value was around 5.25-5.5M and that Bieksa's was in the 5M region (I also don't value him any higher than his current deal).

Right now I think Wiz on the open market is looking in and around 5-5.5M.. All depends who shows interest and what not. I could see him signing in Detroit for as little as 4.5-4.75M. It's home for him, it's a winning team, management is very aggressive in getting 'good' contracts. If he falls to a re-building team and he's looking for a pay day, I don't think 5.5M is out of the question.

Ehrhoff I put in a similar boat, I could see him in Vancouver for 4.75-5M. If he lands on a contender he'll be in the 5.25-5.5M region and if he goes to a rebuilding team I wouldn't doubt he can fetch close to 6M.

I love playing these speculation games to see how close/far I am. I nailed the Komisarek deal on the nose 2 seasons ago.

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06-28-2011, 06:11 PM
  #178
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Cmon Gauthier, do the right thing! Sign this guy. As long as he doesn't have a NTC...
I won't understand it if we don't sign this guy. If for no other reason than the fact that we can't count on Markov to stay healthy.

If Markov comes back and fires on all cylanders, then at the very least Wiz becomes a trading chip that we can use down the road. If Markov's knee blows up again though, we've got a guy who can help out on the PP. Trading for him last year was a great move and it had a lot to do with us getting into the playoffs. Last year would've been a lot tougher without him in the lineup.

Not sure why we want to let this guy walk away. He's good, he's young and he fits with our club.

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06-28-2011, 06:20 PM
  #179
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Maybe Wiz wants Markov money and PG won't pay it. It would disrupt more than solve as far as the defence is concern. Its pretty set that Markov will be the highest paid defence and everyone else falls behind in pay scale according to importance. If Wiz is not prepared to fall in line, PG has no choice but to let him go. It would screw up the salary structure for the rest of the team.

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06-28-2011, 06:30 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by habsrule22 View Post
Maybe Wiz wants Markov money and PG won't pay it.
If that was the case, then he should have shopped his rights.

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06-28-2011, 06:33 PM
  #181
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If that was the case, then he should have shopped his rights.
I'm pretty sure he does. Why he wouldn't trade his right since he's one of the top UFa this year? PG is far from being a moron.

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06-28-2011, 06:37 PM
  #182
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I'm pretty sure he does. Why he wouldn't trade his right since he's one of the top UFa this year? PG is far from being a moron.
That's what Gainey did 2 summers ago, most UFAs were just let go, without the Habs getting anything in return iirc.

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06-28-2011, 06:41 PM
  #183
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Originally Posted by JackieChan View Post
That's what Gainey did 2 summers ago, most UFAs were just let go, without the Habs getting anything in return iirc.
It's not because their rights weren't traded that they weren't shopped. The same way that it's not because Wisniewski's rights were not traded that Gauthier did not try to shop them.

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06-28-2011, 06:42 PM
  #184
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
Good post.

I've also been saying for weeks that Pitkanen's open market value was around 5.25-5.5M and that Bieksa's was in the 5M region (I also don't value him any higher than his current deal).

Right now I think Wiz on the open market is looking in and around 5-5.5M.. All depends who shows interest and what not. I could see him signing in Detroit for as little as 4.5-4.75M. It's home for him, it's a winning team, management is very aggressive in getting 'good' contracts. If he falls to a re-building team and he's looking for a pay day, I don't think 5.5M is out of the question.

Ehrhoff I put in a similar boat, I could see him in Vancouver for 4.75-5M. If he lands on a contender he'll be in the 5.25-5.5M region and if he goes to a rebuilding team I wouldn't doubt he can fetch close to 6M.

I love playing these speculation games to see how close/far I am. I nailed the Komisarek deal on the nose 2 seasons ago.
Looks like Wiz going to hit the jackpot

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06-28-2011, 06:52 PM
  #185
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Originally Posted by habsrule22 View Post
Maybe Wiz wants Markov money and PG won't pay it. It would disrupt more than solve as far as the defence is concern. Its pretty set that Markov will be the highest paid defence and everyone else falls behind in pay scale according to importance. If Wiz is not prepared to fall in line, PG has no choice but to let him go. It would screw up the salary structure for the rest of the team.
I think Wiz wants 4.5-5 million.

It doesn't make sense not to sign him. If for no other reason than the fact that we shouldn't just let him go for nothing. Other teams would be happy to trade for him at that price. We can't just keep letting players walk away and get nothing in return.

