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Who does Timmins pick at 17?

View Poll Results: Who do Habs draft at 17????
JT Miller 37 10.36%
J Oleksiak 50 14.01%
Mark Mcneill 46 12.89%
Rocco Grimaldi 28 7.84%
J Brodin 2 0.56%
Matt Puempel 24 6.72%
Ty Rattie 3 0.84%
Zach Phillips 31 8.68%
Oscar Klefbom 7 1.96%
Mark Schiefele 57 15.97%
Joe Morrow 8 2.24%
Nathan Beaulieu 26 7.28%
Boone Jenner 11 3.08%
Niklas Jensen 19 5.32%
A Khokhlachev 8 2.24%
Voters: 357. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-19-2011, 07:30 PM
  #176
Monctonscout
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Originally Posted by JGRB View Post
Chara also puts up 45+ points per year, so he does have some offensive skill there. I doubt Tinordi ever gets close to that all. His offensive contributions will probably be more in line with what Komisarek put up with Markov, at best.

So yeah, he could be a #2-3 in the same sense that Komisarek was with Markov except with Subban. We've all seen Komisarek's true colours away from an elite defense partner.
2/3 of those points are off his slapshot. Tinordi already skates better than Chara.

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Old
06-19-2011, 07:37 PM
  #177
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2/3 of those points are off his slapshot. Tinordi already skates better than Chara.
I'm aware of his skating attributes, he also doesn't move the puck as well as Chara or have Chara's shot. One is a Top 3 defenseman in the NHL, the other is not even a Top 3 defenseman in the OHL... I hate when people compare the two, outside of size there isn't much of their game that is comparable.

2/3 of the points Tinordi puts up will be the result of feeding Subban a pass.

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Old
06-19-2011, 07:49 PM
  #178
Em Ancien
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Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
2/3 of those points are off his slapshot. Tinordi already skates better than Chara.
Unlike Chara, he handles the puck like a grenade.

Get this through your head : as it is, Tinordi's offensive upside is between marginal and absolute trash.

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Old
06-19-2011, 08:02 PM
  #179
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Originally Posted by Em Ancien View Post
Unlike Chara, he handles the puck like a grenade.

Get this through your head : as it is, Tinordi's offensive upside is between marginal and absolute trash.
Im not going to Compare Jarred with Chara at all so don't take this the wrong way. But How did Chara handle the puck when he was 18? He didn't have a season over 30 points until 2002-2003 season. Your comparing someones puck skills in their Prime to a kid still growing into his body.

The early reports on Chara in junior was that he looked like a baby Giraffe on skates trying to learn how to use his body still. Patience people. It will do you a lot of good.

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Old
06-19-2011, 08:06 PM
  #180
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Originally Posted by TheBuriedHab View Post
Im not going to Compare Jarred with Chara at all so don't take this the wrong way. But How did Chara handle the puck when he was 18? He didn't have a season over 30 points until 2002-2003 season. Your comparing someones puck skills in their Prime to a kid still growing into his body.

The early reports on Chara in junior was that he looked like a baby Giraffe on skates trying to learn how to use his body still. Patience people. It will do you a lot of good.
I'll concede that.

I still don't think he'll ever have that type of offensive output, if he does, then we will be winning some cups for sure in the future with he and Subban holding down the fort.

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Old
06-19-2011, 08:46 PM
  #181
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Tinordi was drafted to become a #2-3 guy. Just because he doesn't have high end skill doesn't mean he can't be a big minute guy, see Chara.
Tinordi never projected as a #2-3 guy. At most a defensive 2nd pairing dman and that was the best case scenario. (However predictions have been wrong before). Most comments were refering to him as a future third pairing dman with an edge and penalty killing specialist.

I probably was one of the first poster on this board to predict that Tinordi would be the Habs draft pick back in december 2009. Never did I hear before the 2010 draft (except for the last month before the draft when everybody goes crazy with every prospects) that he would become a first pairing dman. Never. I do not think this prediction should change after his average first season in the OHL.

