HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Western Conference > Pacific Division > Vancouver Canucks
Notices

2011-12 HFBoards Yahoo Fantasy Premier Keeper League - Draft: Oct 2nd - 6pm

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old
09-21-2011, 12:52 PM
  #926
parabola
༼ つ ಥ_ಥ ༽つỏ̷͖͈̞̩͎̻̫̫
 
parabola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ಠ_ಠ
Posts: 38,672
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrockH View Post
Sorry, but any two members can say "you know what'd be cool, if we added/removed rule XXX." It's ridiculous to expect the commissioner to message you every time someone says something significant in the thread. You were messaged as soon as it became an official motion, and with the proposed CBA tweak you will then have ample opportunity to raise any issues. If you want a message everytime someone mentions a change that could become official down the road, that's just absurd. If two people are in chat and one of them says "I wish we couldn't protect more than 2 goalies," do you expect the commissioner to send you a message saying "by the way, so and so wishes we couldn't protect more than 2 goalies...there's a 5% chance this may manifest itself as an official rule change request 3 weeks from now, so we thought we should PM you?" Not only is that unreasonable, but it creates this whole gray area regarding just what is deemed a significant enough conversation to merit a PM.

There is and always has been an expectation that all league members will monitor this thread. I understand there are a lot frivolities in it, but hey, you of all people (as a mod) must have been aware of that before you joined the league. No one is going to force you to join in the social aspect (though I'm sure it would be encouraged), but if you fail to even skim the thread for information of interest then I think you do so at your own peril.
If it's significant enough for a poll then there should be a PM saying "hey in a week we're going to have a vote on this" then I and everyone else have a week to discuss everything, and no one misses any discussion.

I refuse to monitor this thread non-stop during the offseason when 90% of the time it's worthless discussion. Figure out a way to notify people of intent to create a vote in advance or don't do **** like this during the regular season. Whether that means coming up with a day where we can start discussion for a week, or PMing people... Whatever it is, something needs to be done.

__________________
parabola is offline  
Old
09-21-2011, 01:01 PM
  #927
CCF23
Registered User
 
CCF23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Richmond, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,455
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to CCF23
Quote:
Originally Posted by parabola View Post
If it's significant enough for a poll then there should be a PM saying "hey in a week we're going to have a vote on this" then I and everyone else have a week to discuss everything, and no one misses any discussion.

I refuse to monitor this thread non-stop during the offseason when 90% of the time it's worthless discussion. Figure out a way to notify people of intent to create a vote in advance or don't do **** like this during the regular season. Whether that means coming up with a day where we can start discussion for a week, or PMing people... Whatever it is, something needs to be done.
This is absolute crap for a couple reasons.

1. In this league it's expected you follow the thread...If you can't or don't want to do that, leave the league...besides, as a mod, isn't that kind of your job anyway?

2. You told me you had seen the post where I had told everyone we were putting it to a vote, and you said NOTHING. It went to a vote, it passed. I don't know why you continue to whine. It's becoming tiresome and you're the only one that seems to take issue with the way this process worked.

CCF23 is offline  
Old
09-21-2011, 01:53 PM
  #928
Tiranis
Moderator
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Toronto, ON
Country: Czech_ Republic
Posts: 20,187
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by parabola View Post
If it's significant enough for a poll then there should be a PM saying "hey in a week we're going to have a vote on this" then I and everyone else have a week to discuss everything, and no one misses any discussion.

I refuse to monitor this thread non-stop during the offseason when 90% of the time it's worthless discussion. Figure out a way to notify people of intent to create a vote in advance or don't do **** like this during the regular season. Whether that means coming up with a day where we can start discussion for a week, or PMing people... Whatever it is, something needs to be done.
Given that you're the only one that has a problem with it, I would say that absolutely nothing needs to be done. I was in the middle of a move to Montreal, barely had internet access and somehow managed to keep up with what was going on. Honestly, it only takes max 10 minutes to read a week's worth of posts in this thread.

