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Old
06-15-2011, 08:18 PM
  #51
EucaLEAFtys
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
As an RFA he's worth a 1st + 3rd, he put up 62 points, and is still only 26, why wouldn't he be able to get us a late 1st?

Just because other fan bases put him down (and all leafs players and fans for that matter) doesn't mean they are right. See Kaberle, Beauchemin, Versteeg, etc
Oh.. and when EXACTLY did they get moved?

That's right... they were all moved either near to or at the TRADE DEADLINE, a time when play-off contenders get desperate to improve themselves for their play-off runs and overpay in the process. lol

We're talking about the Draft here. No sane GM would pony up a late 1st, let alone a 1st AND a 3rd (when they could just use either pick to draft someone with similar talent and upside) for a guy who's only had ONE good season.

If Burke and MacArthur can't come to agreeable terms on a new contract, then he'll likely be moved for an NHL-ready prospect or two.. not another draft pick.

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06-15-2011, 08:25 PM
  #52
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Originally Posted by EucaLEAFtys View Post
Oh.. and when EXACTLY did they get moved?

That's right... they were all moved either near to or at the TRADE DEADLINE, a time when play-off contenders get desperate to improve themselves for their play-off runs and overpay in the process. lol

We're talking about the Draft here. No sane GM would pony up a late 1st, let alone a 1st AND a 3rd (when they could just use either pick to draft someone with similar talent and upside) for a guy who's only had ONE good season.

If Burke and MacArthur can't come to agreeable terms on a new contract, then he'll likely be moved for an NHL-ready prospect or two.. not another draft pick.
Many players get traded on draft day (or near it) Horton, wideman, Ballard, Grabner, etc

If a team feels that MacArthur is a better option than a player available, they definitely will make the trade.

Ballard landed Grabner, Bernier, and the 25th overall pick.

To say that MacArthur cannot fetch similar is asinine.

At the end of the day it all depends on what the teams are looking for. But it is definitely a possibility

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06-15-2011, 08:37 PM
  #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EucaLEAFtys View Post
Oh.. and when EXACTLY did they get moved?

That's right... they were all moved either near to or at the TRADE DEADLINE, a time when play-off contenders get desperate to improve themselves for their play-off runs and overpay in the process. lol

We're talking about the Draft here. No sane GM would pony up a late 1st, let alone a 1st AND a 3rd (when they could just use either pick to draft someone with similar talent and upside) for a guy who's only had ONE good season.

If Burke and MacArthur can't come to agreeable terms on a new contract, then he'll likely be moved for an NHL-ready prospect or two.. not another draft pick.
Macarthur is more proven than those 1st rounders. He also will make more of an impact on a team than any of the free agents, aside from Richards, Laich and maybe 1 or 2 others.
He also will not likely cost as much as Laich. He may not do quite as much in his overall game, but he is a cheaper option on the wing for teams that are tight to the cap. Macarthur IS worth a 1st, for any sane GM picking between 15-30.

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06-15-2011, 09:28 PM
  #54
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
MacArthur could easily get a 1st round pick, regardless of what people on HF think. If negotiations do not go well between Burke and Mac expect him moved for a 1st rounder and maybe even more.
IMO Kadri is better suited on the second line rather than the third that many have him penciled into. As far as Macarthur getting a first round pick in a trade, if his salary demands were similar to Grabovski, I believe that would be the equivalent of a second round pick. Wouldn't be sad to see Mac traded, not sure he would get a first though.

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06-15-2011, 09:39 PM
  #55
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
IMO Kadri is better suited on the second line rather than the third that many have him penciled into. As far as Macarthur getting a first round pick in a trade, if his salary demands were similar to Grabovski, I believe that would be the equivalent of a second round pick. Wouldn't be sad to see Mac traded, not sure he would get a first though.
I agree with the fact that Kadri is a better fit for the 2nd line. But the salary he wants is irrelevant to his value. A team would start negotiations after they acquire his rights. So for all we know MacArthur could be demanding 5 million a year.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. But I'm pretty sure a team isn't allowed to start negotiations with an RFA until they acquired the owning team's permission or the players rights

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06-15-2011, 09:46 PM
  #56
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Many players get traded on draft day (or near it) Horton, wideman, Ballard, Grabner, etc

If a team feels that MacArthur is a better option than a player available, they definitely will make the trade.

