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Habs to Offer Hamrlik a Contract? (Yyyyikes!) (UPD: Offered 1-yr contract post #683)

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Old
06-22-2011, 02:41 PM
  #251
habfan1968
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Spacek +9
Hamrlik +6

any reason we should not slot these two in with limited minutes.

Let them play 12 mins per game and teach the younger guys. They are great to have in case of injuries and are steady Dmen.

Wiz would be great but PK will give you the big shot on the PP and Markov can still QB the PP. Weber can be the third PMD. You have at least 3 PMD and 4 defensive D.

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06-22-2011, 02:53 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by buddahsmoka1 View Post
You are obviously watching with some kind of biased eye then. Because, he was in fact by in large our best defensemen last regular season. Here is a guy who is what 38 years old? And he steps up and plays first pairing minutes for a huge chunk of the year and eats them up like they are nothing. He finished at a +6 for christ sakes. Did he make mistakes? Of course, every defensemen does, especially one who is over-exposed. The guy has a good outlet pass, is experienced, knows how to play defense. The guy hasn't gotten less than 26 points in the last THIRTEEN SEASONS. A lot of people forget that he was our leading defensive scorer last playoffs with 9 assists in 19 games. And he seemingly never gets injured.

The guy is about as reliable a defensemen in the NHL as you can have. The guy has been rock solid his entire career, no matter where he played. Put this guy on the 2nd pairing with limited PK and PP time, and he is a dime for you.
How do you figure? Because he finished +6? Spacek finished +9. Even Wisniewski (sp) finished +4 with the Habs in just over half a season. He plays lots of minutes I agree, but that was out of necessity. Hal Gil, Subban (a rookie), and Wisniewski all played big minutes as well.

He got almost half of his points on the PP and that included a period when (inexplicably) he was used on the first unit instead of Subban. He was even taken off the PK near the end of the season. Oh and btw at 38, he is not going to get any better.

I am not saying that the Habs should not look to replace him because I sincerely believe that a team with 2 d-men coming off knee surgeries, 3 d-men with less than 200 combined NHL games played, and 2 d-men over 36 should not only rely on carrying 7 into the season.
What I am saying is that I would rather pay a younger, faster (or at least tougher) defenseman more money than paying Hamrlik 3 million. There are no game breaking forwards available in free agency this year and trading for one will be very difficult unless we are willing to part with one of our studs. So why not take advantage of the depth of the defense UFA market to strengthen that area of your team? Because the Habs cannot play a "puck possession", high paced game with Gill, Hamrlik, and Spacek banking a large majority of the pucks of glass most of the night. As the 8th dman, the Habs are missing either another puck mover / offensive type or a physical presence to back up Yemelin and make sure no one takes liberties on Price. Hamrlik is neither.

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06-22-2011, 02:55 PM
  #253
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I'd rather have Markov back next season for an 8M cap hit and risk the injury than have Hamrlik at 2.5M.

Stay. The. ****. Away.

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06-22-2011, 03:00 PM
  #254
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I dont have any problem with bringing back Hamrlik. He got 34 points, Wisniewski had 50 pts last year and about 25-30 pts per year the years before. Wiz is not really a necessary for the Habs. If we can sign Hamrlik to a 1-2 years deal for about 2,5M per, it would be great. Then, we should sign a D to play with Markov.

Markov - X
Hamrlik - Subban
Gill - Gorges
Spacek - Emelin

or

Markov - Gorges
Hamrlik - Subban
Gill - Weber
Emelein Spacek

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06-22-2011, 03:01 PM
  #255
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Originally Posted by habs_24x View Post
Naw, you know what i mean... Wiz is good for 50 pts and Hamr is good for 10-20 maybe depending how much he plays. Give or take
Hamrlik has averaged 30 pts/season throughout his tenure as a Hab. So now he's only good for 10ish?