As for Connor Murphy, i would like to know more about him. See videos, read some draft reports. I am not ready to write him off as a first round pick.

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Old
06-19-2011, 08:54 PM
  #182
Grant McCagg
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Originally Posted by Top Corner2 View Post
Connor Murphy is definitely a good prospect & I also think he will be a 1st rounder. He reminds me of Ryan Johanssen last year in terms of body type and in the way that he looks like he hasn't quite grown into his body yet. He is tall & lanky, has good skills but still seems a bit akward....kind of like the Staal kids. I think he will solidify into a very good D-man.

I'm liking the D group more than the forward group (in the 10-20 range) and I have a feeling the habs will draft a d-man if the forwards they want are gone....the question is who are the forwards they want???

My gut tells me JT Miller is one of them.....but I think if Klefbom is also there Trevor has a hard time choosing....(not really because the choice will have already been made....but it will have been a tough one)
I can put your gut at ease...I don't think the Habs are interested in drafting JT Miller at 17th. :-)

Here is McKeen's top 30 just to give you an idea of some of the guys who may be in play for the Habs...McKeen's is printing the top 100 on the website later this evening, but I figured I'd give fellow Hab fans an early look at McKeen's top 30.

1 Nugent-Hopkins
Larsson
Huberdeau
Hamilton
Landeskog
Couturier
R. Murphy
Strome
Zibanejad
Grimaldi


11 Brodin
Beaulieu
Siemens
Scheifele
Klefbom
Bartschi
Jensen
Armia
Jenner
Morrow


21 Murphy
McNeill
Namestnikov
Oleksiak
Noesen
Biggs
Miller
Phillips
Puempel
Saad


I can answer a few questions about the list for an hour or so.

Just for a bit of background, for the past five years as McKeen's Director of Scouting I have been co-publishing McKeen's draft rankings along with McKeen's publisher Iain Morrell. During the 2008-09 and 2009-10 seasons I scouted part-time for the Montreal Canadiens. This year I also wrote the draft profiles for Bob McKenzie's top 60 rankings on TSN.ca The profiles should be up tomorrow night after his draft special, along with his top 60.


In addition to all of the scouting input we receive from all of the scouts at McKeen's, Iain and I scout a lot of games. We work hard at it, but don't get to see everybody ourselves, so we also rely on the opinions of some of the league's top-end amateur scouts, in addition to interviewing plenty of coaches, managers and players. We combine all of the info throughout the year, put all of the quotes, assessments and rankings of each player into one huge file and discern who we feel should be the top 100 prospects for the draft.

I'm pretty happy with this year's top 100. In the past we've done larger lists, but after the top 100 things are very unpredictable. Most teams only compile a list of 70-100 names as a rule... there will always be players on the team's top 100 left wherever they pick..you'd be surprised how much different teams' list can vary after the top 60. I'm confident that at least 95 of our players will be drafted, perhaps all 100. I'd also venture to guess that the majority if not all of our top 60 players will be selected by the end of the third round. Where McKeen's usually excels in its list is in the 30-90 range....most of the players we rank in that range end up being picked fairly close to where we ranked them.

Anyway...I'm here for an hour or so....

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Old
06-19-2011, 09:02 PM
  #183
Roulin
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
I can answer a few questions about the list for an hour or so.
Thanks for posting your list and taking the time!

14- Scheifele - a huge portion of his points were scored on the PP. Do you think he can take his ES scoring to the next level? Do you see him as a C or W in the pros?

17- Jensen - do you think his hockey sense and drive are good enough to take him beyond an Andrei Kostitsyn type career?

23- Namestnikov - in North America to stay?

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Old
06-19-2011, 09:08 PM
  #184
Gaston Gingras
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Hi Grant
between

Beaulieu
Scheifele
Jensen
Armia
McNeill
Oleksiak
Miller
Puempel


which one is your favorite player and why? Have you seem them play?
many thanks

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Old
06-19-2011, 09:09 PM
  #185
Grant McCagg
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Point taken, obviously if a defenceman is clearly the BPA, take him. If the decision is fuzzy, or involves trading up or down, I'd still tend towards taking a forward.

