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Cam Cole: NA NA... told you so - Canucks not tough enough to win

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Old
06-19-2011, 09:16 PM
  #1
Wetcoaster
 
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Cam Cole: NA NA... told you so - Canucks not tough enough to win

Cam Cole demonstrating his maturity by ridiculing those who disagreed with his prescient opinion about the Canucks chances at the start of the regular season.

He mocks Alain Vignealut and Mike Gillis for expecting the NHL to actually follow the rule book as written... not just in the regular season but also in the play-offs.
"I think we did play a physical brand of hockey, whistle to whistle," Alain Vigneault said Friday. "What might have caught us off guard was the stuff that was allowed that usually isn't permitted. For whatever reason, it was."

"We designed our team around the current rule book, the current method of playing the game -we were the best team in the league this year," said GM Mike Gillis. "I am not going to plan a team around competing with one specific team in this league. We specifically went about asking certain of our players not to do things after the whistle, to do things differently -and we got the results. You can't argue with the results. At some point, if you keep knocking on the door, you're going to break through, you're going to face a different set of circumstances, and that's what I'm going to do."
So Cole thinks he finally got something right and he struts around with his chest puffed out... to match his beer belly.
Hate to say I told you so but ...it's a nasty business and the Canucks could have used a few more bad men, and maybe they should dealt Luongo instead of signing him

SO BITE ME: To those who wrote, obnoxiously and all-knowingly, excoriating the author for suggesting on opening night of the Canucks' season that before it was all over, they would regret not having an enforcer on the team: you may send apologies to the email address below.
http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/H...#ixzz1PmIZ21MC

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06-19-2011, 09:24 PM
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Nazzy-19
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Us losing had more to do with our pp being invisible in the finals. The turn the other cheek method worked all season and through the first 3 rounds because our pp would make teams pay. The Bruins had no reason to worry about that.

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06-19-2011, 09:36 PM
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YogiCanucks
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What if is a dangerous game to play... but what if Canucks had a COMPLETE fluke game and won? Then are they suddenly "tough enough to win"?

Please, teams that aren't tough enough to win don't make the playoffs. I doubt you'll find a true hockey fan who believes this years versions of the Sharks weren't "tough enough to win".

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06-19-2011, 09:41 PM
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@kurtenblog
Kurtenblog
Imagine how much of a dick you must be to write an "I told you so" rant. Epitome of unlikeable and immodest. There's some irony in there.
Quote:
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Rip the Canucks all you want. We rip them all the time. But when you make it about yourself? You're a dick.
quotes refer to dan tencer, but the same logic applies here

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06-19-2011, 09:50 PM
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Because having Darcy Hordichuk around made all the difference in the previous two seasons, right, Cam?

Go back to Edmonton, or stop writing about hockey and spend all your time making more awkward passes at Kristin Reid on twitter.

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06-19-2011, 10:09 PM
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VanEric
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You know, Rick Rypien in the lineup would have totally made the PP go in the Final.

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06-19-2011, 10:28 PM
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I agree with Cam Cole...that's why there was such a bidding war for Trevor Gillies. What's he making now, 9-10 million?

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06-19-2011, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Lard_Lad View Post
Because having Darcy Hordichuk around made all the difference in the previous two seasons, right, Cam?

Go back to Edmonton, or stop writing about hockey and spend all your time making more awkward passes at Kristin Reid on twitter.
DETAILS PLEASE?!

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06-19-2011, 10:31 PM
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VanEric
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He just wants an enforcer on the team so he'll have another guy who he can assassinate like he did to Torres.

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06-19-2011, 10:39 PM
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Lard_Lad
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DETAILS PLEASE?!
I don't remember the exact quote, but it was something about wanting to be on the kiss cam with her. Another writer, might've been one of the Province guys, called him on it.