His biggest flaw was having to assume a #1-2 role at times, which wasn't exactly his fault. Having him as a #4-5-6 with a bit less than 20 min/game in TOI could be exactly what the doctor has ordered.

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06-22-2011, 03:01 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by Goldthorpe View Post
Chipchura? Quailer? Leblanc?

It is possible to let other GM knows of ours needs and "leave the ball in their hand to come up with offers" without talking about it with the media.

LOL, you completely missed my point.

Whatever.
Chipchura is all of 6'2 and 200 lbs,
Leblanc 6'0 178
& Qualler is a 6'4 200 lb RW'er.

None of those guys were ever drafted as the 'answer' for a big center. Chipchura was drafted as a guy who could become a key third liner, with some upside.
Leblanc was drafted as a talented finesse center, who puts a game face on night in/out.
Qualler, a big RW'er drafted in the third round.

Honestly, the answer is they haven't. There hasnt been a big oversized center to develop in YEARS (going back at least 10 years).
Yes the trend has been going upwards, we are getting very talented, but size & Canadiens are still a big issue, and I for one think if they admitted that this is an issue. It's like a timestamp for parking. You get validated but only for a while. They go about their business, like the problem doesn't exist, yet it's a problem that has been around from day 1 of their administration (Back when Savvy and Timmins were brought in to place, replacing Reggie Houle).
Without claiming the ownership on the problem (by never saying it is a problem) Nobody questions them on it. Yes it's great for job security. But on ice performance suffers.
12 years ago... When Savard first CAME here... We were undersized, finesse (with not a whole lot of talent), soft, with a 1/2 decent defence crew that typically overrelied on their goalie to bail them out, because goal scoring was a premium.
Flash forward to now... We have SOME size, but definately not up the middle (where it counts most), we are a softer team still, with a lot more talented finesse players having came and went amongst the years, our defence, while upgraded to definately above average.. But now rely on the goalie still a bit too often to get ahead, because we arent scoring the goals.

In short, we have clearly improved, however the need for size up the middle has never been cleared up. The same thing gets said year in, year out. We are anemic on the goal production, and we are 'smurfs'.

I understood what you were saying about the fans mistakenly thinking he has this... But I think if the shoe fits, you gotta wear it. If the same problem arises, over 12 years... and they try addressing it in every other way but that one (Including firing 3 of the final 4 coaches for one) I would say it is EXACTLY the Fundamental Attribution Error flaw you describe.

Whatever? The man had a point. He explained his reasoning, he said the results on a long standing 'team' of individuals who are well looked after, tends to sway after the 7 year mark. They get lazy, distracted, or tired. The hiearchy of needs having been met, they dont go in to work with the same vigor as they once did. Typically, he's right too. A change of the brass, brings in fresh blood, and fresh ideas... Potentially good ones. Business outlooks can be effective when running a sports club, because that's exactly what it is... A business.

As I mentioned, TT & PG et. al. did do a very good job repairing this mess that they inherited. However, they are hitting the same wall, year in, year out. Loads of decent fast wingers, centers, 2 way d... lucky to get a Franchise Goalie along the way.. But little to no depth grit. as consistent from the first day.

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06-22-2011, 03:06 PM
  #257
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Most of you guys are nuts. You're assuming that they are offering him a big contract.
If they are then you have a right to dislike the offer.

The thing is, we don't know what the offer is yet, and even if the rumour of an offer is true.

What we do know are the facts:
1) Habs were decimated by injuries on defense last year (and no "decimated" is not a strong word for what happened).
2) Habs need solid, experienced depth on defense.
3) Habs have a lot of young d-men and you can never have enough experience on the back end.

That being said, why not offer Hamrlik a contract. He's said he wants to stay here and would accept a discount (at least I think he did. Didn't he?).
Give him a few million for 1 year and keep him as a #5-#6 and give him a mentoring role.

