That's not bad value, but I don't see the Penguin's doing it. Staal is the player Shero would create if someone asked him the imagine his ideal Penguin.
I suggested yesterday that, if the Pens go out with barely a whimper, Ray Shero is going to be open to just about anything.
One thing I suggested was moving Staal if he can get a Richards or Carter style return. Kulemin + #5 overall would be it. I also suggested Stewart + Tarasenko. Basically, a two for one type where one piece of the two isn't ****.
I also think that Orpik maybe and Michalek most likely will be available for a Whitney or Gologoski type of deal.
That's not bad value, but I don't see the Penguin's doing it. Staal is the player Shero would create if someone asked him the imagine his ideal Penguin.
I don't see Shero doing it either, but I'll be curious to see what kind of pressure comes to bear from above if this ends badly.
Staal goes on the market, and Shero will have his pick of big time offers. Kulemin + #5 overall, STL I'm sure steps up, along with another half dozen teams (more will inquire, but I'm saying he'd have his pick of a half dozen Carter or Richards deal type of offers).
I don't see Shero doing it either, but I'll be curious to see what kind of pressure comes to bear from above if this ends badly.
Staal goes on the market, and Shero will have his pick of big time offers. Kulemin + #5 overall, STL I'm sure steps up, along with another half dozen teams (more will inquire, but I'm saying he'd have his pick of a half dozen Carter or Richards deal type of offers).
Quote:
Originally Posted by KIRK
I don't think you're off your rocker.
I suggested yesterday that, if the Pens go out with barely a whimper, Ray Shero is going to be open to just about anything.
One thing I suggested was moving Staal if he can get a Richards or Carter style return. Kulemin + #5 overall would be it. I also suggested Stewart + Tarasenko. Basically, a two for one type where one piece of the two isn't ****.
I also think that Orpik maybe and Michalek most likely will be available for a Whitney or Gologoski type of deal.
I agree with the above, although I'm inclined to believe the "core" guys that could be moved after a sweep, in order of most to least likely, are: Orpik, Martin, Michalek, and Staal. Orpik and Martin being in the "if one of them isn't gone I'll be surprised" category and Staal being in the "I'd be shocked, but the Penguins only have 2 truly untouchable players" category.
Role players that I think would go, same ordering, are: Lovejoy, Asham, Kennedy, and Jeffrey.
I agree with the above, although I'm inclined to believe the "core" guys that could be moved after a sweep, in order of most to least likely, are: Orpik, Martin, Michalek, and Staal. Orpik and Martin being in the "if one of them isn't gone I'll be surprised" category and Staal being in the "I'd be shocked, but the Penguins only have 2 truly untouchable players" category.
Role players that I think would go, same ordering, are: Lovejoy, Asham, Kennedy, and Jeffrey.
Here's who I think the Pens untouchables are (as in, I don't see Shero moving or even listening on these guys, period):
Anyone else, and Shero will listen. It would take a HUGE price for Staal. What did he ask for at the draft, Ladd and Jack Johnson? Side note: Wonder if Carolina wishes they'd done that? Anyway, that's the type of return most here would've called 'value' for Malkin (before he'd played a game in the NHL), no?
That's what it'll take to pry Staal, not 'value', but the type of return that would make fans of another team say 'we really overpaid big time'. I think Shero would want a little more than Kulemin + #5 for Staal, but I could see Shero listening to offers like that and then making his counters this summer. That alone would be a change.
EDIT:
For Orpik, I think he'd want a little more than value. For Michalek, I think he'd want 'value' (a good hockey trade). For Martin, if he could move Martin and Kennedy to Minnesota for their 2nd, he might do it.
I suggested yesterday that, if the Pens go out with barely a whimper, Ray Shero is going to be open to just about anything.
One thing I suggested was moving Staal if he can get a Richards or Carter style return. Kulemin + #5 overall would be it. I also suggested Stewart + Tarasenko. Basically, a two for one type where one piece of the two isn't ****.
I also think that Orpik maybe and Michalek most likely will be available for a Whitney or Gologoski type of deal.
I think Kulemin and 5th would be better for Pitt than Stewart and Tarasenko. Apparently Kule has some good history with Malkin and his contract will be very good considering his terrible season. Call me crazy I think he would absolutely net 30 with Crosby or Malkin.
Burke might kick the tires. I think a factor will be Sids health as far as Staals availability. Staal is what the leafs need and I'd like to see how he does in the spot light.
What are you guys talking about? We're not trading Staal. Especially not for those returns.
Two guys in the league I'd trade him for. And they're not available.