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06-28-2011, 07:00 PM
  #186
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Confirmed Trade with Link [NYI/VAN] Ehrhoff's Rights to NYI for 4th rounder ‎

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06-28-2011, 08:32 PM
  #187
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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
so OJ, I have to ask, do you think Pitkanen (age 27) signing back in Carolina for 4.5M/per- 3 years, is as much as he would have gotten on the open market?

b/c I don't think so. I think, especially after Bieksa (who also probably left some money on the table in taking 4.6M to re-sign in Vcr- even if i don't value him at more than that, i'm sure other teams would have), that it's abundantly clear that Pitkanen decided to sign a deal the Hurricanes could manage instead of testing free agency and confirming the obvious... that other teams with higher payrolls and money to spend would easily have paid him 5M+.
I think he was probably worth about $500K more than that (as was Bieksa, perhaps), so that's really not a whole lot to "leave on the table".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
as I alluded to earlier, if Wiz was serious about wanting to stay in Montreal, there would be no need for him to test the market and drive his price up. He'd have taken the 4-5M$ deal PG was offering him (that's pure speculation, I doubt PG would have gone under 4M$, and if he went over 5M$ and Wiz still said no, it only reinforces the point).and begun settling himself permanantely down in 'la belle province'
Not quite prepared to go in depth about allusions to pure speculation, nor the points they "reinforce".

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Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
Happens every year, and will continue to happen every year, b/c believe it or not, money isn't everything.
Well, the fun part is how we behind our keyboards determine an exact price that a player is "worth", when it's obviously more like a range. Every time someone points to someone as a comparison at one price, it's plenty easy to find another comparison for another price. Result is that there is a "fair range" of what a player is worth, and perhaps there are more players that sign nearer the bottom of that range to stay with their clubs than I thought. It still seems to me like more players who end up testing free agency end up taking higher offers from other teams instead of fielding offers, and then going back to their old team instead "at a discount" if the offers weren't "high enough".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Miller Time View Post
an athlete who "gets it" (from a purely sport/athletic career pov), will be far more concerned at 26-27-28... with playing in the right environment (wether that means the right city, the right organization, teammates/linemates, coaching staff... whatever he feels gives him the best shot at achieving his career goals, both personal/team), than he will be with getting every last penny out of his career.

and that's not to say that a player driven to maximize his earning is "immature", only that if this is the case, then his priority is clearly on profit as opposed to performance.

some athletes figure out sooner than others that their careers really are both finite and short, and once the ability to play at that level is gone, no amount of savings in the world can "buy it back". Those who do figure it out, take less money to give themselves every possibility to both enjoy and make the most out of their career on the ice.
You're right, some athletes DO "get it" (many others don't, though), and perhaps Pitkanen is one of them. He and Bieksa taking a bit less money then they're "worth" doesn't change the fact that many UFAs reject offers from their teams each year, and go to the highest bidder on the open market. This year has certainly made me think that my perception of how often one case happens relative to the other might be a bit off, though, and maybe I've mistaken players simply wanting to get out of a situation for attempting to maximize their contract dollars. That's totally possible. I don't scrutinize every single UFA signing, mostly the big name ones. Having said all that, it didn't take too long to find one Ehrhoff for every Pitkanen.


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06-28-2011, 08:39 PM
  #188
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I have a sick feeling hes going to boston, and how great would he be with them. They are all about hammering the puck on the pp. He is rugged and fights. UGH.

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06-28-2011, 08:50 PM
  #189
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so OJ, I have to ask, do you think Pitkanen (age 27) signing back in Carolina for 4.5M/per- 3 years, is as much as he would have gotten on the open market?

b/c I don't think so...
Plus, the Raleigh-Chapel Hill area is one of the truly nice places to live in the US. Relatively safe area, one of the few that has created jobs throughout the recession, housing still cheap, nice climate, a lot of nature all around, not too far from the coast, southern warmth of locals... Also, a house that sells $300K here is more expensive in Montreal, let alone Vancouver, New York, or San Jose, plus mortgates are income tax-deductible in the US. [While I am leaving the area for an offer that is tough to beat (faculty position), it's with some regret: my wife and I really liked it here.]

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06-28-2011, 08:55 PM
  #190
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So long, White Lightning.

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06-28-2011, 09:14 PM
  #191
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Originally Posted by Lafleurs Guy View Post
I think Wiz wants 4.5-5 million.

