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Habs to Offer Hamrlik a Contract? (Yyyyikes!) (UPD: Offered 1-yr contract post #683)

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06-23-2011, 06:54 AM
  #426
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
even if we do trade Spacek, one of Emelin/Weber will not play...
Yes they will. Impossible to maintain 6 healty D all season. We dressed 12 of them last year.

The 7th D on a team ends up playing many games, like 3/4 of the season almost.

You need at least 8 if not 9 Dmen capable of playing in the NHL these dyas to go threw a season.

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06-23-2011, 07:45 AM
  #427
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ok, so basically it went from
- Gill is great on the PK
- Gill is top 5 in the WHOLE league on PK
- Gorges is Gill partner, losing him hurt the PK
- Gorges is also a top PK player (what, top 10?)
- we have two of the top 5/10 PK d-men in the league...


WRONG, all it shows is that Gill may not be as great as some of you make him out to be... you know, something along the line of : Leadership (not a world class or super or whatever leader, a good leader period) 3rd pairing guy, solid on the PK (not elite, not top 5 in the league and whatnot, solid PKer that's it)...

if you think it's a - to be a 3rd pairing D, be part of the leadership group while being a solid PKer, that's your problem not mine... if there's anyone clueless around here, look at those who think he's more than that.
Stop taking word by word to hearth. Gill was our vocal leader last season, he was also like I said before re one who turned P.K Subban from an arrogant prospect to a real pro who takes his defensive side of the game seriously now.

As for his pk skills, I have no idea where you have been the last 2 years.... He's been a beast with the Habs, saved I don't know how many goals and clears the puck everytime. I don't even know what else to add about that.


Last edited by PyrettaBlaze: 06-23-2011 at 09:52 AM.
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06-23-2011, 07:56 AM
  #428
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Stop taking word by word to hearth. Gill was our vocal leader last season, he was also like I said before re one who turned P.K Subban from an arrogant prospect to a real pro who takes his defensive side of the game seriously now.

As for his pk skills, I have no idea where you have been the last 2 years.... He's been a beast with the Habs, saved I don't know how many goals and clears the puck everytime. I don't even know what else to add about that.
No he doesn't.


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06-23-2011, 08:19 AM
  #429
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
No he doesn't.
Gill has been one if not the most effective defensmen we have at clearing the puck out when he has the chance.

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06-23-2011, 08:54 AM
  #430
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Originally Posted by Maxpac View Post
Gill has been one if not the most effective defensmen we have at clearing the puck out when he has the chance.
I disagree. PK Subban is much better. Hamrlik is better. For being a big guy Gill can be incredibly weak at clearing the puck.

Gill was directly responsible for two of Boston's goals in game 7 because of weak clearing attempts, poor positioning and not being strong on the puck. Gill did not put up a "super leader" type performance but just like everything else it was all Hamrlik's fault.

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06-23-2011, 09:05 AM
  #431
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
I disagree. PK Subban is much better. Hamrlik is better. For being a big guy Gill can be incredibly weak at clearing the puck.

Gill was directly responsible for two of Boston's goals in game 7 because of weak clearing attempts, poor positioning and not being strong on the puck. Gill did not put up a "super leader" type performance but just like everything else it was all Hamrlik's fault.
That was Hamrlik not Gill.

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06-23-2011, 09:11 AM
  #432
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
That was Hamrlik not Gill.
LOL

I knew it would be Hamrlik's fault for two of those goals even though he wasn't even on the ice. I mean it's just gotta be. Just as I thought............

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06-23-2011, 09:18 AM
  #433
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These dmen discussions are often puzzling.

Each year how many dmen go down with serious injuries?

And yet the discussions usually seem to assume no injuries will occur.

A major gap in the Habs system is the lack of dmen prospects ready to enter the lineup.

That was compounded by the trade of McDonagh (who would probably now be in the lineup) and the Fischer pick.

If there isn't depth, then you have what happened last year, trading four draft picks for rentals. It became obvious that they had no faith in the guys in Hamilton, Nash was the only one to get a cup of coffee.

They have identified that blunder of last year and are addressing it.

Hamrlik is one of the few who has been able to keep himself healthy over a full season recently, I would definitely offer him a contract.

And if they end up with too many dmen, all the better. If they have some tradeable contracts, someone will be looking for dmen around the league, because they are always going down with injuries. Maybe the draft picks can start coming back in the Habs direction.


Last edited by Chili: 06-23-2011 at 09:27 AM.
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06-23-2011, 09:23 AM
  #434
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http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/...eal-canadiens/


Very brief discussion, but the best case/worst case scenarios essentially show the path we are going down.

With a few savvy moves we can be a contender, no doubt.

Let's hope PG sees these moves as well!