With respect, I think if this ends badly, then Ray Shero will listen on Staal. Doesn't mean he'll accept. Doesn't mean he won't demand a huge payment (think Richards/Carter return, maybe at a minimum). But, I think he'll listen, which is more than he'd have done a week ago.
I'd want more than Kulemin, #5 OR Stewart, Tarasenko, but I think that's the point where Shero might listen/counter.
Who knows? Who knows how this ends or what Staal wants in his next deal?
I just have a feeling-- maybe it's wrong-- that the 'won't even listen if you ask' list is going to be a little bit shorter moving forward.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Griffski
I think Kulemin and 5th would be better for Pitt than Stewart and Tarasenko. Apparently Kule has some good history with Malkin and his contract will be very good considering his terrible season. Call me crazy I think he would absolutely net 30 with Crosby or Malkin.
Burke might kick the tires. I think a factor will be Sids health as far as Staals availability. Staal is what the leafs need and I'd like to see how he does in the spot light.
I agree about the return. That said, I think Shero would want more. As I said, at the draft, before he was picked, when Carolina asked, Shero asked for Andrew Ladd and Jack Johnson. Shero probably would set the price at Kulemin, 5th overall, and something significant. If he ever did move Staal, then it's going to be for the type of return that he can say 'no regrets'.
That said, if Shero did tell some GM's, Burke included, that Staal was available, then he'd have no shortage of huge offers IMO.
Burke would have to be tremendously confident that he could re-sign Staal if he was going to pay that price for him.
Yes, he would be. But, here's my question: If Burke believed that he could resign Staal, then how high do you see him going in an offer?
He's not going to waste Shero's time with Kadri or second round picks. If Shero's going to bite (or atleast thing long and really hard about it), then it's two of Kulemin, Schenn, and the #5 overall PLUS something else (maybe the #35 overall, maybe Colborne, something like that).
You think I'm on base on this one (the type of return it would take)? And, how high does Burke really go?
Side note: I suspect Burke really would love to bag both Staal AND Orpik (maybe Tangradi as a toss in). Not sure what I think about Staal, Tangradi, Orpik for Kulemin, Colborne, Schenn, Gunnarrson, #5 overall. Not sure if Burke would offer it. Just a thought about the whole 'toughness' thing. That would be one spot shopping for Burke. Anyway, it's why I don't propose trades . . .
Staal wont be traded but if he is i'd rather have 5th OV+Schenn. We need D like Schenn on this team. Keep Orpik. Trade Martin+TK to Minny for a prospect+pick at draft, then try and target Stewart...maybe Niskanen for Stewart RFA swaps? Niskanen will be cheaper.
Letang-Schenn
Despres-Orpik
Eng-Murray
Strait
Pens draft Murray 5th overall if he falls that far, or try trade up for him offering up both 5th+pens 1st round pick.
How would it work if we bought out Martin? What would the cap hit be and for how many years?
Paul Martin buyout from CapGeek.com
2012-13: $2,555,556
2013-14: $1,555,556
2014-15: $1,555,556
2015-16: $1,555,556
2016-17: $1,555,556
2017-18: $1,555,556
Paul Martin is 31 years old on the buyout date of June 16, 2012, setting the buyout ratio at 2/3 and the total buyout cost at $9,333,333 spread over 6 years. His contract was originally valued at $25,000,000 beginning in 2010 and ending in 2015, with $14,000,000 remaining from the buyout year forward. The following is a season-by-season breakdown of the buyout.
Buying him out is definitely not an option, we can still give him away for next to nothing. He'll probably look solid playing for a team with a defensive system.
Buying him out is definitely not an option, we can still give him away for next to nothing. He'll probably look solid playing for a team with a defensive system.
I agree. He needs to play in a more conservative defensive minded system like he did in Jersey.
We need more defense, size and grit both at forward and defense. I'd dump Martin if possible, re-sign Niskanen and try to add a big body like Gill or Allen (any other suggestions?) to our PK. We can talk about pipe dreams like Suter, but I try to keep the targets more realistic.
We could also use a big body grinder like Moen or a defensive specialist like Sami Pahlsson or Dominic Moore.
I agree. He needs to play in a more conservative defensive minded system like he did in Jersey.
We need more defense, size and grit both at forward and defense. I'd dump Martin if possible, re-sign Niskanen and try to add a big body like Gill or Allen (any other suggestions?) to our PK. We can talk about pipe dreams like Suter, but I try to keep the targets more realistic.
We could also use a big body grinder like Moen or a defensive specialist like Sami Pahlsson or Dominic Moore.
I'd really like to get a big body grinder to play 3rd line center, slide Staal up with Malkin and Neal, and put Kunitz back with Sid.