In 2001 Nashville drafted Dan Hamhuis, who went on to become a very good NHL'er. However, like most defencemen, in took some years. He gave the Preds a couple of productive seasons at slightly under market value, then left as a free agent. Drafted one spot after him was Ales Hemsky, who produced almost immediately after going pro, and helped the Oilers get to the finals in his third season. Having players who will be able to dramatically outperform their salary in those first 3 entry level years is key to building a contender, IMO.

I don't disagree that getting players who can play sooner is more improtant under the new SBA, but I honestly don't think teams will "penalize" a dman for perhaps taking a little longer to develop if they think he's the bpa in the first round. To be a defenceman picked in the first round, you are usually being projected by that team to be top three dman, at worst top four. That is such a precious commodity in the NHL. Look at these last playoffs....teams were losing dmen left and right...teams never seemingly have too much blueline depth.

The majority of scouts I know covet top four dman prospects...as the old saying goes, you build from the defence out.

Playing and excelling early can backfire sometimes as well. After their ELC many of these players end up seeking huge contract before they really deserve them, but the team allows it because they don't want to lose them to free agency at the end of their next contract, so they sign them to an overpriced long-term contract. How many playoff games has Edmonton won since Hemsky signed his second contract?

there's still nothing wrong with letting a big dman develop, bring him tot he NHL at 21 or 22, and sign him to a long term deal for his second contract just before he becomes a ufa. The first thing Trevor told me after the draft was that Tinordi may take several years to develop...just like his dad. but that it will be worth the wait.

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Old
06-19-2011, 09:12 PM
  #186
Em Ancien
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Originally Posted by TheBuriedHab View Post
Im not going to Compare Jarred with Chara at all so don't take this the wrong way. But How did Chara handle the puck when he was 18? He didn't have a season over 30 points until 2002-2003 season. Your comparing someones puck skills in their Prime to a kid still growing into his body.

The early reports on Chara in junior was that he looked like a baby Giraffe on skates trying to learn how to use his body still. Patience people. It will do you a lot of good.
Chara did significantly better in the W than Tinordi did in the O. Not to mention Chara was a third round pick.

NOT. A. ****ING. FIRST. ROUNDER.

I have no idea why anyone would pick a one-dimensional defensive defenseman in the first-round, let alone trade up for one.

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06-19-2011, 09:12 PM
  #187
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Thank you Grant for your input and your list!

About McNeill, I've read reports where they rave about his character and others where they say he lacks drive in his game or that he's not a guy you want in important situations, so it's kinda all over the place. What is McKeen's assessment on that?

Do you see Oleksiak going much higher than your list? Who else do you feel will be picked higher?

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06-19-2011, 09:17 PM
  #188
Grant McCagg
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Originally Posted by Roulin View Post
Thanks for posting your list and taking the time!

14- Scheifele - a huge portion of his points were scored on the PP. Do you think he can take his ES scoring to the next level? Do you see him as a C or W in the pros?

17- Jensen - do you think his hockey sense and drive are good enough to take him beyond an Andrei Kostitsyn type career?

23- Namestnikov - in North America to stay?
Great questions -

14 - Barrie had trouble scoring 5-on-5 bevause they were terrible. H had very little to play with...when he went to a team with some better players, namely the U-18 team, you saw how he excelled. His vision and smarts should serve him well at center.

17 - not too much wrong with Jensen's sense..he adapted pretty well to NA. He will need to learn to work harder...i agree with that, but if he does that he's going to be a helluva player. Saw him in Kingston in the playoffs in a very important Game three of the first round and he had a dominant performance...showed me everything I wanted to see form him, including hard backchecking. Two more years in NA and he could be quite a hockey player. Great shot, very big already and he never worked out before this season...

23 - Came here at 16 years of age...don't think he's here to find a wife for Russia. :-)
The KHL factor may drop him in the draft, but talent-wise he's top 15 in this draft....we already dropped him as far as I'm concerned. Could be a first or second line player.