Tiranis is online now  
Old
09-21-2011, 02:04 PM
  #929
parabola
༼ つ ಥ_ಥ ༽つỏ̷͖͈̞̩͎̻̫̫
 
parabola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ಠ_ಠ
Posts: 38,672
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCF23 View Post
This is absolute crap for a couple reasons.

1. In this league it's expected you follow the thread...If you can't or don't want to do that, leave the league...besides, as a mod, isn't that kind of your job anyway?

2. You told me you had seen the post where I had told everyone we were putting it to a vote, and you said NOTHING. It went to a vote, it passed. I don't know why you continue to whine. It's becoming tiresome and you're the only one that seems to take issue with the way this process worked.
1. If you wont do a simple thing like PM people or come up with some notification, that would benefit everyone, then maybe I will leave the league (not likely though). I think it's stupid you absolutely refuse to do something that is so simple and yet so beneficial. Don't bring mod stuff into this, if you want to discuss that part of your post I can PM you. I will just say you're wrong about that.

2. I saw your post after the fact. I never stated I saw it before the vote. I'm not whining, i'm discussing why I think the way the vote was handled + the result was crap. If it's becoming tiresome for you, maybe you should step down from your position in the league? I think it's part of your responsibility to hear people out and discuss things like this. I'm allowed to have an opinion.

I think if you took a vote on having notifications, even the people who have no problem with reading the thread would vote yes on it because there is literally zero downside to it.

parabola is offline  
Old
09-21-2011, 02:28 PM
  #930
CCF23
Registered User
 
CCF23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Richmond, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,455
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to CCF23
This all stems from the fact that you weren't following the thread. Follow the thread, this stuff won't happen. Period. Our members are expected to keep up with the thread at all times. If you're going to be away, or have another reason why you can't, state it, and you will be kept abreast of league happenings, other than that it is expected you're checking in to keep up to date with what - if anything - is happening in the league. It's not like I made that post, and then the vote happened 2 days later, either. You had 10 days to read that post, and the subsequent discussion that followed it, and didn't. Hell, we were talking about it before I even mentioned we were going to put it to a vote, and not once did you chime in. We want your input into the league, but I'm not going to implement a "notification" system that essentially allows our members to be lazy.

Read the thread, you'll know what's going on. End of story.

I should also add that while that may seem like a bit of a tough stance when it comes to something so simple as a PM notification, you have to understand that we've built this league on this core group of members who have set a standard of keeping up with the thread and being active, so you're going to be held to the same standard.


Last edited by CCF23: 09-21-2011 at 02:34 PM.
CCF23 is offline  
Old
09-21-2011, 02:34 PM
  #931
parabola
༼ つ ಥ_ಥ ༽つỏ̷͖͈̞̩͎̻̫̫
 
parabola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ಠ_ಠ
Posts: 38,672
vCash: 500
Whatever. The problem actually stems from this topic having worthless discussion a lot of the time which made me not want to keep up with it.

I still don't see myself reading this thread often in the offseason, and if you wont implement anything to make it easier to keep up with things that go on in the thread so be it.

I've said what I wanted, i'll move on.

parabola is offline  
Old
09-21-2011, 02:35 PM
  #932
CRDragon
\_(シ)_/
 
CRDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,565
vCash: 500
We're spoiled enough to have moderators in our league to mass PM people.
But that doesn't mean we're going to take advantage of its use over something we can just discuss over the boards.

CRDragon is online now  
Old
09-21-2011, 02:39 PM
  #933
CCF23
Registered User
 
CCF23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Richmond, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,455
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to CCF23
We should decide in the next day or two what we're doing regarding the draft time and if we're going to move it for CRD.