So if the price is right, then I say go for it. If not, then so be it.
But let's be honest, with all the injuries to the d-corps last year, Hamrlik was a warrior. He's as old as I am and I can't imagine playing pro sports at his level the way he did last year. If it weren't for him, the team probably wouldn't have made the playoffs.

Let's see what the offer is before we start complaining about how old and slow he is.

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06-22-2011, 03:07 PM
  #258
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I was all for it, but not anymore. I think Weber deserves an honest chance to make the team full-time.

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06-22-2011, 03:09 PM
  #259
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Originally Posted by capnk View Post
Most of you guys are nuts. You're assuming that they are offering him a big contract.
If they are then you have a right to dislike the offer.

The thing is, we don't know what the offer is yet, and even if the rumour of an offer is true.

What we do know are the facts:
1) Habs were decimated by injuries on defense last year (and no "decimated" is not a strong word for what happened).
2) Habs need solid, experienced depth on defense.
3) Habs have a lot of young d-men and you can never have enough experience on the back end.

That being said, why not offer Hamrlik a contract. He's said he wants to stay here and would accept a discount (at least I think he did. Didn't he?).
Give him a few million for 1 year and keep him as a #5-#6 and give him a mentoring role.

So if the price is right, then I say go for it. If not, then so be it.
But let's be honest, with all the injuries to the d-corps last year, Hamrlik was a warrior. He's as old as I am and I can't imagine playing pro sports at his level the way he did last year. If it weren't for him, the team probably wouldn't have made the playoffs.

Let's see what the offer is before we start complaining about how old and slow he is.
Some people should read this sentence over & over again until they actually realize how true it is.

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06-22-2011, 03:11 PM
  #260
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Originally Posted by capnk View Post
Most of you guys are nuts. You're assuming that they are offering him a big contract.
If they are then you have a right to dislike the offer.

The thing is, we don't know what the offer is yet, and even if the rumour of an offer is true.

What we do know are the facts:
1) Habs were decimated by injuries on defense last year (and no "decimated" is not a strong word for what happened).
2) Habs need solid, experienced depth on defense.
3) Habs have a lot of young d-men and you can never have enough experience on the back end.

That being said, why not offer Hamrlik a contract. He's said he wants to stay here and would accept a discount (at least I think he did. Didn't he?).
Give him a few million for 1 year and keep him as a #5-#6 and give him a mentoring role.

So if the price is right, then I say go for it. If not, then so be it.
But let's be honest, with all the injuries to the d-corps last year, Hamrlik was a warrior. He's as old as I am and I can't imagine playing pro sports at his level the way he did last year. If it weren't for him, the team probably wouldn't have made the playoffs.

Let's see what the offer is before we start complaining about how old and slow he is.
Totally agree with this. For a decent price bring back Hammer. Any one of the top 4 guys goes down with injury you have a guy that can step in and eat up some minutes. Call up Dias and let him play the #6 role etc.. Having our bases covered before we start out instead of overpaying to fix it later. Makes some sense no?

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06-22-2011, 03:12 PM
  #261
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a big defenseman that can play 20 minutes a night for 2-2.5 million dollars is a good deal.

hammer did a good job filling in for markovs injuries in the last 2 seasons and is still very useful as long as you don't overplay him. keep him in the 18 minute range and he'll fit right in as a 2nd/3rd pairing guy.

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06-22-2011, 03:13 PM
  #262
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Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
Some people should read this sentence over & over again until they actually realize how true it is.
And he's now one year older, with more wear and tear on him.

We already have two old slow guys, we don't need a third. More work for Subban for nothing, because he will be carrying these old farts this year.

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06-22-2011, 03:13 PM
  #263
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Better to have a chip on ones shoulders than nothing at all.
Better to have a chip on your shoulder than a bunch in a bowl

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06-22-2011, 03:13 PM
  #264
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Originally Posted by Clipitar View Post
Some people should read this sentence over & over again until they actually realize how true it is.
It's a lie.

