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#37 - NHL All-Time Top 50 Player Rankings

View Poll Results: Who is the best player listed?
Bill Durnan 0 0%
Newsy Lalonde 8 14.81%
Nicklas Lidstrom 13 24.07%
Dickie Moore 0 0%
George Hainsworth 1 1.85%
Chris Chelios 1 1.85%
Syl Apps 1 1.85%
Tim Horton 3 5.56%
Brett Hull 11 20.37%
Martin Brodeur 12 22.22%
Dit Clapper 3 5.56%
Charlie Conacher 0 0%
Bernie Geoffrion 0 0%
Joe Malone 1 1.85%
Bill Cook 0 0%
Voters: 54. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
07-22-2004, 07:29 PM
  #26
kmad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Lander
lol top 50 at best
You're one of those people who thinks that no current player will be a legend, and olden days hockey is everything

20 years from now I'll be like you, and I'll be regaling my children about legends of Nicklas Lidstrom and Sergei Fedorov, while saying how Sidney Crosby is just an overhyped hack

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07-22-2004, 07:49 PM
  #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
20 years from now I'll be like you, and I'll be regaling my children about legends of Nicklas Lidstrom and Sergei Fedorov, while saying how Sidney Crosby is just an overhyped hack
Nicklas Lidstrom or Sergei Fedorov never were and never will be legendary players. Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Rocket; those are legendary players. Lidstrom and Fedorov aren't in that class.

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07-22-2004, 08:15 PM
  #28
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Hull

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07-22-2004, 08:18 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
meh. At first I said 1960, and then I remembered Doug Harvey, so I changed it to 1950.

edit: reply to my PM!
Doug Harvey and Red Kelly both made their NHL debut in the 1947-48 season.

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07-22-2004, 08:30 PM
  #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
I've never watched Horton play, I'm not gonna pretend that I have.
So you're saying that no player you haven't seen could be as good as anybody that you have seen? If you didn't see Gretzky or Orr play you couldn't vote for them?

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07-22-2004, 09:22 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meehan
Nicklas Lidstrom or Sergei Fedorov never were and never will be legendary players. Orr, Gretzky, Lemieux, Howe, Rocket; those are legendary players. Lidstrom and Fedorov aren't in that class.

Fedorov has/ hadalot of toolsbut i think his mind was somewhere else in anna land for many of his prime playing yrs!

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07-22-2004, 09:32 PM
  #32
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To say that Lidstrom will be ranked ahead of Chelios is insulting. Chelios is an incredible all-round force, likely one of the top 10 defencemen ever. Offensively gifted, he's also smart, a fierce competitor, an incredible leader and one tough ******* to play against. Watch the work he did on Bertuzzi two years ago in the playoffs at age 40.

As for ranking Lidstrom ahead of Coffey, your statement only shows your ignorance.

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07-22-2004, 10:27 PM
  #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Lander
Fedorov has/ hadalot of toolsbut i think his mind was somewhere else in anna land for many of his prime playing yrs!
Agreed. Talent wise Fedorov was one of the best ever. But it takes more then talent to be a legendary player.

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07-23-2004, 01:44 AM
  #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BM67
So you're saying that no player you haven't seen could be as good as anybody that you have seen? If you didn't see Gretzky or Orr play you couldn't vote for them?
stop being stupid!

I'm not saying the players I don't vote for can't possibly be better than who I do vote for, I'm just saying I have no business voting for them because I have no clue what their play was like.

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07-23-2004, 01:51 AM
  #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
stop being stupid!

I'm not saying the players I don't vote for can't possibly be better than who I do vote for, I'm just saying I have no business voting for them because I have no clue what their play was like.
Kmad is right. He didn't see who ever play so he's voting for the player is he comfortable voting for. Obviously people will vote for the great ones, but not alot of people saw Red Kelly, Doug Harvey, ETC... play! Some people might have never even heard of them(Dough Harvey the mayjor one).