CCF23 is offline  
Old
09-21-2011, 02:43 PM
  #934
parabola
༼ つ ಥ_ಥ ༽つỏ̷͖͈̞̩͎̻̫̫
 
parabola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ಠ_ಠ
Posts: 38,672
vCash: 500
I cant do Monday or Friday. Any other days are fine.

parabola is offline  
Old
09-21-2011, 02:43 PM
  #935
BrockH
HFBoards Sponsor
 
BrockH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 2,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by parabola View Post
If it's significant enough for a poll then there should be a PM saying "hey in a week we're going to have a vote on this" then I and everyone else have a week to discuss everything, and no one misses any discussion. discussion for a week, or PMing people... Whatever it is, something needs to be done.
There's no need for a poll though. Read the CBA. I don't have to post anything in the thread to propose a rule change. I can just find 2 people in chat, say "do you think this is a good idea and would you support my proposing it," and then that very same day propose the rule change and have it put to a vote.

So suppose 3 rule changes involve discussion, and then you get blindsided by one like this (that never occurs in the forums until it's going to a vote). What happens then? Are you even more upset? Or are you now saying that there should be a mandatory polling period for opinions on every rule change prior to determining whether the issue is goin to a vote? In which case, again, propose it as a change to the CBA. There are avenues to facilitate change and you aren't using any of them.

And supposing you did make the "polling for opinions" a mandatory change in the CBA, I fail to understand how that differs significantly from my already set forth proposal of simply having a 1 week discussion period, with PM notification, prior to opening the vote. I suppose it allows for the rule to be refined over the course of the week? Okay, fine, then with the rule change I've already suggested (the mandatory 1 week discussion period), I would also propose that we include the guideline that the rule's proposer be allowed to refine their rule change proposal based on league input during the first 5 days of the discussion period (so essentially it's 5 days of discussion/refinement, and then 2 days of straight discussion on a concrete rule change). The only difference that I can see is you want subjective guidelines that have gray areas and aren't clear, whereas I'm trying to propose a concrete procedure to avoid misunderstandings and the ensuing whining.

That, and I don't understand why I keep having to come up with rule changes to keep you happy. Show some initiative and come up with a solution instead of just complaining. Like I said, constructive criticism is welcome but your hindsight based condemnation of a process that you were welcome to partake in is frustrating.

And also, figuring that there are ~10 posts per day in this thread (930 in 3 months) and it takes about 3 seconds to skim a post, are you really telling me that you can't spare 30 seconds per day to see if you've missed anything important? Either that's just plain lazy, or else you're some sort of high profile lawyer who bills four figures per hour.

BrockH is offline  
Old
09-21-2011, 02:45 PM
  #936
parabola
༼ つ ಥ_ಥ ༽つỏ̷͖͈̞̩͎̻̫̫
 
parabola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ಠ_ಠ
Posts: 38,672
vCash: 500
I'd be fine with your proposal Brock, but it sounds like CCF/CRD for whatever reason aren't. I don't feel like discussing it anymore if it's just going to be in vain.

parabola is offline  
Old
09-21-2011, 02:46 PM
  #937
BrockH
HFBoards Sponsor
 
BrockH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 2,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CCF23 View Post
We should decide in the next day or two what we're doing regarding the draft time and if we're going to move it for CRD.
Can I suggest a mass PM (not sure if one went out already), and provided there are no objections we delay it to the later start time on the same date (no later than 8:30PST though please, I'd like to be in bed at a reasonable hour).

BrockH is offline  
Old
09-21-2011, 02:48 PM
  #938
JannikAtTheDisco
No panic it's Jannik
 
JannikAtTheDisco's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: a van in vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 12,724
vCash: 500
Sorry guys I have hockey at 8:20, meaning I'll have to leave the house at 7:45. 6:00 is the latest I can do it on Sunday. Or like 10:30...lol

JannikAtTheDisco is offline  
Old
09-21-2011, 02:52 PM
  #939
parabola
༼ つ ಥ_ಥ ༽つỏ̷͖͈̞̩͎̻̫̫
 
parabola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ಠ_ಠ
Posts: 38,672
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrockH View Post
Can I suggest a mass PM
We don't do this, remember. People should be able to read the thread as it only takes about 30 seconds a day to read the thread.