Imagine it wasn't Hamrlik and was, in fact, another 5.5M dollar d-man. You'd say the same thing, because as his payscale suggests, he's suppose to be a PREMIERE d-man and pretty much a star. Markov is ahead of him but was injured and this 5.5M d-man MUST HAVE HAD the ability to replace him because THAT IS WHAT HIS SALARY SUGGESTS.

Stop giving him and his giant salary so much credit.

Hamrik is old, is slow, is weak, has no shot and is routinely behind the play toward the playoffs. We have no room for him either because we have Gill, Gorges and Spacek in the bottom three. He's not good enough for the top 3 either - so he can go straight to hell (Winnipeg) for all I care.

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06-22-2011, 03:20 PM
  #265
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I don't know why anyone is either shocked or upset by this. I expected it the entire time. There is no guarantees to land an UFA dman and at the inflated Market price Hamrlik is likely one of the better bangs for your buck. Going after one of the high profile dmen would make it more difficult to upgrade the top 6. This might be the best move of the summer depending on the price.

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06-22-2011, 03:28 PM
  #266
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Hammer back again.....


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06-22-2011, 03:32 PM
  #267
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Originally Posted by WhiskeySeven View Post
It's a lie.

Imagine it wasn't Hamrlik and was, in fact, another 5.5M dollar d-man. You'd say the same thing, because as his payscale suggests, he's suppose to be a PREMIERE d-man and pretty much a star. Markov is ahead of him but was injured and this 5.5M d-man MUST HAVE HAD the ability to replace him because THAT IS WHAT HIS SALARY SUGGESTS.

Stop giving him and his giant salary so much credit.

Hamrik is old, is slow, is weak, has no shot and is routinely behind the play toward the playoffs. We have no room for him either because we have Gill, Gorges and Spacek in the bottom three. He's not good enough for the top 3 either - so he can go straight to hell (Winnipeg) for all I care.
Hamr blocked 192 shots last year that's 4th in the nhl. he was 14th last year w/158.

Last years playoff.. he was 3rd on the team with 50 blocked shots... Only gorges can consistently do it better. He also leads the hab skaters in ice-time, so he has the most amount of ice time to make a difference.
A large portion of the habs success can be given to Hamrlik's HARD 2 way approach. He was rightfully paid, given his performances. He logged a tonne of minutes for us.

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06-22-2011, 03:38 PM
  #268
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Hamr blocked 192 shots last year that's 4th in the nhl. he was 14th last year w/158.

Last years playoff.. he was 3rd on the team with 50 blocked shots... Only gorges can consistently do it better. He also leads the hab skaters in ice-time, so he has the most amount of ice time to make a difference.
A large portion of the habs success can be given to Hamrlik's HARD 2 way approach. He was rightfully paid, given his performances. He logged a tonne of minutes for us.
If Hammer is so good, how come you don't hear about any other teams being interested in him when he hits the market? I honestly think he will be out of the league next season if we don't bring him back.

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06-22-2011, 03:40 PM
  #269
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If Hammer is so good, how come you don't hear about any other teams being interested in him when he hits the market? I honestly think he will be out of the league next season if we don't bring him back.
Probably because that is tampering and isn't allowed?

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06-22-2011, 03:42 PM
  #270
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Naw, you know what i mean... Wiz is good for 50 pts and Hamr is good for 10-20 maybe depending how much he plays. Give or take
wiz had 51 poitnts once. he also had one more 30 point year and thats about it. on the other hand, last time when hamrlik had less than 25 points the jets were still playing in winnipeg. wisniewski still could be one hit wonder, and signing him for 4-5m long term would be a tremendous risk which habs don't really need because they have markov, subban, weber and diaz as a puck moving defenders.