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06-23-2011, 09:31 AM
  #435
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Plekamaniac View Post
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/...eal-canadiens/


Very brief discussion, but the best case/worst case scenarios essentially show the path we are going down.

With a few savvy moves we can be a contender, no doubt.

Let's hope PG sees these moves as well!
Yikes, the "Best-case scenario" is awful. I wouldn't trade Pouliot straight-up for Briere (too many years left on that contract), never mind Pouliot and a first. 90% of the stuff in the GM Thread is better than that.

If the Habs are going to be trading their first-round pick to get a forward it should be a guy who can play against top-6 opposition alongside Plekanec; Briere has been getting Desharnais-type opposition for the past few years.

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06-23-2011, 09:45 AM
  #436
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Cammalleri has been an absolute playoff beast since he joins the habs. 29 pts in 26 game.

And I don't think our future really hang on the Wiz.

Aside from that it's not a bad writeup overall.

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06-23-2011, 09:55 AM
  #437
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Originally Posted by Roke View Post
Yikes, the "Best-case scenario" is awful. I wouldn't trade Pouliot straight-up for Briere (too many years left on that contract), never mind Pouliot and a first. 90% of the stuff in the GM Thread is better than that.

If the Habs are going to be trading their first-round pick to get a forward it should be a guy who can play against top-6 opposition alongside Plekanec; Briere has been getting Desharnais-type opposition for the past few years.
I agree, they won't be getting another small skilled forward. But we get the idea of what he is trying to say.

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06-23-2011, 09:57 AM
  #438
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Originally Posted by Chili View Post
These dmen discussions are often puzzling.

Each year how many dmen go down with serious injuries?

And yet the discussions usually seem to assume no injuries will occur.

A major gap in the Habs system is the lack of dmen prospects ready to enter the lineup.

That was compounded by the trade of McDonagh (who would probably now be in the lineup) and the Fischer pick.

If there isn't depth, then you have what happened last year, trading four draft picks for rentals. It became obvious that they had no faith in the guys in Hamilton, Nash was the only one to get a cup of coffee.

They have identified that blunder of last year and are addressing it.

Hamrlik is one of the few who has been able to keep himself healthy over a full season recently, I would definitely offer him a contract.

And if they end up with too many dmen, all the better. If they have some tradeable contracts, someone will be looking for dmen around the league, because they are always going down with injuries. Maybe the draft picks can start coming back in the Habs direction.
A Summary of Injuries in the Last 3 Years

2008 - 2009
Mike Komisarek (missed a stretch of regular season)
Francois Bouillon (missed a stretch of regular season and playoff games)
Patrice Brisebois (missed playoff games)
Mathieu Dandenault ((missed a stretch of regular season)
Andrei Markov (missed last four games and all of the playoffs)
Matthew Schneider (missed or struggle in the playoffs with a bum shoulder)

2009 - 2010
Andrei Markov (missed half season and most of the playoffs)
Hal Gill (missed a stretch early and 1 game in the playoffs)
Ryan O'Byrne (missed a stretch early in the season)
Paul Mara (missed many games)
Jaro Spacek (missed playoff games)
Marc Andre Bergeron (missed games and played with ACL tear??)

2010 -2011
Andre Markov (missed entire season)
Jaro Spacek (missed several games)
Hal Gill (missed games down the stretch)
Josh Gorges (missed half a season)
James Wisnieski (injured hand for the playoffs)
Brent Sopel (hand and / or shoulder injury)

The Habs have been giving up oodles of draft picks to compensate for these injuries. The D was "old" at the end of the season because of long term injuries, ironically enough, to younger guys.

Vancouver's D was beaten and bruised at the end too and those were younger guys. Injuries happen - depth is needed.

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06-23-2011, 09:58 AM
  #439
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Originally Posted by Plekamaniac View Post
I agree, they won't be getting another small skilled forward. But we get the idea of what he is trying to say.
The size doesn't bother me to be honest, it's Briere not being a bona-fide top-6 forward. He probably can still handle 2nd-line minutes, but the Habs should be aiming higher at $6.5 million/year, looking for a guy who can handle first-line minutes.

If the Habs' 1st is in play Gauthier should be looking at bona-fide top-6 forward who might be available. Carter and Hemsky are two potential forwards that come to mind. It would probably take more than a first (though you never know with Edmonton's inept management).

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06-23-2011, 10:06 AM
  #440
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
A Summary of Injuries in the Last 3 Years

2008 - 2009
Mike Komisarek (missed a stretch of regular season)
Francois Bouillon (missed a stretch of regular season and playoff games)
Patrice Brisebois (missed playoff games)
Mathieu Dandenault ((missed a stretch of regular season)
Andrei Markov (missed last four games and all of the playoffs)
Matthew Schneider (missed or struggle in the playoffs with a bum shoulder)

2009 - 2010
Andrei Markov (missed half season and most of the playoffs)
Hal Gill (missed a stretch early and 1 game in the playoffs)
Ryan O'Byrne (missed a stretch early in the season)
Paul Mara (missed many games)
Jaro Spacek (missed playoff games)
Marc Andre Bergeron (missed games and played with ACL tear??)

