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Old
06-19-2011, 01:37 PM
  #26
DesertDawg
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i can see that
not sure there are other good young potential starter options though
what are the Bryz replacement plans? weigh in what you'd likely have to pay a UFA starter vs Schneider's cap hit and it might be a different picture
Schneider salary (cap hit has no significance to the Coyotes) is only for 1 year and most assuredly increase significantly, if he becomes a #1 next season... And Ballard's over-paid contract lasts 3 more years. That's what GMDM would consider in making a judgement. It's nice to be able to get rid of Jovo's contract, and Maloney will not take on bad contracts if he doesn't need to. Losing Doan is incomprehensible (so much more than Bryzgalov) to the franchise, the community, and a potential new owner...

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Old
06-19-2011, 01:40 PM
  #27
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Exactly. Love to pick up Nabokov for "B" asset or a couple of "C" assets. Save top high end value to address our needs up front. Specifically down the middle.

If Vancouver wants to ask the world for their back up goaltender, they can keep him. Good luck getting a kings ransom next season when he's an RFA, with no interest in re-signing, and you have ZERO leverage in any potential trade. That's the reality of the situation. It's just wishful thinking to believe otherwise.

There are plenty of good goalies available. Give me the aging all star for another year or two, and maybe our own goalie of the future will be nearly ready. Is that Visentin, Domingue, Lee, Darling, Bennett, or some other 'tender? I guess we will find out.

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Old
06-19-2011, 01:40 PM
  #28
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Sprint can go to hell.

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06-19-2011, 01:47 PM
  #29
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I will be flamed for this but Nucks fans have been ballooning Schneiders value to no end. I very much doubt is worth in reality is anywhere near as bloated as it is in the perception of many of the posters on this message board.

If you want to dump Ballard and are willing to part with Schneider, personally I'd be willing to offer up the 20th overall. Yep, a late first in a bad draft. I wouldn't dream of parting with more value than that.

Feels good to come clean. Haha.
The value isn't there. Ballard for the 20th overall is more realistic.

Ballard's trade value will be much higher following the draft and free agency. There will probably be at least 15-20 teams looking to upgrade their top 4 on defense and after most of them come up empty handed in July the interst in a guy like Ballard will increase. The unfortunate reality for a lot of teams is they just won't be able to entice free agents to come their way - and that's where a signed Ballard becomes an attractive commodity. Keep in mind there were apparently close to 10 teams inquiring about him less than a year ago...

Not to mention I think there will be lot of interest in Schneider. At 25 he's ready to take the reins as a starter, he makes a paltry 900K next year and has the athleticism and tecnique to be a difference maker. IMO the difference between Luongo and Schneider just wasn't that noticeable this year - it just didn't feel like a downgrade when Cory was between the pipes.

Cory Schneider will not be used to get Ballard off the books.

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06-19-2011, 01:54 PM
  #30
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You believe Keith Ballard is currently worth a first round draft pick? Also that Schneider is worth considerably more? As in double?

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06-19-2011, 01:56 PM
  #31
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You believe Keith Ballard is currently worth a first round draft pick? Also that Schneider is worth considerably more? As in double?
i don't -- edit, though i should say i wouldnt be surprised if Gillis pulls something like that off. A late 1st is not outrageous.

maybe a 3rd, possibly a 2nd

he is a top-4 Dman in his Prime who can hit, skare and score ...you guys of anyone should know, he had his best years there.

He is not a worthless asset. Lots of teams could use a top 4 guy.

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Old
06-19-2011, 02:06 PM
  #32
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You believe Keith Ballard is currently worth a first round draft pick? Also that Schneider is worth considerably more? As in double?
Would I be surprised if a guy that fetched Grabner and a 1st round pick a year ago could fetch a late 1st? No. General managers don't suffer the same 'what have you done for me lately' mentality as the young, reactionary fans. Ballard has been a top 2-3 dman for years prior to this injury riddled season and has a rare combination of physicality, speed, puckmoving ability and durability.

Going into last summer Kevin Bieksa was coming off 2 dreadful, injury riddled years, a career less impressive than Ballard's and was apparently drawing interest around the league. If he was coveted I would be shocked if Ballard wasn't...

It's supply and demand at work here. Puckmoving dmen that can play a regular shift are one of the most sought after commodities in today's game right now and there just aren't nearly enough to go around. And after seeing how successful the Hawks were last year and the Canucks this year with the most active transition games in the NHL look for that type of player to be coveted even more than ever. There will be teams like the Islanders and Blue Jackets that want to upgraqde their blueline but fail to attract one of the very few free agents available.

What gave you the impression I thought Schneider would garner 2 1st round picks?

