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Old
06-17-2011, 12:28 PM
  #26
Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
Bogo played very good in his first season. Calvert to.. Do you know how he will be in his second? I like Calvy he plays my favourite style what I missed but IMO he is overrated of us. Many of his goals was lucky do you hink similar goals he can score alwyas in his career? Plus we have Atkinson who will be better than Calvy and he plays similar style.

I did not think about Filly when I wrote my last commnt. Really.

On the second hand we need an experience and leadership to the defense and I am afraid but Bogo is not this type now. I do not doubt he will be but we need this type of player now. Thats why Bogo is not prefering d-man for me.
I don't expect him to keep up that scoring pace for his second season, but long-term he's likely to be a much better player.

And I still hesitate to endorse Atkinson until I see his NHL performance. Yeah, I loved his AHL work, but Calvert's AHL work was just about as impressive.

(Besides, Calvert plays LW and Atkinson plays RW. Why not keep 'em both? )

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Old
06-17-2011, 01:03 PM
  #27
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I'm interested in Bogosian provided the Jackets also bring in a more experienced two-way top pairing dman.

I would do either of the following:

Bogosian for 8th overall

or

Bogosian for Voracek

There is obvious risk involved but as has been mentioned, Bogoisan has all the tools -- he just hasn't figured out how to put them all to work yet (which is not uncommon for a young dman). I love home run possibiliy and at worst he will be a top 5 dman.

Combine him with a Pitkanen/Ehrhoff UFA signing and now we are talkin defensive overhaul.

Pitkanen Tyutin
Bogosian Hejda
Methot Clitsome
Russell

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Old
06-17-2011, 01:26 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
You must really be high on him if you would consider Voracek instead.
Careful, now. One singular poster suggested Voracek instead of the original offer, which was Calvert plus the 8th overall. That's kinda different from Voracek instead of Calvert.

Personally, I wouldn't trade either the 8th or Voracek even-up for Bogosian.

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Old
06-17-2011, 01:30 PM
  #29
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Calvert should be a nice player in the NHL for a while. Let's not get carried away though....He's likely a top 9 player with only spot duty in the top 6. Excellent speed and work ethic but the game caught him quickly last year. 0 goals and 6 points in his last 21 games worried me some. Granted the kid was a 20/21 year old but he's not the next coming. He's not destinited to be a top line player and he isn't "unique" like a St. Louis....

Nice player and decent value right now but Voracek he is not. Jake's value and potential is much higher than Calvert. Let's not kid ourselves. He put up a nice 1/2 year let's hope it continues with some consistency. For me....insert Atkinson and you have the same type of player. another good one but not unique....not yet anyway.

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Old
06-17-2011, 01:46 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Double-Shift Lassé View Post
Careful, now. One singular poster suggested Voracek instead of the original offer, which was Calvert plus the 8th overall. That's kinda different from Voracek instead of Calvert.

Personally, I wouldn't trade either the 8th or Voracek even-up for Bogosian.
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I understand the Voracek comment was not to add him instead of Calvert. It would have just been Voracek straight up for Bogo.

I just thought it said a lot for how much someone must love Calvert, if the thought of losing him is worse to them than losing Voracek.

Cool?

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Old
06-17-2011, 01:53 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Sorry, I should have been more clear. I understand the Voracek comment was not to add him instead of Calvert. It would have just been Voracek straight up for Bogo.

I just thought it said a lot for how much someone must love Calvert, if the thought of losing him is worse to them than losing Voracek.

Cool?
Yeah I didn't mean to imply a smack-down.

Matty C is highly-regarded and played above expectations. Jake is coming off a year that disappointed .

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Old
06-17-2011, 02:04 PM
  #32
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I would trade the 8th overall for Bogosian provided we couldn't package it for a better player like Carter or Burns.

I think, at best, a defenseman taken in this year's draft at #8 will be lateral with Bogosian given 2 years of NHL play straight out of the draft.

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Old
06-17-2011, 02:19 PM
  #33
JF Omalycat
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I love Calvert, but "won't you take Voracek instead?"

Seriously, what?

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Old
06-17-2011, 02:23 PM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
I think, at best, a defenseman taken in this year's draft at #8 will be lateral with Bogosian given 2 years of NHL play straight out of the draft.
I think that this is probably essentially it in a nutshell. The guy at 8 is most likely a Bogosian like talent. The trade would be essentially if CBJ wanted to speed up the development cycle as Bogosian has actually 3 years of NHL experience at this point.