It doesn't make sense not to sign him. If for no other reason than the fact that we shouldn't just let him go for nothing. Other teams would be happy to trade for him at that price. We can't just keep letting players walk away and get nothing in return.
On this market? I really think he hopes to have at least 6 millions. He may not get that, but it's worth a try.

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06-28-2011, 09:18 PM
  #192
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That's what Gainey did 2 summers ago, most UFAs were just let go, without the Habs getting anything in return iirc.
Yeah but Gainey's a complete imbecile. PG hasn't proven himself that ******** yet.

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06-28-2011, 09:35 PM
  #193
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I won't understand it if we don't sign this guy. If for no other reason than the fact that we can't count on Markov to stay healthy.

If Markov comes back and fires on all cylanders, then at the very least Wiz becomes a trading chip that we can use down the road. If Markov's knee blows up again though, we've got a guy who can help out on the PP. Trading for him last year was a great move and it had a lot to do with us getting into the playoffs. Last year would've been a lot tougher without him in the lineup.

Not sure why we want to let this guy walk away. He's good, he's young and he fits with our club.
The money tied up on Gil,Spacek and if rumor is true,Hamr,would be much better used for Wiz and Mara.

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06-28-2011, 09:42 PM
  #194
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Wiz simply isn't worth as much to us as he is to other teams. With Markov, Subban and Weber, we've got enough undersized guys with major league shots. If Markov goes down again we lose the gamble, but the truth is Wiz is injury-prone himself. Was it worth taking himself out of the playoffs to fight? Love the 'tude, but Wiz has a lot of weaknesses. Bottom line he's really bad in his own end, there's no denying it.

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06-28-2011, 09:46 PM
  #195
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Wiz simply isn't worth as much to us as he is to other teams. With Markov, Subban and Weber, we've got enough undersized guys with major league shots. If Markov goes down again we lose the gamble, but the truth is Wiz is injury-prone himself. Was it worth taking himself out of the playoffs to fight? Love the 'tude, but Wiz has a lot of weaknesses. Bottom line he's really bad in his own end, there's no denying it.
This is me, denying it.

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06-28-2011, 09:52 PM
  #196
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This is me, denying it.
Really? I don't mean to run him down. I think he's a legit top unit offensive d man and a legit top 4 player on a good team because he contributes in all three zones. But he's worse in his own zone than anywhere else, especially in terms of turnovers that lead directly to A-1 quality scoring opportunities. I don't really mean to say he's terrible, but as a top 4 guy he's really flawed in his defensive game, especially compared to all his other attributes. Do you find that description of Wiz inaccurate? Do you find him good in his own zone? Average?

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06-28-2011, 09:54 PM
  #197
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Really? I don't mean to run him down. I think he's a legit top unit offensive d man and a legit top 4 player on a good team because he contributes in all three zones. But he's worse in his own zone than anywhere else, especially in terms of turnovers that lead directly to A-1 quality scoring opportunities. Obviously, I've overstated the case, of course people will disagree, but do you find that description of Wiz innaccurate?
It's fine if you say that he's worse in his own zone than anywhere else. Just don't throw it out there as if he's worse in his own zone than any/everyone else.

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06-28-2011, 09:54 PM
  #198
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the wiz is so weak defensively .reminds me of mab.i ll take hammer for a fraction.

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06-28-2011, 09:58 PM
  #199
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I cant beleive PG wants hammer and not wiz

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06-28-2011, 09:59 PM
  #200
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Wiz simply isn't worth as much to us as he is to other teams. With Markov, Subban and Weber, we've got enough undersized guys with major league shots. If Markov goes down again we lose the gamble, but the truth is Wiz is injury-prone himself. Was it worth taking himself out of the playoffs to fight? Love the 'tude, but Wiz has a lot of weaknesses. Bottom line he's really bad in his own end, there's no denying it.
Oh yes. Weber. Weber with his 1 career PP goal. If Weber was so fantastic we wouldn't of had to go out and get Wiz 6 months ago. He's still a project at this point.

And given that he's a project, who do you pair him with on PP2? Hammer? I'd rather save Hammer (who isn't even signed at this point) for 5-on-5 and PK ice-time. Spacek? I'd watch that just for the comedy of errors that would ensue.

What gamble are we even talking about here? Letting Wiz walk? Usually in a gambling scenario there's risk but there's also reward. What's the reward for letting him walk? To save money? Save money for whom? The FA market is dead both upfront and on D.

It's funny how we finally start adding some attitude on our back-end and people want to throw it back into the water. Wiz might only be 5'11 but he has more toughness in his pinky finger than 6'7 Gill.

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