2010 -2011
Andre Markov (missed entire season)
Jaro Spacek (missed several games)
Hal Gill (missed games down the stretch)
Josh Gorges (missed half a season)
James Wisnieski (injured hand for the playoffs)
Brent Sopel (hand and / or shoulder injury)

The Habs have been giving up oodles of draft picks to compensate for these injuries. The D was "old" at the end of the season because of long term injuries, ironically enough, to younger guys.

Vancouver's D was beaten and bruised at the end too and those were younger guys. Injuries happen - depth is needed.
Thanks! Interesting! Where did you get that?

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06-23-2011, 10:27 AM
  #441
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Originally Posted by Plekamaniac View Post
http://sports.nationalpost.com/2011/...eal-canadiens/


Very brief discussion, but the best case/worst case scenarios essentially show the path we are going down.

With a few savvy moves we can be a contender, no doubt.

Let's hope PG sees these moves as well!
Pretty poorly, not very well thought out article. Most fans here could have done better.

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06-23-2011, 10:43 AM
  #442
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Originally Posted by Plekamaniac View Post
Yuck. I'm down for signing Wisnievski, but not to the point where letting him go would be a "major faux pas", and certainly not ahead of signing Markov.

And, of course, the issues with Briere have been discussed. Lecavalier is much more credible in the role, but even he has a very unwieldy contact,

I think that's a piece typical of media who don't analyze too closely and don't follow all too well. "The Habs need stars" and "Wisnievski revitalized their defense", really insightful there. At least he points out Eller and Pax may make the whole star thing moot.

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06-23-2011, 11:21 AM
  #443
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
LOL

I knew it would be Hamrlik's fault for two of those goals even though he wasn't even on the ice. I mean it's just gotta be. Just as I thought............
Actually, the first goal he was on the ice for, not the 2nd one. The 2nd one Gill was on for. So, they both got 1.

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06-23-2011, 12:03 PM
  #444
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Originally Posted by Melvin Udall View Post
No, the facts don't bear that out:

4 months after his return to Anaheim,
No Playoffs ’98
1 round ’99
No Playoffs ’00
No Playoffs ’01
No Playoffs ’02

The Ducks did not win the Cup till 2007 - Gauthier was fired from the Ducks after the 2002 season and Bryan Murray, then Al Coates managed the team till Burke took over in 2005.

Burke added some very key pieces to the Anaheim team that won the Cup including Pronger, Gezlaf and Perry just to name a few.

If Gauthier had indeed done such a great job of team building in Anaheim it would make little sense to fire him! But his record in Anaheim would indicate no such success!

As GM of the Ottawa senators:

No Playoffs in ’95
No Playoffs in ’96
Lose 1st round in 1997

From '97 TO 2006 inclusive (10 years) Sens won 5 playoff rounds total - by the time they got to the Cup Final in 2007 - Gauthier had been gone for 9 years!

The truth is - most of the Sens team that reached the Cup Finals in 2007 was put together by John Muckler.....not Pierre Gauthier!

His record in Ottowa seems not significantly better (although he did not 'officailly' get fired!) than his record in Anaheim....where he did get fired!




He laid the ground work for it all to happen in both.

Ottawa was in HUGE turmoil in 1995-96. It had a 9 win season previous, It's main star, Alexei Yashin was pictured boarding a plane back to Russia, to join their team as he was already practicing with them. Rick Bowness (Coach) and Rich Sexton (GM) were playing hard ball, and 20 games in they were both canned.

Shortly afterwards, Gauthier stepped in as GM of the Ottawa Senators.

His FIRST move was settling the quarrel with Yashin. Who signed a 5 year extension for 13 million.

On January 23rd, he completes a blockbuster 3 way trade...

Toronto Maple Leafs: Don Beaupre, Kirk Muller
New York Islanders: Martin Straka, Bryan Berard
Ottawa Senators: Damian Rhodes, Wade Redden

Hours later, he hired Jacques Martin,

That summer, he signed Swedish prospect Daniel Alfredsson to his pro contract, changes 10 faces, and Daniel wins rookie of the year.

Draft picks directly under him that panned in to something 1/2 decent to pretty good are:

Chris Phillips, Andreas Dackell, & Sami Salo (1996)
Marian Hossa, Jani Hurme, Magnus Arvedsson, K. Rachunuk, (1997)
M. Fisher, P. Schastlivy, C. Neil, (1998)

He traded Daigle to Philly for Vaclav Prospal, who prospere in Ottawa during the good years.