This is why most people think there would be a + on the CBJ side. As much as Bogo might still carry some risk to not developing to his full potential, at worst he is a solid second pairing D man because he is already doing that at 20. There is a greater risk that the guy at 8 busts than Bogo at this point (IMO).

Saying that I can see the point from CBJ fans about using the 8th, or Voracek, or whatever to get maybe a bigger piece to the puzzle than Bogo. I base this on the idea that CBJ is in a win now mode (at least I think the GM is in win now mode to keep his job?).

Anyway, I just enjoy the discussion. Not trying to start any trade flamming or anything.

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Old
06-17-2011, 02:36 PM
  #35
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Calvert is very close to untouchable in CBJ land...

Voracek for Bogosian is very interesting... Jakub is my favorite player, but he has disappointed... I love Zach too...

How do these sound? Not enough on the CBJ Side?

2nd + Goloubef
2nd + Filatov
Voracek straight up (:/)
3rd + Savard
1st for Bogs +

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Old
06-17-2011, 03:03 PM
  #36
mt-svk
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MephistoIV View Post
Calvert is very close to untouchable in CBJ land...

Voracek for Bogosian is very interesting... Jakub is my favorite player, but he has disappointed... I love Zach too...

How do these sound? Not enough on the CBJ Side?

2nd + Goloubef
2nd + Filatov
Voracek straight up (:/)
3rd + Savard
1st for Bogs +
First we say about potnetial or achievments? If about achievments we cannot trade him for anything for it. He played as the secound round player last two seasons. If about potential so all these pla&ers have similar or better potential. So, not.

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Old
06-17-2011, 03:08 PM
  #37
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What are CBJ fans thoughts on Kubalik?

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Old
06-17-2011, 03:14 PM
  #38
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.... done. That said.. I'm not a Bogosian fan.. so...

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Old
06-17-2011, 03:16 PM
  #39
Viqsi
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
What are CBJ fans thoughts on Kubalik?
You may have noticed, in my description of Calvert, how in the AHL he was a "ROTY candidate alongside Kubalik". We're almost as high on him, only he hasn't done quite as much on the NHL level yet as Calvert. Folks were already calling him "our own Tomas Holmstrom" during the preseason, mostly because of his immortal broken-English quote: "Coach told me stay in front of the net". He did, and he did quite well.

We'd like to keep him too.

EDIT: Here's the Rotoworld-provided summary of the preseason game that led to that quote:
Quote:
Blue Jackets' winger Tomas Kubalik had a hat trick in his preseason game against the Pittsburgh Penguins. All three goals came on re-directions at the top of the crease. Kubalik, who was the 135th pick in the 2008 Entry Draft has an outside shot of making the team. He did perform when he came over from the Czech Republic to play in the QMJHL. He had 75 points last season including 33 goals. He played on a line with Antoine Vermette and Kristian Huselius. "Coach told me stay in front of the net and try to tip in, and (take) passes in front," Kubalik said. "I stay, they pass, I score. . . . I feel very good, but maybe better when we win."
(We lost that preseason game 5-4. Garon didn't have a good night.)


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Old
06-17-2011, 03:21 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
What are CBJ fans thoughts on Kubalik?
I am not Kubalík fan but his style is something what our team needs so I would not like to lost him.

I like Evander Kane but I know he is untouchable for Winnipeg.

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Old
06-17-2011, 03:29 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by mt-svk View Post
First we say about potnetial or achievments? If about achievments we cannot trade him for anything for it. He played as the secound round player last two seasons. If about potential so all these pla&ers have similar or better potential. So, not.
Can't say I agree with you mt-svk. Maybe Bogo didn't blow the doors off, but he has been playing as a solid 2nd pairing D man in the NHL.

Neither Goloubef nor Savard have played a game in the NHL.
Filatov is also full of potential but has played 44 games in the NHL and it looked like he sustained a major concussion.

I'm not saying these players are not valuable, but they have not proven as much as Bogosian has already, and do not have the ceiling that he has.

