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10-28-2011, 01:07 PM
  #826
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Originally Posted by Monaco88 View Post
Bouwmeester is still top pairing D in most NHL club.

Boumeester for Gomez and 1ST
Two games ago we were in fifteen, and now suddenly you want to trade our first? We aren't Toronto.

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10-28-2011, 01:09 PM
  #827
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They are not on the same boat, Bouwmeester is still a very usefull 1st paring d-men, Gomez doesn't fit anywhere, he's not useful at all. Though i wouldn't throw a 1st in that deal.
This. The only comparison is that both are overpaid. Bouwmeester however still is a good player and he's relatively young (just turned 28).

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10-28-2011, 02:17 PM
  #828
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IMHO JBo is not overpaid, given how many minutes he plays, and where the cap is now. And the term of his contract takes him through the ages of 28 to 30, which is pretty much as team friendly as you can ask for.

Anyway, I think it's a hypothetical argument. I don't expect the shy, western Canadian would waive his NTC to come to Montreal.

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10-28-2011, 02:30 PM
  #829
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
Is it Bouwmeester's fault that he never played on a contender?
Well, its not his fault, but he was and is a key-player, paid like one, on his teams, as far as i know.
You dont have to be a contender to be able to reach the PO. Florida did own the 1st overall pick in two consecutive years, and when Bouwmeester was there, i think that they had the potential to do it, at least once.

Calgary did not play in PO for the first time in 5 years once he signed there. Obviously, its not his fault, but still, the fact that his teams, which are mediocre/average cant find a way to be part of the post-season, even at junior level, is quite odd.

His resume and the fact that he was drafted this high, with such a potential is going to be enough to be critisized, and add the "supposed" lack of fire and intensity, well...i dont think its a good fit, even if the player is a good one.

Anyway, we dont have the assets to do such a move without losing something important.

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10-28-2011, 02:35 PM
  #830
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
IMHO JBo is not overpaid, given how many minutes he plays, and where the cap is now. And the term of his contract takes him through the ages of 28 to 30, which is pretty much as team friendly as you can ask for.

Anyway, I think it's a hypothetical argument. I don't expect the shy, western Canadian would waive his NTC to come to Montreal.
Also, CGY just traded away Regehr, so not sure why they would also try to move JBO, which would dismantle their defence completely.

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Old
10-28-2011, 02:41 PM
  #831
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post
This. The only comparison is that both are overpaid. Bouwmeester however still is a good player and he's relatively young (just turned 28).
His offensive output disagrees.

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10-28-2011, 02:43 PM
  #832
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His offensive output disagrees.
You need offensive numbers to be considered good nowadays? Are you one of those guys who votes Mike Green for Norris?

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10-28-2011, 02:43 PM
  #833
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J-Bo is a good mobile defensive defenseman at this point. His whole offensive has dropped for whatever reason. I wouldn't want 6+ million for a defensive D-man. I also doubt Calgary would swap him for gomez, makes no sense for them.

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10-28-2011, 02:50 PM
  #834
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You need offensive numbers to be considered good nowadays? Are you one of those guys who votes Mike Green for Norris?
Not at all. In fact, I have considerable respect for d-men who can actually play their position (ie not Bergeron, Green, Liles).

I just don't think his offensive game (combined with his salary) is at the point where I'd consider him a good player today, considering the role he's expected to fulfill (Calgary didn't give him $6.6 million to play good defense and put up mediocre offensive numbers).

Quote:
Originally Posted by overlords View Post
You need offensive numbers to be considered good nowadays? Are you one of those guys who votes Mike Green for Norris?
And that's not to say overpaid = bad player, but in JBo's case, his game has declined to the point where I wouldn't give up assets like a 1st rounder to get him.

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10-28-2011, 02:55 PM
  #835
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Not at all. In fact, I have considerable respect for d-men who can actually play their position (ie not Bergeron, Green, Liles).

I just don't think his offensive game (combined with his salary) is at the point where I'd consider him a good player today, considering the role he's expected to fulfill (Calgary didn't give him $6.6 million to play good defense and put up mediocre offensive numbers).



And that's not to say overpaid = bad player, but in JBo's case, his game has declined to the point where I wouldn't give up assets like a 1st rounder to get him.
Understood, and I agree. Just that the post I quoted didn't elaborate like you did here, and all you said was that he wasn't good. Taking into account cap hit and offensive output, I agree, I would not give up a 1st rounder for him, especially not this year.

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10-28-2011, 03:53 PM
  #836
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Before he joined the Flames, he was 40 pts Dman who was a rock defensively. Anyone else think the "Flames" part might br the problem?

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10-28-2011, 04:31 PM
  #837
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Championships are won with defense. JayBo is an excellent defenseman.

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Old
10-28-2011, 04:37 PM
  #838
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Originally Posted by bcv View Post
Before he joined the Flames, he was 40 pts Dman who was a rock defensively. Anyone else think the "Flames" part might br the problem?
I live in Calgary, and I can tell you this. He is pretty poor offensively and defensively. I would compare his D skills to Subban who still needs lots of seasoning, and his offense skills, well you guys all know the story. He has had every opportunity to rack up points with the flames. Top minutes, on the first PP unit, always allowed to pinch, the coach seems to trust him to do so.

I honestly think he has just lost his way. It's something mentally for sure. He still skates like the wind and still has the skill set like he did in Florida. Maybe a change of scenery is what he needs?..I think it's 50/50 that he improves or not, so on that note I would stay the hell away unless it was for Gomez and a 3rd or 4th rounder max.

