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Why Rebuildng Will Not Succeed

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Old
07-22-2004, 03:34 PM
  #26
Fletch
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Without those guys...

writing off expenses, hockey would not survive. Revenues would be down even further. Europe would retain more players. Cities wouldn't be erecting arenas without the support. While it seems evil, it's nonetheless quite necessary. It's less pervasive in many cities (lot of average joes sitting in lower level seats in Chicago), but it's a necesssary evil, kind of like lawyers and accountants.

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07-22-2004, 03:41 PM
  #27
dedalus
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragfan
Regarding the free agent remark: Which team has signed any big name players?
Toronto: Belfour
Pittsburgh: Recchi
Ottawa: Hasek
LA: Conroy
Minn: Rolston
Phoenix: Ricci
NJ: Matvichuk

In years past, all of those would have been tempting targets for the Rangers.

This isn't to deny your basic point. I'm rather mistrustful of Sather/Dolan myself, but there is a bit of evidence to suggest this time might actually be different.

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Old
07-22-2004, 07:13 PM
  #28
Son of Steinbrenner
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotiu22
Maybe casual dress, but the point is still the same. it's the people who goto the game because they got the tickets for free. they may act like they are into the games (and some may very well be), but when the game is running late...its 2-2 with 4 minutes to go in the third period, they get up and LEAVE so they can catch their train. pathetic.

I have huge problem with company's being able to write off season tickets as a business expense. that is ridiculous. but a little off topic... woops..
i have never paid for tickets to any sporting event other than my jets season tickets. I sit in the Merill Lynch or Fleet Specialist unit seats and have since i was a kid. I'm posting on a Rangers message board in the middle of summer. Are you saying i'm not a real fan because i take free tickets? I have never left a game early to catch a train but people i go to games with do. You ever wonder why they leave early? I can think of two reasons. Getting home at 11:30 instead 12:30 on a week night when you have to get up at 5:30 is a huge deal. The second reason is people have families to go home too. I can think of many times my brother has left a Rangers or Jets monday night game early to spend time with his family or tuck his kids into bed. As much as i love the Rangers, Yankees, and Jets they are not the most important thing in my life.

You can't judge a book by its cover and you can't judge what rangers fan are "real" fans or just casual fans. If they are in the building for the game they are a hockey fan. If somebody offered you free tickets i'm sure you wouldn't turn them down.

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Old
07-22-2004, 07:15 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sjb3599
They already stopped coming. That's why there were are so many empty seats at ice-level. The corporations are still paying for them though, and whether the suits actually show up or not is of no import to Dolan.
BS. Empty seats means nobody is going to the concession stand. Empty seats means nobody is buying a rangers jersey. I know parking isn't free. Maybe you forgot about that

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Old
07-22-2004, 08:00 PM
  #30
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This is the first year you started rebuilding. But this isn't the first year where you had high picks, or atleast a chance to pick up a decent player.

98-Manny Malhotra- Very very good defensive player, you guys made him your poster child and expected offensive output from him. From a guy whose highest output in JUNIORS was 16 goals.

99-Pavel Brendl- Very very marketable with the numbers he has put up. But what else can he do? And can he do it in the NHL? Almost identical to Bonsignoire.

99-Lundmark- Brought up through the system right (2 years juniors, 1.5 minors). Messed with in the NHL. 3-5 mins a night next to other team's waiver wire droppings.

00- Its magic. Just disappeared in Brendl's gluttonous baby fat.

01-Excellent pick in Blackburn, drafted THE bpa, and filled a need. Can't argue with the selection. But the Handling though? Overworking a 19 yearold goalie, then benching him for months. Not giving him a goalie coach to assist his game, not watching his training.

02-Just like Brian Leetch now, this 02 is no longer a part of the rangers.

03-Hugh has huge potential, but was drafted by the worst possible team for him to grow. Great marketing tool though. Could be the next Bertuzzi. If he is brought up right. Project, when was the last project involving a player under 30 that worked for you? Hell when was a project over 30 worked?

04-AlMo, great goalie, but you've got two of those, and pretty much crap everywhere else. So now you've got three elite goalies, and how many elite centres, wingers, defensemen?

Elite players can be found anywhere in the draft, but the most likely ones will be found high. Safest and higher upside go in the lottery slots. But Elite players can be found a few spots after, they just have to be molded a little. So far you are just looking to see how things turn out. And you have Tampa, Columbus, Carolina and Florida trying to do some of that molding. Ironically one just won the cup (not with any help from you, but they still won), one was a finalist and is still building, One going to turn out into a powerhouse, and one on the verge of aquiring major assests to the ones that they already have.