Ballard landed Grabner, Bernier, and the 25th overall pick.

To say that MacArthur cannot fetch similar is asinine.

At the end of the day it all depends on what the teams are looking for. But it is definitely a possibility
Yes, players can (and have) been traded on, or near, Draft Day. I've never disputed that.

What I have disputed is the notion that MacArthur, a guy who is just coming off of his best NHL season EVER, is worth a late 1st rounder and a 3rd rounder when he himself isn't really proven as an NHL'er. If he had two or three seasons like this past one under his belt, then maybe he be worth what you suggest. As it stands right now, I don't believe he's even close to that kind of value, especially at the Draft.

As for Ballard getting Grabner (waived by the Panthers, claimed by the Islanders, and is now a ROY candidate), S. Bernier (recently waived and released by the Panthers, AND has already failed to stick with at least 3 or 4 NHL teams in his short career), and the 25th overall pick, it's nothing to write home about AND the situations are completely different. Nice try, though. At least Ballard was (and is) an established player when that trade happened; the same cannot be said for MacArthur.

To say that MacArthut can fetch a similar return IS asinine.

At the end of the day, it's a possibility only for those who are foolish enough to believe it.

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06-15-2011, 09:53 PM
  #57
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
I agree with the fact that Kadri is a better fit for the 2nd line. But the salary he wants is irrelevant to his value. A team would start negotiations after they acquire his rights. So for all we know MacArthur could be demanding 5 million a year.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong. But I'm pretty sure a team isn't allowed to start negotiations with an RFA until they acquired the owning team's permission or the players rights
My point is a team could simply tender him an offer if contract negotiations aren't moving forward with the Leafs. A team could offer the max salary that is equivelant to a second round pick (likely his worth salary wise) hence if he is worth a 2nd round pick if tendered another contract as an RFA, why would a team trade a 1st round pick?

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06-15-2011, 09:57 PM
  #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EucaLEAFtys View Post
Yes, players can (and have) been traded on, or near, Draft Day. I've never disputed that.

What I have disputed is the notion that MacArthur, a guy who is just coming off of his best NHL season EVER, is worth a late 1st rounder and a 3rd rounder when he himself isn't really proven as an NHL'er. If he had two or three seasons like this past one under his belt, then maybe he be worth what you suggest. As it stands right now, I don't believe he's even close to that kind of value, especially at the Draft.

As for Ballard getting Grabner (waived by the Panthers, claimed by the Islanders, and is now a ROY candidate), S. Bernier (recently waived and released by the Panthers, AND has already failed to stick with at least 3 or 4 NHL teams in his short career), and the 25th overall pick, it's nothing to write home about AND the situations are completely different. Nice try, though. At least Ballard was (and is) an established player when that trade happened; the same cannot be said for MacArthur.

To say that MacArthut can fetch a similar return IS asinine.

At the end of the day, it's a possibility only for those who are foolish enough to believe it.
I don't know why people believe Mac cannot repeat what he did this season. He was never given a good chance during his career until he came to Toronto. He was always playing 3rd line or with mediocre team mates.

If MacArthur put up the same numbers on a different team instead I bet people would be considering him having more value than a top 10 pick

Seriously though, if Grabovski and Kulemin raised their point totals this year and are worth at least a 1st rounder, why can't MacArthur be worth a 1st? He did put up the most amount of points out of them all.

He is a good player and should be continuing to improve if we keep him. But with the logjam we have on the wing he is the odd man out. And Kadri plays a similar style game

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06-15-2011, 09:59 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
My point is a team could simply tender him an offer if contract negotiations aren't moving forward with the Leafs. A team could offer the max salary that is equivelant to a second round pick (likely his worth salary wise) hence if he is worth a 2nd round pick if tendered another contract as an RFA, why would a team trade a 1st round pick?
Ok, I get what you are saying. But what is the amount of $ worth a 2nd pick. I thought it was under 2 million ?