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06-19-2011, 10:48 PM
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Some people, like this reporter, don't understand that almost any "type" of team can win the cup. You can build a tough team or a skill team and still win, as long as you do build that style of team well and get lucky with injuries/matchups (every type of team will always have another type of team that, if built just as well, will be able to beat them). You only need to look at the first two cup winners post-lockout to see what I mean. One was a mean, in your face, take so many penalties that the refs won't call them anymore, gritty, nasty team with two HOF defensemen while the other was skilled top to bottom mix of veterans and young guys that had an amazing rookie goalie playing behind what was a relatively mediocre (compared to previous cup champions) defense win them the cup.

Whenever this team loses, everyone always chimes in with the way they would build a team if they had the opportunity to do so and says "well if they did it my way they would've won and because they didn't they lost." An enforcer would've made absolutely zero difference on this team. If anything, I'm glad this team doesn't have an enforcer as guys like Marchand would NEVER fight an enforcer. Instead, Marchand and his line would dance right around that guy and score. Enforcers serve their purpose in the regular season, but during the playoffs they are basically useless. Maybe having a second line winger who can play tough (like Backes, for example) would've helped, but those type of players are extremely difficult to acquire and were from what the article was suggesting.

If the aftermath of every season has taught me anything, its that I'm really glad we have such a calm, composed general manager at the helm who's able to look at the big picture and not just what happened in the final few games of the season.

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06-19-2011, 11:18 PM
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thenextone
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LOL. It's ridiculous that a team which lost game 7 of the Cup finals is going through this much soul searching and self doubt.

One team had to lose.

For a guy to say "I told you so" about a regular season belief this team couldn't win in the playoffs, do so if the team loses in the first or 2nd round. Not after basically making it to the final game of the season.

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06-19-2011, 11:24 PM
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I like Cam Cole, and I think he writes some good things.

That said, an enforcer would not have helped us out one bit. Where the Canucks were beat was in the toughness of their go-to guys. While the Canucks had guys like the Twins to rely on, the Bruins had Marchand, Peverley, Lucic, Recchi(who played a surprisingly robust game) and more. The Bruins' offensive leaders were all big, physical players who loved to mix it up after the whistles. The only guys in the Canucks' top six capable of that were Kesler and Burrows, and neither of them strikes fear into the hearts of opposing players as a scrapper.

Now the question is, does the top six need beefing up? Or is Gillis' MO of "building a team that can compete whistle-to-whistle" going to pay off?

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06-19-2011, 11:40 PM
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There's a lot of the fat old "never was" type writers that seem to be experts on hockey. Cam Cole, Terry Jones etc...

While they are undoubtedly journalists with credentials that doesnt qualify them as "hockey people" and they know nothing more than the hardcore fan on these boards that follows the team and league.

Difference being that we arent getting paid to write about it.

Criticizing a team that was withing 1 game of winning it all is stupidity in its finest form.

This is one of the main reasons I stopped my subscription to the Vancouver Sun. The stupidity there is in terms of their sportwriters is baffling.

When guys like Jeremy Roenick make more sense in regards to criticizing a player/team, you're in trouble.

Not surprised in the least. Perhaps him and Terry Jones had a strawberry milkshake with 2 straws while he was writing this.

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06-19-2011, 11:57 PM
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Well I'm sold. Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out, Mike. We've got a new GM - Cam Cole.

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06-19-2011, 11:58 PM
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Yes, losing 1 too many games in the playoffs is because we didn't have Hordichuk. This guy should be a GM, I mean game 7 of the finals? May as well be last in the league!

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06-20-2011, 12:11 AM
  #17
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Originally Posted by Lard_Lad View Post
Because having Darcy Hordichuk around made all the difference in the previous two seasons, right, Cam?

Go back to Edmonton, or stop writing about hockey and spend all your time making more awkward passes at Kristin Reid on twitter.
Well, I guess I don't need to type what I was going to type

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06-20-2011, 12:19 AM
  #18
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Originally Posted by Mr. Canucklehead View Post
I like Cam Cole, and I think he writes some good things.

That said, an enforcer would not have helped us out one bit. Where the Canucks were beat was in the toughness of their go-to guys. While the Canucks had guys like the Twins to rely on, the Bruins had Marchand, Peverley, Lucic, Recchi(who played a surprisingly robust game) and more. The Bruins' offensive leaders were all big, physical players who loved to mix it up after the whistles. The only guys in the Canucks' top six capable of that were Kesler and Burrows, and neither of them strikes fear into the hearts of opposing players as a scrapper.