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Old
07-22-2004, 08:21 PM
  #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fotiu22
Maybe casual dress, but the point is still the same. it's the people who goto the game because they got the tickets for free. they may act like they are into the games (and some may very well be), but when the game is running late...its 2-2 with 4 minutes to go in the third period, they get up and LEAVE so they can catch their train. pathetic.

I have huge problem with company's being able to write off season tickets as a business expense. that is ridiculous. but a little off topic... woops..
When you live in Suffolk, you have to catch that train if you want to go to bed at a decent hour. I do pay for my tickets, though.

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Old
07-23-2004, 06:40 AM
  #32
Mr. Lack
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragfan
I know everyone is very excited about the rebuilding process, which is nascent for us all, but there are several reasons why the rebuilding won't succeed or last.

1. Temptation of Big Name Players Too Great For Sather. Quick, who was the last high ticket player that the Rangers didn't trade for? Unlike Edmonton, Sather hsa resources that he never had before, and he doesn't know what to do with it. He's held off for some time, but one has to wonder how long it will last. He will think that "Look at how many prospects w have. Trading a few won't hurt." This menality has plagued the Rangers for the last seven years, and will continue to do so until Sather is canned.

2. Dolan will see all the empty seats in the garden that are a result of rebuilding and subsequently sucking worse. Consequently, he will probably push Sather into fielding a marketable team. Face it, right now, as it stands, our team is one of the most paradoxical and least marketable teams. Besides Jagr and Holik, who else is a superstar that even the casual fans would have heard of?
So Sather, even if he doesn't want to, will probably have to start signing big name players.

3. The rebuilding process won't be successful because this team has no direction. On one hand, we have Kasparitius, Holik, and Jagr, who will take up ~18 million dollars of the payroll. I don't have the figures in front of me, but I doubt if the other players combined salary is close to the 18 million that those three make.
So we have a bunch of young players, and ex-superstars. It is highly likely that the vets are going to be frustrated on a rebuilding team. As soon as Washington started sucking, Jagr hit the road. Who says he won't do so again?

4. Lack of elite prospect. Look at every single rebuilding or ex rebuilding team has a star youngin they can turn to. Columbus has Nash ( and Zherdev and Klesla). Atlanta has Kovalchuk. Minnesota has Gaborik. Who do we have? If we don't have an elite prospect/young superstar, the rebuilding process won't look as exciting for the casual fans, and subsequently, they will lose interest.

I have stuck with this team through thick and thin, and I want this process to definitely happen, but I don't see how the plan will last, and if it even lasts, I don't think it will be so successful.
1. I tend to agree with your point here. I think there will be so many players made available after the CBA comes down that Sather is going to get real tempted.

2. Dolan is the main "interuption" in our rebuilding plans, no doubt. All one can hope for is that Renney and Sather have convinced Dolan to stay out of things.

3. I'll wait till this year to decide if the Rangers have direction or not. Give Renney a chance.

4. We don't need an ELITE prospect to get back to being a Solid Franchise. Right now, depth and attitude has to be what brings us back to respectablity. Perhaps we are lucky enough to get an elite prospect to build around in this year's draft.

We still don't know that we don't have him already? Maybe it's Montoya? It worked for the Devils.

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Old
07-24-2004, 01:05 AM
  #33
mikefavata
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Plain and simple.

What the Rangers need to do next season be as bad as they can possibly be and come in last.

Sucking big time next year = Sidney Crosby.

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Old
07-25-2004, 01:30 PM
  #34
DarthSather99
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Plain and simple. This Ranger rebuild will succeed because of Sather last four years failing. Signing free agents has failed, even by his own admission. He says now that you need to build with young players. If he goes back to signing free agents he will be fired. I think already Dolan has limitied his GM abilities.

It all comes down to playing competitive. Free agents didn't compete nightly. Young players fighting for a NHL career will compete. The Rangers will play better than most think this year, if there is a season.

I hope we play competitive but get into the Crosby Lottery mix. I think Gretzky really wants this kid.

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Old
07-25-2004, 02:47 PM
  #35
True Blue
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Steinbrenner
You ever wonder why they leave early? I can think of two reasons. Getting home at 11:30 instead 12:30 on a week night when you have to get up at 5:30 is a huge deal. The second reason is people have families to go home too. I can think of many times my brother has left a Rangers or Jets monday night game early to spend time with his family or tuck his kids into bed. As much as i love the Rangers, Yankees, and Jets they are not the most important thing in my life.
SOS hits the nail right on the head. I've left games early for EXACTLY those reasons. Catching the 9:38, as opposed to the 10:40, is a HUGE difference. Getting home before 11:30 is a HUGE difference than 12:45, especially when you consider that usually, the next day is a work day. And yeah, I'd like to see my wife and daughter for a bit.
Having a white-collar job, does not make one "not a real fan". Just means that there are some things in the world that are slightly more important than overtime of a Rangers game.

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