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Old
06-17-2011, 03:30 PM
  #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Viqsi View Post
You may have noticed, in my description of Calvert, how in the AHL he was a "ROTY candidate alongside Kubalik". We're almost as high on him, only he hasn't done quite as much on the NHL level yet as Calvert. Folks were already calling him "our own Tomas Holmstrom" during the preseason, mostly because of his immortal broken-English quote: "Coach told me stay in front of the net". He did, and he did quite well.

We'd like to keep him too.

EDIT: Here's the Rotoworld-provided summary of the preseason game that led to that quote:

(We lost that preseason game 5-4. Garon didn't have a good night.)
Thanks. I didn't know much about him other than his summary on HF. Looks like a pretty good pickup for the 5th round.

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Old
06-17-2011, 03:46 PM
  #43
mt-svk
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Can't say I agree with you mt-svk. Maybe Bogo didn't blow the doors off, but he has been playing as a solid 2nd pairing D man in the NHL.

Neither Goloubef nor Savard have played a game in the NHL.
Filatov is also full of potential but has played 44 games in the NHL and it looked like he sustained a major concussion.

I'm not saying these players are not valuable, but they have not proven as much as Bogosian has already, and do not have the ceiling that he has.
I do not doubt about his great potential he will be really a great player but 1st round pick d-men are planning as 1st pairing d-men, or maybe as 2nd pairing. But Bogo played bad in defensive and his offensive was not extra what is pity because he has a very good hockey sense and shoot. He would play in the thirdpair in better team. And he could be happy for it.

To Filatov it was his first season with so many injuries: groin still in C-bus, concussion and neck in Falcons. So I hope it is the end of his injuries...

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Old
06-17-2011, 03:56 PM
  #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huffer View Post
Thanks. I didn't know much about him other than his summary on HF. Looks like a pretty good pickup for the 5th round.
The later rounds have looked surprisingly productive for us ever since Howson took over - 2008 was particularly awesome, as that got us Calvert and Kubalik in the fifth round and Atkinson in the sixth. Savard came a little later (4th 2009). There's a few other examples.

It helps make up for the fact that our second round drafting appears to continue to be under a heavy curse.

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Old
06-17-2011, 06:41 PM
  #45
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It's hard to not have some level of bias towards your own teams prospects....Most of us have a little homer in us

Trying to be fair, players like Calvert, Atkinson, Kubalik, Savard, Corbiel, Madaisky, Archibald....all later round picks in the past few drafts and all appear to show a lot of promise for an actual NHL future. Individually one could say "big deal" but the fact they are all with the same organization gives me, personally, some hope that our ability to find good players through the draft after the early rounds is not too shabby. They are all assets that I think most NHL teams would appreciate having on their depth charts

If we can turn them into even better help at the NHL level now that would be a blessing.

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Old
06-17-2011, 09:55 PM
  #46
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So what do you Winnipeg/Atlanta fans think is a fair deal then?

No trading of Calvert or Kubalik preferably... but Voracek is def available.

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Old
06-17-2011, 10:32 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MephistoIV View Post
So what do you Winnipeg/Atlanta fans think is a fair deal then?

No trading of Calvert or Kubalik preferably... but Voracek is def available.
Would you trade Voracek to bring Klesla back?

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06-17-2011, 10:57 PM
  #48
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Bogosian is not comprable to klesla at all....

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Old
06-17-2011, 10:58 PM
  #49
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And I wasn't saying I thought Jake for Bogs was a fair deal... I was just saying he is available

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Old
06-17-2011, 11:02 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by MephistoIV View Post
So what do you Winnipeg/Atlanta fans think is a fair deal then?

No trading of Calvert or Kubalik preferably... but Voracek is def available.
It's tough to say, that's probably why when people try to debate value it get's out of hand.

I'm not really too high on trading Bogo. The only thing that has me even slightly on board with it would be if the rumor that his meeting with TNSE management didn't go well was true.

The idea of Bogo and Voracek make sense from a hockey standpoint. I will leave the extra bits and pieces to the pros. My own thought is that I think Bogo is worth a bit more than Voracek at this point, but I don't think it's worth arguing over.

My preference if there was interest from both parties for a deal might actually be the 8th plus a prospect. That obviously depends on what the prospect is. This is just my opinion so please don't get defensive and tell me Bogo is not worth the 8th or whatnot. I'm just saying what I think would be acceptable to WPG, while also providing value to CBJ.

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