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Old
06-19-2011, 09:20 PM
  #189
Grant McCagg
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Originally Posted by Gaston Gingras View Post
Hi Grant
between

Beaulieu
Scheifele
Jensen
Armia
McNeill
Oleksiak
Miller
Puempel


which one is your favorite player and why? Have you seem them play?
many thanks
The first two guys on your list are the best prospects I think, but it's not like there's a huge gap. I like Jenner second best out of that group BTW.....really think he'll be a Mike Richards type leader.

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06-19-2011, 09:21 PM
  #190
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Thanks!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Grant McCagg View Post
...and he never worked out before this season...
Wow, that's seems nuts at this level, after watching some of the combine videos...

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06-19-2011, 09:27 PM
  #191
Grant McCagg
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Originally Posted by parachutist View Post
Thank you Grant for your input and your list!

About McNeill, I've read reports where they rave about his character and others where they say he lacks drive in his game or that he's not a guy you want in important situations, so it's kinda all over the place. What is McKeen's assessment on that?

Do you see Oleksiak going much higher than your list? Who else do you feel will be picked higher?
Not a huge fan of McNeill's competitiveness, and for me that's an important quality to have if you're a top 20 pick...you have to be able to win puck battles. I personally ranked him lower than our list...... wouldn't pick him in the top 25 if I had a pick. Didn't score a goals at the U-18's either.

Oleksiak will probably go higher..big dmen often go higher than expected, like McIlrath last year or Boris Valabik, and the legendary Vlad Mihalik.

Not sure about Oleksiak's hockey sense......

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06-19-2011, 09:28 PM
  #192
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Hi Grant,

Do you think the Habs will trade down at the draft? If not, do you know who is number one on their list at #17?

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06-19-2011, 09:32 PM
  #193
Gaston Gingras
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Grant

What about Armia? What do you know about Him? Some will put him in the top 10 and some others will put him not even in the top 20.
tx for your time

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Old
06-19-2011, 09:33 PM
  #194
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Originally Posted by bcv View Post
Hi Grant,

Do you think the Habs will trade down at the draft? If not, do you know who is number one on their list at #17?
No and no.

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Old
06-19-2011, 09:34 PM
  #195
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Hey Grant, What are your Thoughts on Tyler Biggs? I've heard a range of reports on him and a lot of people question his hockey sense. Do you see him turning into a third liner or can he become a legitimate top 6 forward?

Thanks.

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06-19-2011, 09:35 PM
  #196
Grant McCagg
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Originally Posted by TheBuriedHab View Post
Hey Grant, What are your Thoughts on Tyler Biggs? I've heard a range of reports on him and a lot of people question his hockey sense. Do you see him turning into a third liner or can he become a legitimate top 6 forward?

Thanks.
Probably a third liner, but a tough one who will drive to the net and score some goals.

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Old
06-19-2011, 09:38 PM
  #197
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Is Matt Puempel being low on your list for health concerns or because he doesn't project well in the NHL?

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06-19-2011, 09:39 PM
  #198
Grant McCagg
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Originally Posted by Gaston Gingras View Post
Grant

What about Armia? What do you know about Him? Some will put him in the top 10 and some others will put him not even in the top 20.
tx for your time
Amia is a bit like McNeill - you like the size and skill but sometimes question the determination. Think he's a bit more skilled than McNeill though if he puts it all together.

Quote:
Originally Posted by parachutist View Post
Is Matt Puempel being low on your list for health concerns or because he doesn't project well in the NHL?

He's down some mainly because some other guys have risen while he didn't really get better this season. At the end of the day it is a fairly deep top 50 this draft..there will be some pretty good second rounders selected.

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06-19-2011, 09:48 PM
  #199
Gaston Gingras
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Grant
Who is the most overated player and the most underated player in this draft?

tx

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06-19-2011, 09:51 PM
  #200
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Hey Grant.

If you were to pick at #17, who would you want to see on the board still?

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