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06-22-2011, 03:46 PM
  #271
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
If Hammer is so good, how come you don't hear about any other teams being interested in him when he hits the market? I honestly think he will be out of the league next season if we don't bring him back.
Because he is 37. He' no longer the exciting UFA that a team can really build on. Make no mistake about it though... If Hamr falls through here. He will be picked up early. He's very serviceable, epescially on a one year term.
He may be out of the league after next year. But IMO he leaves on his terms... Not because he couldn't hack it anymore.

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06-22-2011, 03:47 PM
  #272
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Probably because that is tampering and isn't allowed?
Well, and that too lol

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06-22-2011, 03:47 PM
  #273
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depends on what the $$$ is

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06-22-2011, 03:48 PM
  #274
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Chipchura is all of 6'2 and 200 lbs,
Leblanc 6'0 178
& Qualler is a 6'4 200 lb RW'er.

None of those guys were ever drafted as the 'answer' for a big center. Chipchura was drafted as a guy who could become a key third liner, with some upside.
Leblanc was drafted as a talented finesse center, who puts a game face on night in/out.
Qualler, a big RW'er drafted in the third round.

Honestly, the answer is they haven't. There hasnt been a big oversized center to develop in YEARS (going back at least 10 years).
Nobody is drafted as an "answer" to anything, unless it's a top bluechip, which we did not draft in the last decade (aside from Price). You pick a player who has some characteristics you like, other you hope he will develop, and then you hope for the best. You don't know if you were right or wrong only years after.


Quote:
Yes the trend has been going upwards, we are getting very talented, but size & Canadiens are still a big issue, and I for one think if they admitted that this is an issue.
Why don't you assume they haven't? Because they didn't make a press conference about it?

Quote:
It's like a timestamp for parking. You get validated but only for a while. They go about their business, like the problem doesn't exist, yet it's a problem that has been around from day 1 of their administration (Back when Savvy and Timmins were brought in to place, replacing Reggie Houle).
Why you say that "they go about their business, like the problem doesn't exist"? What about Eller, why do you think they went to get him?
Quote:
Without claiming the ownership on the problem (by never saying it is a problem) Nobody questions them on it. Yes it's great for job security. But on ice performance suffers.
Why do you assume that "claiming ownership" on something means talking about it with the public? What would be the point, except create even more expectations for a rabid fanbase?
[QUOTE]

Quote:
I understood what you were saying about the fans mistakenly thinking he has this... But I think if the shoe fits, you gotta wear it. If the same problem arises, over 12 years... and they try addressing it in every other way but that one (Including firing 3 of the final 4 coaches for one) I would say it is EXACTLY the Fundamental Attribution Error flaw you describe.
If the same problem happens to different persons, managing different administrations, and with a different ownerships, then it means that its clearly not a personal problem, but an environmental one. If different peoples have the same behaviors giving the same environment, then it makes more sense to say that the environment is probably responsible for the behaviors, and not the persons themselves.
Quote:
Whatever? The man had a point. He explained his reasoning, he said the results on a long standing 'team' of individuals who are well looked after, tends to sway after the 7 year mark. They get lazy, distracted, or tired. The hiearchy of needs having been met, they dont go in to work with the same vigor as they once did. Typically, he's right too. A change of the brass, brings in fresh blood, and fresh ideas... Potentially good ones. Business outlooks can be effective when running a sports club, because that's exactly what it is... A business.
The man has a point, but it's irrelevant to the current situation. It's a rule of thumb, not something you can apply blindly. And Gauthier has been truly leading the habs for a little more than a year, not 7.

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06-22-2011, 03:49 PM
  #275
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Originally Posted by Pernell Karl View Post
Probably because that is tampering and isn't allowed?
they can't say anything out loud, but you hear all sorts of rumors about basically every other UFA out there Richards, Bieksa, Wiz, Ehrhoff etc. Nothing about Hamrlik. He's old, slow and not particularly good at anything anymore. He's not good enough to play regularly on a contender and he's too old to play on a rebuilding team. I'm thinking its KHL or retirement for him.

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