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06-19-2011, 02:08 PM
  #33
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Can we just ban Canucks fans from making proposals involving Keith Ballard? There are litterally 4 on the first page alone.

They all involve Ballard plus not nearly enough for another team's star(s).

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Old
06-19-2011, 02:16 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Would I be surprised if a guy that fetched Grabner and a 1st round pick a year ago could fetch a late 1st? No. General managers don't suffer the same 'what have you done for me lately' mentality as the young, reactionary fans. Ballard has been a top 2-3 dman for years prior to this injury riddled season and has a rare combination of physicality, speed, puckmoving ability and durability.

Going into last summer Kevin Bieksa was coming off 2 dreadful, injury riddled years, a career less impressive than Ballard's and was apparently drawing interest around the league. If he was coveted I would be shocked if Ballard wasn't...

It's supply and demand at work here. Puckmoving dmen that can play a regular shift are one of the most sought after commodities in today's game right now and there just aren't nearly enough to go around. And after seeing how successful the Hawks were last year and the Canucks this year with the most active transition games in the NHL look for that type of player to be coveted even more than ever. There will be teams like the Islanders and Blue Jackets that want to upgraqde their blueline but fail to attract one of the very few free agents available.

What gave you the impression I thought Schneider would garner 2 1st round picks?
I'm not saying nobody will take that contract. But there are some people who find it hard to believe. Including professionals:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...-as-blackhawks

"Meanwhile, the Canucks have four more years of Keith Ballard on the books at $4.2 million per season. Yikes. This is the same Ballard who couldn't crack the depleted lineup in the final three games of the championship series. On the one hand, you'd say Ballard was impossible to trade, but if young goalie Cory Schneider was part of that deal, you might find a taker."

LeBrun may or may not be right, but he's more informed than us peons on HFBoards. He does have a vote in the Norris trophy ballot after all.

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Old
06-19-2011, 02:17 PM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Would I be surprised if a guy that fetched Grabner and a 1st round pick a year ago could fetch a late 1st? No. General managers don't suffer the same 'what have you done for me lately' mentality as the young, reactionary fans. Ballard has been a top 2-3 dman for years prior to this injury riddled season and has a rare combination of physicality, speed, puckmoving ability and durability.

Going into last summer Kevin Bieksa was coming off 2 dreadful, injury riddled years, a career less impressive than Ballard's and was apparently drawing interest around the league. If he was coveted I would be shocked if Ballard wasn't...

It's supply and demand at work here. Puckmoving dmen that can play a regular shift are one of the most sought after commodities in today's game right now and there just aren't nearly enough to go around. And after seeing how successful the Hawks were last year and the Canucks this year with the most active transition games in the NHL look for that type of player to be coveted even more than ever. There will be teams like the Islanders and Blue Jackets that want to upgraqde their blueline but fail to attract one of the very few free agents available.

What gave you the impression I thought Schneider would garner 2 1st round picks?
Yeah, this is why teams are lining up around the block for Wade Redden.

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Old
06-19-2011, 02:17 PM
  #36
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This far than fair value for Doan but I don’t think this works for other reasons. PHX wouldn’t want Ballard back they traded him away for a reason and wouldn’t want another Jovanoski type contract you won’t see PHX sign these types of deals anymore. Schnider is a goalie PHX could use and I think it would be a good place for him. He has shown that he is great playing around distraction and god knows PHX has tons of those! But Doan is not worth it for that pkg I would rather add that roster forward and go after a Ryan Malone or Bryan Little type guy! As for the Schnider haters watch this guy play and if you know ANYTHING about hockey you will see that yes this guy is a number 1 NHL goalie!

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Old
06-19-2011, 02:23 PM
  #37
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Originally Posted by Kaibur View Post
I'm not saying nobody will take that contract. But there are some people who find it hard to believe. Including professionals:

http://espn.go.com/blog/nhl/post/_/i...-as-blackhawks

"Meanwhile, the Canucks have four more years of Keith Ballard on the books at $4.2 million per season. Yikes. This is the same Ballard who couldn't crack the depleted lineup in the final three games of the championship series. On the one hand, you'd say Ballard was impossible to trade, but if young goalie Cory Schneider was part of that deal, you might find a taker."

LeBrun may or may not be right, but he's more informed than us peons on HFBoards. He does have a vote in the Norris trophy ballot after all.
Florida fans didn`t think they would get much for Ballard last year at the draft due to Keith`s contract. But apparently there was a ton of interest and the Canucks had to put together a pretty substantial offer to get things done.

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Yeah, this is why teams are lining up around the block for Wade Redden.
Wade Redden isn`t a comparable for Keith Ballard.