parabola is offline  
Old
09-21-2011, 02:52 PM
  #940
Lucbourdon
Kefka cheers for Van
 
Lucbourdon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Country: Canada
Posts: 37,251
vCash: 50
Finally got nhl 12 on ps3


Last edited by Lucbourdon: 09-21-2011 at 03:24 PM.
Lucbourdon is offline  
Old
09-21-2011, 02:53 PM
  #941
BrockH
HFBoards Sponsor
 
BrockH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 2,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by parabola View Post
I'd be fine with your proposal Brock, but it sounds like CCF/CRD for whatever reason aren't. I don't feel like discussing it anymore if it's just going to be in vain.
I'm not sure about that, but regardless CCF and CRD don't determine what's in the CBA. The league as a whole does, and it's done via the guidelines in the CBA. Maybe I was mistaken in my earlier thoughts that this was just a refinement, but it could be put to formal vote as long as 3 league members are in favour of the change.

The risk of course is that we are foisting more work upon our commissioners, who volunteer to handle those duties, and if they feel we're asking too much of them they can always step down. From that perspective, I think it advisable (though not required by the CBA) to at least solicit their...tentative acceptance of the league's decision on a matter like this (i.e. if the vote goes the wrong way and they don't like the result, would they still be willing to fulfill the duties). Again, that step wouldn't be required, but I think our commissioners do an admirable job and would not want to lose a resource over a non-vital rule change.

BrockH is offline  
Old
09-21-2011, 02:53 PM
  #942
ubiquitous
More like Shredder
 
ubiquitous's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Prince George, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,483
vCash: 500
Oh my God. Lol ugh just pick a day and a time! Haha

ubiquitous is offline  
Old
09-21-2011, 02:55 PM
  #943
BrockH
HFBoards Sponsor
 
BrockH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 2,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by parabola View Post
We don't do this, remember. People should be able to read the thread as it only takes about 30 seconds a day to read the thread.

I know that was said in jest, but for the record, we do (or at least have) in cases where a vote has been called. In this case, unanimous approval is a must since we are outright breaking the CBA (it specifically says that the draft is locked in and cannot be changed once we're 2 weeks from the draft date).

BrockH is offline  
Old
09-21-2011, 02:55 PM
  #944
CCF23
Registered User
 
CCF23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Richmond, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,455
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to CCF23
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrockH View Post
There's no need for a poll though. Read the CBA. I don't have to post anything in the thread to propose a rule change. I can just find 2 people in chat, say "do you think this is a good idea and would you support my proposing it," and then that very same day propose the rule change and have it put to a vote.

So suppose 3 rule changes involve discussion, and then you get blindsided by one like this (that never occurs in the forums until it's going to a vote). What happens then? Are you even more upset? Or are you now saying that there should be a mandatory polling period for opinions on every rule change prior to determining whether the issue is goin to a vote? In which case, again, propose it as a change to the CBA. There are avenues to facilitate change and you aren't using any of them.

And supposing you did make the "polling for opinions" a mandatory change in the CBA, I fail to understand how that differs significantly from my already set forth proposal of simply having a 1 week discussion period, with PM notification, prior to opening the vote. I suppose it allows for the rule to be refined over the course of the week? Okay, fine, then with the rule change I've already suggested (the mandatory 1 week discussion period), I would also propose that we include the guideline that the rule's proposer be allowed to refine their rule change proposal based on league input during the first 5 days of the discussion period (so essentially it's 5 days of discussion/refinement, and then 2 days of straight discussion on a concrete rule change). The only difference that I can see is you want subjective guidelines that have gray areas and aren't clear, whereas I'm trying to propose a concrete procedure to avoid misunderstandings and the ensuing whining.