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06-15-2011, 10:02 PM
  #60
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
Ok, I get what you are saying. But what is the amount of $ worth a 2nd pick. I thought it was under 2 million ?
I don't recall, IMO I believe FMV for Mac is 3 mil or just under, and I believe that is the equivelant of a second round pick if tendered an offer sheet. Not sure though.

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06-15-2011, 10:04 PM
  #61
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Macarthur is more proven than those 1st rounders. He also will make more of an impact on a team than any of the free agents, aside from Richards, Laich and maybe 1 or 2 others.
He also will not likely cost as much as Laich. He may not do quite as much in his overall game, but he is a cheaper option on the wing for teams that are tight to the cap. Macarthur IS worth a 1st, for any sane GM picking between 15-30.
Yes, MacArthur is more proven than an unused 1st round pick. However, that does not mean that his "value" is worth that of a 15th-30th pick.

What makes you think that MacArthur would make a significant impact if he were to be traded elsewhere? If history is any kind of a predictor of his future, then it would seem to indicate that MacArthur will suck majorly if he leaves the Leafs.

With that in mind, why would any sane GM take that risk when they can probably get a prospect of similar or better talent and upside?

Pointless.

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06-15-2011, 10:34 PM
  #62
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Originally Posted by Phion Keneuf View Post
I don't know why people believe Mac cannot repeat what he did this season. He was never given a good chance during his career until he came to Toronto. He was always playing 3rd line or with mediocre team mates.

If MacArthur put up the same numbers on a different team instead I bet people would be considering him having more value than a top 10 pick

Seriously though, if Grabovski and Kulemin raised their point totals this year and are worth at least a 1st rounder, why can't MacArthur be worth a 1st? He did put up the most amount of points out of them all.

He is a good player and should be continuing to improve if we keep him. But with the logjam we have on the wing he is the odd man out. And Kadri plays a similar style game
Don't get me wrong here. I actually DO like MacArthur and would like to see him re-signed to a reasonable contract. I just don't believe that he has done enough in his NHL career to warrant getting a 1st round pick in return, should he be traded.

I believe that, if he remains a Leaf, MacArthur can duplicate his efforts as well as help Kulemin and Grabovski duplicate theirs. I do not believe, however, that if he gets traded, he will perform as well as he did this past season with the Leafs.

Some players play well on only one team and, if traded from that team, flop rather badly until they can return to the team where they had success. MacArthur seems to be that kind of player. Erik Cole is a prime example of this phenomenon. He had success in Carolina, got traded to Edmonton as a result of that success, flopped badly, and then found his way back to Carolina ehere he's had a bit more success.

Therefore, I do not believe that MacArthur is worth a 1st round pick, regardless of the range it would fall into.

He hasn't proven enough yet, and quite frankly, neither have Kulemin and Grabovski.

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Old
06-16-2011, 12:36 AM
  #63
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thanks!

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06-16-2011, 01:21 AM
  #64
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Burke has no problem trading away prospects that aren't necessarily in his blueprint for the future team. He's traded prospects like Jimmy Hayes, diDomenico, Tlusty, etc...

I could see Burke moving one of the firsts, the 2nd, and considering he just signed Tyler Brenner and Mark Owuya in the offseason, I can see him parting with:

- D'Amigo
- Nicholls
- Scrivens

... if it gets him high enough in the draft where he wants to be. I doubt he has a serious enough asset to move into the top 10, so Burke likely targets guys like McNeill, Scheifele, and JT Miller.

I don't think Toronto will be making a selection with next years Bruins pick either- it is an extra chip in his bag to barter with. No way Burke hangs onto that pick for that long. It is gone this summer IMO.

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06-16-2011, 01:51 AM
  #65
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details on interview:

Burke is not going to sign a cap circumvention contracts so don't expect Richards to 6+ year contracts. There won't be significant drop off to lower the cap hit. He'll have to think about it for a young player.
-no updates on Schenn, Mac (tries to keep it quiet) The Leafs will take it to arbitration if it goes that far (including Bozak) and its within the players rights. He's not going to force Mac to take the cheap contract. Having hard time paying a guy who had one good year.
-too early to say on the Crabb, Boyce, Brent
-impressed with Reimer and his agent. Allaire said he would be a starting goaltender in the NHL when he played in ECHL. Betting on this guy is real.
-Scriven's played well, will resign him.
-talked about moving up but also moving down with the 25 pick.