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07-23-2004, 08:43 AM
  #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
stop being stupid!

I'm not saying the players I don't vote for can't possibly be better than who I do vote for, I'm just saying I have no business voting for them because I have no clue what their play was like.
So you're not saying they couldn't be better, but you don't care if they're better? It's a good thing you make it your business to vote for lesser players, rather than make it your business to learn about the other players on the list.

http://www.legendsofhockey.net/html/legendsplayer.htm

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07-23-2004, 12:26 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
stop being stupid!

take your own advice.

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07-23-2004, 02:48 PM
  #38
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Put Lidstrom in the era that Harvey and Kelly played in and we would be talking about Lidstrom as the 2nd best defenceman of all time.....thats how much better the game is today than it was then. And please, nobody say ''well you didn't see them play'' I've seen footage - Players of Doug Harvey's era wouldn't have a lick in the NHL today - and most likely wouldn't be good enough for the AHL. Now true, perhaps they didn't look as skilled because their equipment was crap.

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07-23-2004, 03:03 PM
  #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmad
I could argue that due to increased development in hockey infrastructure and higher standards of NHL calibre players, Lidstrom is better than all defensemen before 1950 (except maybe Red Kelly).
Lidstrom couldn't carry Eddie Shore's jockstrap.
If Lidstrom played in that era he would have been to afraid to step on the ice. Players were a lot tougher and meaner then they are now and they played with way crappier equipment. Most of today's players would spend most of the season on the injured list. I'll admit that Lidstrom is a great player and I have no problem with where he is on this list but if you think he is better then any dman before 1950 or 60 then you don't know much about hockey.

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07-23-2004, 03:11 PM
  #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi
Put Lidstrom in the era that Harvey and Kelly played in and we would be talking about Lidstrom as the 2nd best defenceman of all time.....thats how much better the game is today than it was then. And please, nobody say ''well you didn't see them play'' I've seen footage - Players of Doug Harvey's era wouldn't have a lick in the NHL today - and most likely wouldn't be good enough for the AHL. Now true, perhaps they didn't look as skilled because their equipment was crap.
How can you say the game is so much better today when there are 30 teams compared to 6 teams back then?
If there was 6 teams today only a handful of guys off each team would be in the league. The league today is watered down with guys who wouldn't have made the AHL back then and this makes today's stars seem a lot better.
Also the better equipment and training facilities they have now make a huge difference. Not to mention all the performance enhancing drugs they have now.

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07-23-2004, 03:16 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaaaaB's
Lidstrom couldn't carry Eddie Shore's jockstrap.
If Lidstrom played in that era he would have been to afraid to step on the ice. Players were a lot tougher and meaner then they are now and they played with way crappier equipment. Most of today's players would spend most of the season on the injured list. I'll admit that Lidstrom is a great player and I have no problem with where he is on this list but if you think he is better then any dman before 1950 or 60 then you don't know much about hockey.
I could argue that Eddie Shore would look like an average defenceman in todays game, but I wont.

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07-23-2004, 03:34 PM
  #42
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Eddie shore was a 5'11 player over 60 yrs ago he was a giant of a player back then and same size as bourque coffey willson etc thus i beleive hecoudl dominate in todays game. In fact if he was 20 today Im sure he would be about 6'4.

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Awards

1932-33 Hart Memorial Trophy
1934-35 Hart Memorial Trophy
1935-36 Hart Memorial Trophy
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i dont think they had a norris trophy yet

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07-23-2004, 03:59 PM
  #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi
Put Lidstrom in the era that Harvey and Kelly played in and we would be talking about Lidstrom as the 2nd best defenceman of all time.....thats how much better the game is today than it was then. And please, nobody say ''well you didn't see them play'' I've seen footage - Players of Doug Harvey's era wouldn't have a lick in the NHL today - and most likely wouldn't be good enough for the AHL. Now true, perhaps they didn't look as skilled because their equipment was crap.
Strange that nobody has matched Bobby Hull's shot or skating speed records yet. You would think that better players with better skates and better sticks would have no problem doing that.