Now the question is, does the top six need beefing up? Or is Gillis' MO of "building a team that can compete whistle-to-whistle" going to pay off?
I disagree for the most part. Boston had guys willing to mix it up but their offensive leaders weren't big by any stretch, nor were they overly physical. The only 2 big forwards they had after Horton went down were Lucic and Thornton. After those two they are a pretty average to puny team up front. It was IMO, quite simply two sets of rules for both teams. When the Bruins took their shots at the Canucks they were lauded as being am "old time playoff hockey" team and when the Canucks did anything they were reviled as being cheapshot artist and divers. And the legend of our treacherous behaviour only grew as the series went on. And one only has to look at how Brad Marchand's improper antics were met with humor and admiration, a sort of second coming of Kenny "the rat" Linseman.

Personally, I'd like to get bigger in the top 6 but more important than that I'd like to get meaner and grittier, regardless of the size. Raymond isn't gritty or mean and is feather light. Samuelsson is big but doesn't really threaten anyone and spends too much time on the perimeter. Higgins does commendable work on the walls and goes to the net but doesn't have an ounce of mean.

I also don't believe all the Canucks play "whistle to whistle" as claimed. Most of them do, but guys like Burrows and Lapierre don't. They yap and agitate, they take late whacks at pucks and give late shots. I don't care that they do, but the claim that they are so innocent and only play "whistle to whistle" is crap. Playing that way only works if you don't embellish and dive either, which we do far too much of.

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06-20-2011, 12:56 AM
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It'd be cool if the Sedins were 6'6, 250 pounds muscle, with the same amount of skill. With the 'intangibles' of Bobby Clarke.

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06-20-2011, 05:12 AM
  #20
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Originally Posted by thecupismine View Post
Some people, like this reporter, don't understand that almost any "type" of team can win the cup. You can build a tough team or a skill team and still win, as long as you do build that style of team well and get lucky with injuries/matchups (every type of team will always have another type of team that, if built just as well, will be able to beat them). You only need to look at the first two cup winners post-lockout to see what I mean. One was a mean, in your face, take so many penalties that the refs won't call them anymore, gritty, nasty team with two HOF defensemen while the other was skilled top to bottom mix of veterans and young guys that had an amazing rookie goalie playing behind what was a relatively mediocre (compared to previous cup champions) defense win them the cup.

Whenever this team loses, everyone always chimes in with the way they would build a team if they had the opportunity to do so and says "well if they did it my way they would've won and because they didn't they lost." An enforcer would've made absolutely zero difference on this team. If anything, I'm glad this team doesn't have an enforcer as guys like Marchand would NEVER fight an enforcer. Instead, Marchand and his line would dance right around that guy and score. Enforcers serve their purpose in the regular season, but during the playoffs they are basically useless. Maybe having a second line winger who can play tough (like Backes, for example) would've helped, but those type of players are extremely difficult to acquire and were from what the article was suggesting.

If the aftermath of every season has taught me anything, its that I'm really glad we have such a calm, composed general manager at the helm who's able to look at the big picture and not just what happened in the final few games of the season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thenextone View Post
LOL. It's ridiculous that a team which lost game 7 of the Cup finals is going through this much soul searching and self doubt.

One team had to lose.

For a guy to say "I told you so" about a regular season belief this team couldn't win in the playoffs, do so if the team loses in the first or 2nd round. Not after basically making it to the final game of the season.
Quote:
Originally Posted by LiquidSnake View Post
There's a lot of the fat old "never was" type writers that seem to be experts on hockey. Cam Cole, Terry Jones etc...

While they are undoubtedly journalists with credentials that doesnt qualify them as "hockey people" and they know nothing more than the hardcore fan on these boards that follows the team and league.

Difference being that we arent getting paid to write about it.

Criticizing a team that was withing 1 game of winning it all is stupidity in its finest form.