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Old
06-16-2011, 09:01 AM
  #66
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I especially liked the part where he said a 10yr contract is not out of the question for a 20ish yr old player

I'm sure Don Meehan heard that loud and clear

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06-16-2011, 09:13 AM
  #67
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This is just a side note but...

I know that Burke gets ripped a lot (it's part of the job) but as a fan of the sport, he is great to listen to when talking about the process of contracts, trades, draft, all that stuff. I wish more GMs got the mic time that he does.

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06-16-2011, 10:29 AM
  #68
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I especially liked the part where he said a 10yr contract is not out of the question for a 20ish yr old playerI'm sure Don Meehan heard that loud and clear
Burke said that? Would love to see him sign Schenn for 10 years, 3.8- maybe 4 per and he would still be 30 or just turning 31. Wouldn't be suprised if that were the case especially with the secrecy behing his RFA signings.

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06-16-2011, 11:21 AM
  #69
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Burke said that? Would love to see him sign Schenn for 10 years, 3.8- maybe 4 per and he would still be 30 or just turning 31. Wouldn't be suprised if that were the case especially with the secrecy behing his RFA signings.
he wasn't necessarily talking about Luke

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06-16-2011, 11:35 AM
  #70
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I think Burke should try bundling a few second rounders – Boston's 2012 and our 2011, perhaps – for another first this year. Even if it's in the 15-29 range, we get three first rounders to either use as bargaining chips or to stock our prospect cupboards. Good idea? Possible?

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06-17-2011, 01:08 AM
  #71
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Don't get me wrong here. I actually DO like MacArthur and would like to see him re-signed to a reasonable contract. I just don't believe that he has done enough in his NHL career to warrant getting a 1st round pick in return, should he be traded.

I believe that, if he remains a Leaf, MacArthur can duplicate his efforts as well as help Kulemin and Grabovski duplicate theirs. I do not believe, however, that if he gets traded, he will perform as well as he did this past season with the Leafs.

Some players play well on only one team and, if traded from that team, flop rather badly until they can return to the team where they had success. MacArthur seems to be that kind of player. Erik Cole is a prime example of this phenomenon. He had success in Carolina, got traded to Edmonton as a result of that success, flopped badly, and then found his way back to Carolina ehere he's had a bit more success.

Therefore, I do not believe that MacArthur is worth a 1st round pick, regardless of the range it would fall into.

He hasn't proven enough yet, and quite frankly, neither have Kulemin and Grabovski.

Well I sure am glad that's your opinion and not anybody importants.

To suggest Mac, Kuli and Grabo arent worth a first round pick REGARDLESS OF WHERE IT FALLS might very well be the most ignorant statement I have read on HF boards. To say neither of them have proven anything/enough yet is foolish. Just staying in an NHL lineup on a regular basis all improving each year holds (I ASSURE YOU) more value to pretty much any GM that is holding a late first round pick. There is NO garauntee that prospects will even suit up in 1 single NHL game while all 3 of those guys have proven they can lace them up and produce with the best of them. Even if only for a couple of years

Sorry but your evaulation of Roster players or draft picks is WAAAY OFF

Further more Burke would NEVER trade either of them for a pick except maybe mac if he can't get him signed. Even then if it was late in the first I would bet it's a pick plus.


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06-17-2011, 08:22 AM
  #72
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Originally Posted by New Liskeard View Post
Burke said that? Would love to see him sign Schenn for 10 years, 3.8- maybe 4 per and he would still be 30 or just turning 31. Wouldn't be suprised if that were the case especially with the secrecy behing his RFA signings.
nah, if it were a 10 year contract, Schenn would get around 3.25 - 3.5

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Old
06-20-2011, 11:17 AM
  #73
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Burke on NOW @ TSN 1050

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