They difference between then and now isn't so much in top-end talent as in depth of talent. There has been more change in the average size of players than in the average talent of players. There are many more great slap shots around the league now, but there probably fewer great backhands than there was then.

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07-23-2004, 04:04 PM
  #44
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dont forget they had only wood sticks in those days

now adays avergae payers have hard shots because of technology

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07-23-2004, 05:11 PM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Lander
Eddie shore was a 5'11 player over 60 yrs ago he was a giant of a player back then and same size as bourque coffey willson etc thus i beleive hecoudl dominate in todays game. In fact if he was 20 today Im sure he would be about 6'4.
I dont understand. You think if Shore was born in 1980 he would magically grow an extra 5 inches?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Lander
dont forget they had only wood sticks in those days

now adays avergae payers have hard shots because of technology
The size of goaltender pads now a days and the defensive traps makes it much, much harder to perform. Watching clips of hockey in the 60's - even the 70's, it shows players streaking down the wing, firing a slapper from the blueline, and scoring. It was like they were shooting at a giant seive.

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07-23-2004, 05:16 PM
  #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi
I dont understand. You think if Shore was born in 1980 he would magically grow an extra 5 inches?



The size of goaltender pads now a days and the defensive traps makes it much, much harder to perform. Watching clips of hockey in the 60's - even the 70's, it shows players streaking down the wing, firing a slapper from the blueline, and scoring. It was like they were shooting at a giant seive.

great players change the game no matter what time they played.

To bad your to ignorant of that. His era doesnt take away from hisgreatness He could had dominatedin the 80's and 90's too im sure!

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07-23-2004, 05:30 PM
  #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Leaf Lander
great players change the game no matter what time they played.

To bad your to ignorant of that. His era doesnt take away from hisgreatness He could had dominatedin the 80's and 90's too im sure!
Maybe he would have, maybe he wouldn't. Its easy to say if some of the old-timers had the training the players have now a days they would be just as good. But someone could turn that around and say if Peter Forsberg played in the early 80's he would put up 200 points like Gretzky did. Both have something in common: BS.

And you still didn't answer my question of why would Shore have grown an extre 5 inches?

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07-23-2004, 07:33 PM
  #48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi
The size of goaltender pads now a days and the defensive traps makes it much, much harder to perform. Watching clips of hockey in the 60's - even the 70's, it shows players streaking down the wing, firing a slapper from the blueline, and scoring. It was like they were shooting at a giant seive.
And you can still see that today, so what is your point? Scoring in the 60's was only marginally higher than it is today, so it's not as if they scored every time up the ice.

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07-24-2004, 12:12 PM
  #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by monster_bertuzzi
I could argue that Eddie Shore would look like an average defenceman in todays game, but I wont.
Once again you prove that you know nothing about hockey. This is one of the stupidest comments I've ever heard. Funny how in one post you wanted Joe Malone added and mentioned how great he was but you think Shore a 4 time Hart trophy winner would be an average denfenceman today.
Dumbest comment since you called the Selke trophy the Seltzer trophy and said it was meaningless. Also the fact that you had to ask if the Richards were brothers proves you know nothing about oldtime hockey or hockey in general.
So lets here your arguement for Shore being an average dman today because I could use a good laugh. :lol

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07-24-2004, 12:50 PM
  #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaaaaB's
How can you say the game is so much better today when there are 30 teams compared to 6 teams back then?
If there was 6 teams today only a handful of guys off each team would be in the league. The league today is watered down with guys who wouldn't have made the AHL back then and this makes today's stars seem a lot better.
Also the better equipment and training facilities they have now make a huge difference. Not to mention all the performance enhancing drugs they have now.
Well, the talent pool is not only much broader, but you could argue that the game is also a lot more refined, especially on the blueline and in goal.

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