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Old
10-28-2011, 04:39 PM
  #839
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Championships are won with defense. JayBo is an excellent defenseman.
He has no passion and heart lately..You must be thinking when he actually cared when he played for Florida

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10-28-2011, 04:39 PM
  #840
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Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
I live in Calgary, and I can tell you this. He is pretty poor offensively and defensively. I would compare his D skills to Subban who still needs lots of seasoning, and his offense skills, well you guys all know the story. He has had every opportunity to rack up points with the flames. Top minutes, on the first PP unit, always allowed to pinch, the coach seems to trust him to do so.

I honestly think he has just lost his way. It's something mentally for sure. He still skates like the wind and still has the skill set like he did in Florida. Maybe a change of scenery is what he needs?..I think it's 50/50 that he improves or not, so on that note I would stay the hell away unless it was for Gomez and a 3rd or 4th rounder max.
He hasn't missed a game in the past 6 seasons. That is a luxury to this team.

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10-28-2011, 04:42 PM
  #841
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Originally Posted by le_sean View Post
He hasn't missed a game in the past 6 seasons. That is a luxury to this team.
uh ok? lol whas there supposed to be a ?. So if I was a minus every yr and an average player who made almost 7 mil I would be an asset because I am an ironman?..Thanks for the compliment

Maybe the reason why he hasn't been injured in the last 6 years is because he never gets into the dirty spots, and never clears the front of the net and battles. I hardly know anyone in Calgary who think he's an above average dman

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10-28-2011, 04:46 PM
  #842
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uh ok? lol whas there supposed to be a ?. So if I was a minus every yr and an average player who made almost 7 mil I would be an asset because I am an ironman?..Thanks for the compliment

Maybe the reason why he hasn't been injured in the last 6 years is because he never gets into the dirty spots, and never clears the front of the net and battles. I hardly know anyone in Calgary who think he's an above average dman
He's played 25+ mins a night his entire career. Obviously he's doing something right and someone smarter than us when it comes to hockey thinks he's good.

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Old
10-28-2011, 04:54 PM
  #843
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He's played 25+ mins a night his entire career. Obviously he's doing something right and someone smarter than us when it comes to hockey thinks he's good.
He's playing 25 plus mins a game because he makes a boat load of money, and he's on a pretty weak team defensively. I know they have been pretty decent this yr as a whole on D but Jay is steadily turning into gomez 2.0 and nobody seems to care about that. There are better dmen out there for far far less. Come on think about it. No offense but Jay is turning into a bum

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10-28-2011, 05:17 PM
  #844
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Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
He's playing 25 plus mins a game because he makes a boat load of money, and he's on a pretty weak team defensively. I know they have been pretty decent this yr as a whole on D but Jay is steadily turning into gomez 2.0 and nobody seems to care about that. There are better dmen out there for far far less. Come on think about it. No offense but Jay is turning into a bum
He got the most icetime total in the NHL in the last 5 years. He would be the MTL best D right now. Bouwmeester is a rock defensively and they use him on the second wave on the PP not on the First for the last 2 years........

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10-28-2011, 05:20 PM
  #845
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Phaneuf is rebounding nicely in Toronto, perhaps JBo could do the same here? I def take him for Gomez though. We'd probably have to include one of Diaz/Weber as well...


Diaz and Gomez for JBo? Worth the risk IMO.

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Old
10-28-2011, 05:22 PM
  #846
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Originally Posted by Monaco88 View Post
He got the most icetime total in the NHL in the last 5 years. He would be the MTL best D right now. Bouwmeester is a rock defensively and they use him on the second wave on the PP not on the First for the last 2 years........
JB is scott gomez 2.0. why not get someone cheaper and just as solid on defense if not better?..The kid can't score like he did in florida. get over it guys. Why do we always want the players that are on the decline? WOW

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10-28-2011, 05:28 PM
  #847
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Not too many D-Men out there that make $4.5 million plus and don't put up offensive numbers. other than Komisarek off course

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Old
10-28-2011, 05:32 PM
  #848
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Originally Posted by AntonCH View Post
Not too many D-Men out there that make $4.5 million plus and don't put up offensive numbers. other than Komisarek off course
Dont forget Jay Bouwmeester
2009-10 Calgary Flames NHL 82 3 26 29 48 -4
2010-11 Calgary Flames NHL 82 4 20 24 44 -2
2011-12 Calgary Flames NHL 8 1 2 3 0 -1

Very Impressive

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10-28-2011, 05:41 PM
  #849
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Originally Posted by Jmac1160 View Post
Dont forget Jay Bouwmeester
2009-10 Calgary Flames NHL 82 3 26 29 48 -4
2010-11 Calgary Flames NHL 82 4 20 24 44 -2
2011-12 Calgary Flames NHL 8 1 2 3 0 -1

Very Impressive
Bouwmeester and Gomez are not even remotely comparable. A 25 minute a night dman is way more valuable than Gomez at this point. There is no comparison, put down the pipe.

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Old
10-28-2011, 05:46 PM
  #850
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Originally Posted by habsjunkie2 View Post
Bouwmeester and Gomez are not even remotely comparable. A 25 minute a night dman is way more valuable than Gomez at this point. There is no comparison, put down the pipe.
sure there is a comparison. They are both a waste of money, they underachieve, and the fact that JB plays so many minutes with so little points is pathetic, just like Gomez. You're reading too far into it. Just because he plays top minutes does not make him a 7 million dollar investment. Its a joke. There are lots of cheaper dmen out there who are far better defensively and can score just as much or almost as many points as JB.

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