This is one of the main reasons I stopped my subscription to the Vancouver Sun. The stupidity there is in terms of their sportwriters is baffling.

When guys like Jeremy Roenick make more sense in regards to criticizing a player/team, you're in trouble.

Not surprised in the least. Perhaps him and Terry Jones had a strawberry milkshake with 2 straws while he was writing this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Canucker View Post
I disagree for the most part. Boston had guys willing to mix it up but their offensive leaders weren't big by any stretch, nor were they overly physical. The only 2 big forwards they had after Horton went down were Lucic and Thornton. After those two they are a pretty average to puny team up front. It was IMO, quite simply two sets of rules for both teams. When the Bruins took their shots at the Canucks they were lauded as being am "old time playoff hockey" team and when the Canucks did anything they were reviled as being cheapshot artist and divers. And the legend of our treacherous behaviour only grew as the series went on. And one only has to look at how Brad Marchand's improper antics were met with humor and admiration, a sort of second coming of Kenny "the rat" Linseman.

Personally, I'd like to get bigger in the top 6 but more important than that I'd like to get meaner and grittier, regardless of the size. Raymond isn't gritty or mean and is feather light. Samuelsson is big but doesn't really threaten anyone and spends too much time on the perimeter. Higgins does commendable work on the walls and goes to the net but doesn't have an ounce of mean.

I also don't believe all the Canucks play "whistle to whistle" as claimed. Most of them do, but guys like Burrows and Lapierre don't. They yap and agitate, they take late whacks at pucks and give late shots. I don't care that they do, but the claim that they are so innocent and only play "whistle to whistle" is crap. Playing that way only works if you don't embellish and dive either, which we do far too much of.
This thread has a surprising amount of quality insight compared to many other threads in this forum. The above posts are all spot-on, IMO.

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Old
06-20-2011, 08:56 AM
  #21
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The 1st time in franchise history the club opts not to carry an enforcer, has the best regular season and playoffs since it's inception 41 years ago and Cam Cole deems it a good time to say 'I told you so'?

So is he trying to imply Brad Marchand had free rein to rough up the Sedins because we didn't have anyone tough enough to challenge him?

What a moron.

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06-20-2011, 09:09 AM
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Wilch
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The Canucks should sign Vladimir Putin to a deal. Nobody would **** with him or anyone else playing on his line.

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06-20-2011, 09:12 AM
  #23
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Originally Posted by Drop the Sopel View Post
The 1st time in franchise history the club opts not to carry an enforcer, has the best regular season and playoffs since it's inception 41 years ago and Cam Cole deems it a good time to say 'I told you so'?

So is he trying to imply Brad Marchand had free rein to rough up the Sedins because we didn't have anyone tough enough to challenge him?

What a moron.
It's the annual 'we lost because of toughness' brigade.

Every year for the past 20 years, no matter how/why we actually lost and no matter how tough/not tough we were, the exact same thing has happened. The bulk of fans (and media) in this marketplace immediately gravitate to toughness as the reason we lost.

And yeah, what an idiot article. Yeah, Cam, I'm sure dressing Darcy Hordichuk instead of Tanner Glass would have made a huge difference.

Toughness is so far down the list of reasons why we lost it isn't even funny :

1) Tim Thomas playing out of his mind.

2) Ridiculous injury problems on our blueline.

3) Awful PP in the Finals.

4) Luongo poor for 4 of the last 5 Finals games.

5) Entire 2nd line injured, depth scoring falls off.

6) Sedins needed to be much better, although Thomas made their performance look worse than it was.

7) NHL lets interference rules go back to the dark ages.

But yeah, toughness! Need some goons!

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Old
06-20-2011, 07:09 PM
  #24
JuniorNelson
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Blah, blah blah. Did the Canucks get roughed up or not?

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06-20-2011, 07:17 PM
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Canucker
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Blah, blah blah. Did the Canucks get roughed up or not?
After the whistles, sure. But only because they were trying to play a disciplined game (for the most part). We roughed them up whistle to whistle.

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