Look at what Scott Gomez returned with a horrible, longterm contract. Supply and demand at work there. Centremen and puckmoving dmen are hot commodities.

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Old
06-19-2011, 02:29 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
the same 'what have you done for me lately' mentality as the young, reactionary fans.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Florida fans didn`t think they would get much for Ballard last year at the draft due to Keith`s contract.
I'm not quoting fans here, I'm quoting a professional sports writer who has contacts with teams and has a vote for the Norris trophy.

But nevermind all that. If there is not a team willing to take Ballard's contract on for even a late round pick, are you comfortable letting one of the UFA Dmen that played 20+ min in the playoffs and helped get you within a breath of the Cup go and replace him with Ballard? Because if you are, there's no sense worrying about it.

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Old
06-19-2011, 02:34 PM
  #39
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Wade Redden isn`t a comparable for Keith Ballard.
How so? Frankly, Redden was a much better defenceman than Ballard. There's a pretty consistent pattern in these situations. As long as a player keeps getting big minutes their value doesn't drop much, no matter how badly their playing. Once a player's minutes get cut and their role reduced, their value tanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
Look at what Scott Gomez returned with a horrible, longterm contract. Supply and demand at work there. Centremen and puckmoving dmen are hot commodities.
The main difference being that Gomez was never a healthy scratch, his minutes never dropped off. In fact Gomez led all Rangers forwards in icetime the season before he was traded. The points may not have been there but he was still one of their most important forwards.

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06-19-2011, 03:32 PM
  #40
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If we aquire another high paid (or over paid) Dman, we'll have to have another trade in the works to dump one of them. Yandle will get a big raise and might be the only one that plays to the worth of his contract. Morris, Klesla and Rozy are all making decent size amounts.

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Old
06-19-2011, 03:44 PM
  #41
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Check, please!

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Old
06-19-2011, 04:20 PM
  #42
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Oh, so basically your saying you'll not trade anything the Canucks want? You have to give to get you know. This is what a Leaf fan would propose
We didnt propose this trade. No need to burn a copcar or anything over it. We have a lot of assets we will trade with, Maclean and Tikanov maybe even Gormley come to mind. Doan is worth far more to this franchise than he is to any other. Its a wierd thing, but its true. Trade doan and you trade the 8000 STH right with him. Any owner that we get will be judged at least at the beginning on how this guy is treated.

in other words unless you offer us Bieksa on a 5 year 2 million cap hit contract and both Sedins - Doan is not availible.

Doan will and should play with the coyotes until he decides that he is done, or the team decided not to extend him a contract.

Players earn NMC for a reason, its that they ....wait for it ..... DONT WANT TO MOVE.

So I would counter with Ballard, Scnieder for 20th pick this year, 3rd round 2012 and Tikanov and Summers.

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06-19-2011, 04:43 PM
  #43
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We didnt propose this trade. No need to burn a copcar or anything over it. We have a lot of assets we will trade with, Maclean and Tikanov maybe even Gormley come to mind. Doan is worth far more to this franchise than he is to any other. Its a wierd thing, but its true. Trade doan and you trade the 8000 STH right with him. Any owner that we get will be judged at least at the beginning on how this guy is treated.

in other words unless you offer us Bieksa on a 5 year 2 million cap hit contract and both Sedins - Doan is not availible.

Doan will and should play with the coyotes until he decides that he is done, or the team decided not to extend him a contract.

Players earn NMC for a reason, its that they ....wait for it ..... DONT WANT TO MOVE.

So I would counter with Ballard, Scnieder for 20th pick this year, 3rd round 2012 and Tikanov and Summers.
I rather the Coyotes keep their assets and go after Nabokov instead of taking on both Schneider and Ballard...

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Old
06-19-2011, 07:36 PM
  #44
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If Scnieder is all that, it may be worth the asset loss - maybe do Schnieder for Tikanov and a 2nd then, - the chance to lock up a goaltender long term is worth losing an asset if he is THE guy

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06-19-2011, 07:42 PM
  #45
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Not even close to enough for Doan.

He has said in many interviews that his work is not done in the Desert until he wins a Cup. He has also taken less money to stay with the Yotes. Doan has multiple kids and does not want to move anywhere.

He wont move.

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Old
06-19-2011, 08:48 PM
  #46
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Ballard WILL be a Canuck next season and likely for the duration of his current contract.

Gillis isn't dumb. He will not buy "high" and sell "low"....its for this reason that Scnheider hasnt been flipped for a 2nd rounder, or any and all of the Cody Hodgson rumours are what they are - RUMOURS.

Fellow Canucks fans, can we please keep these trash proposals centered around Ballard, Hodgson and Schneider off this page....Im embarassed enough right now....

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