That, and I don't understand why I keep having to come up with rule changes to keep you happy. Show some initiative and come up with a solution instead of just complaining. Like I said, constructive criticism is welcome but your hindsight based condemnation of a process that you were welcome to partake in is frustrating.

And also, figuring that there are ~10 posts per day in this thread (930 in 3 months) and it takes about 3 seconds to skim a post, are you really telling me that you can't spare 30 seconds per day to see if you've missed anything important? Either that's just plain lazy, or else you're some sort of high profile lawyer who bills four figures per hour.
This is pretty much why I don't have the time of day for the complaints I'm hearing. We have avenues in the CBA to go about getting a vote for having a rule changed.

Get some support, and we'll have a vote. Don't whine about it...If you don't like how something is being done, and there are others that will support you, then do something about it. This is the whole reason we split from Pauser, so we could hand the power of the league to its members. If you have enough league support, you'll be heard...If not, then what does it matter? It's about what the league wants.

CCF23 is offline  
Old
09-21-2011, 02:58 PM
  #945
BrockH
HFBoards Sponsor
 
BrockH's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Toronto, ON
Posts: 2,543
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SelKesler View Post
Sorry guys I have hockey at 8:20, meaning I'll have to leave the house at 7:45. 6:00 is the latest I can do it on Sunday. Or like 10:30...lol
Damn, that sucks. Sorry CRD, I dunno how this can work though then. I have an end of year party/awards ceremony for my inline speed skating club on the Sunday in Toronto, and I'm on the board of directors and organizing the catering so I pretty much have to attend. I can't do any earlier than 6PST on Sunday (end of year thing starts at 2PST and will run at least 2 hours, plus the drive is a little over an hour). Obviously 10:30 is way too late for those of us in EST.

While I'm open to changing the day, I think that's opening a whole other can of worms this close to the date...you might just be SOL here.

BrockH is offline  
Old
09-21-2011, 03:00 PM
  #946
CRDragon
\_(シ)_/
 
CRDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,565
vCash: 500
Ok we'll keep it at 6. I'll figure something out.

CRDragon is online now  
Old
09-21-2011, 03:01 PM
  #947
parabola
༼ つ ಥ_ಥ ༽つỏ̷͖͈̞̩͎̻̫̫
 
parabola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ಠ_ಠ
Posts: 38,672
vCash: 500
TBH I never thought it would pass which is why I didn't say anything to begin with. CCF even said after I first brought up my surprise of the vote that he didn't think it was going to pass.

parabola is offline  
Old
09-21-2011, 03:04 PM
  #948
CCF23
Registered User
 
CCF23's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Richmond, BC
Country: Canada
Posts: 14,455
vCash: 500
Send a message via MSN to CCF23
Quote:
Originally Posted by parabola View Post
TBH I never thought it would pass which is why I didn't say anything to begin with. CCF even said after I first brought up my surprise of the vote that he didn't think it was going to pass.
Well then that's your fault I guess. I didn't think it was going to pass either.

PS: ignore the PM I sent. The draft is staying at 6 because we won't get unanimous support for another time.

CCF23 is offline  
Old
09-21-2011, 03:15 PM
  #949
CRDragon
\_(シ)_/
 
CRDragon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Vancouver
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,565
vCash: 500
I agree to the 1 week discussion period over the mass PMing system.

Having the discussing period allows every member to read what other thoughts are, instead of it being hidden in the responses from PMs.

CRDragon is online now  
Old
09-21-2011, 03:22 PM
  #950
parabola
༼ つ ಥ_ಥ ༽つỏ̷͖͈̞̩͎̻̫̫
 
parabola's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: ಠ_ಠ
Posts: 38,672
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CRDragon View Post
I agree to the 1 week discussion period over the mass PMing system.

Having the discussing period allows every member to read what other thoughts are, instead of it being hidden in the responses from PMs.
Works for me.

parabola is offline  
Closed Thread

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 10:20 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.