Signings that were very good to the team (Ron Tugnutt)
It was Pierre Gauthier's tenure that got the ball rolling in Ottawa. His tenure, while not successful for him, showed results immediately after he was gone in Ottawa. He had placed some large pieces to the puzzle together for him...

You got to realize, that those 10 guys were relatively important to Ottawa over the years. Fisher, Phillips, Neil were all here until last year (Fisher dealt) and Arvedsson, Dackell, Schastlivy were great role players.

In short, this team was in horrendous state before Gauthier, and not only did he do a very good job cleaning it up. He also preserved, and grew their future success by shrewd drafting, and keeping the right guys (The Bonk's, Yashin's, Reddens, Alfredsson). But considering that the first year he joined the Sens, they had NINE wins just the year previous, they ended doubling to 18 much thanks to Martin's coaching style.
The Senators then went on to WIN the division within a year after his dismissal, and had that really DOMINANT hockey club.

Now on to Anaheim....
First off, On June 10th 2000, he facilitated probably the most IMPORTANT trade in Anaheim franchise history. JS Giguere from Calgary for a 2nd rounder (Matt Pettinger)
He drafted Ilya Bryzgalov, Niklas Havelid,Marc Popovic who were all big pieces to the Anaheim puzzle...\

He also did the deal that sent Selanne FROM Anaheim, to San Jose for Jeff Friesen, Steve Shields and a Second rounder. (Friesen was the big piece of the puzzle that sent Petr Sykora, JF Damphousse, and Mike Commodore to Anaheim after Gauthier left)

Commodore & Damphousse went to Calgary for Rob Niedermayer (after gauthier left)
That being said, he also drafted Petr Tenkrat, Jordan Leopold, Jonnas Ronnqvist, Stan Chistov, Joel Stepp, Timo Parssinen, Joel Perreault, & Martin Gerber.

Traded Andrei Nazarov & Patrick Traverse for Samuel Pahlsson.

Hired Bryan Murray as his bench boss in 2001 (his successor, and another builder to the '07 cup)

Now obviously, his being **** canned was for poor performance. However the next year, is the year they ran all the way to the cup finals. He was instrumental AGAIN taking a hapless organization, building it properly, and getting what they need to succeed.

Again, Gauthier placed many of the large pieces in place, including some of the big pieces.
Again, it is based off of Gauthier's team that ran to the finals and LOST. That gave this organization the edge it needed to get to the promised land. Did he do it ENTIRELY himself? no. But he constructed some HUGE elements to the Ducks. (Chief one being the Giggy deal, because Anaheim NEVER becomes ANAHEIM '07 without the 03 run (and Giggy's 07 run as well).

Yes he left both teams before experiencing success. But he laid the groundwork in order for success to happen (as I have said, and now shown you)

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06-23-2011, 12:07 PM
  #445
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even if we do trade Spacek, one of Emelin/Weber will not play...
Exactly, hence why something doesn't add up.

Also "Briere not a bonafide top 6 player" (Not saying you said it, but someone did)

lolwut?

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06-23-2011, 12:17 PM
  #446
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Exactly, hence why something doesn't add up.

Also "Briere not a bonafide top 6 player" (Not saying you said it, but someone did)

lolwut?
I did. By bona-fide I mean he's not a sure-thing top-6 player since he's played against 3rd-line opposition in his time in Philly. He could probably slot into the second-line and handle those minutes, but I don't think he's an upgrade on any of the Habs top-6 wingers at this point.

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06-23-2011, 12:26 PM
  #447
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I did. By bona-fide I mean he's not a sure-thing top-6 player since he's played against 3rd-line opposition in his time in Philly. He could probably slot into the second-line and handle those minutes, but I don't think he's an upgrade on any of the Habs top-6 wingers at this point.

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06-23-2011, 12:30 PM
  #448
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Actually, the first goal he was on the ice for, not the 2nd one. The 2nd one Gill was on for. So, they both got 1.
Hamrlik was on ice for two goals. Gill was on ice for two goals. My main debate was to disagree with a poster who stated "Gill clears the puck everytime". For each goal that Gill was on for in game 7 he had a chance to clear the puck more effectively. He was weak (slow) on/to the puck and they ended up in the back of the net including the game winner.

PK Subban can clear a puck straight out of the zone on his backhand with a guy draped all over him. Hal Gill can have a clear exit and nobody within 10 feet and fail.

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06-23-2011, 12:31 PM
  #449
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If you're head-scratching about my saying that he can probably handle top-6 minutes (I don't think it's a sure thing) but he's not a bona-fide top-6 guy, fair enough. Other than that, Briere's defensive game isn't as good as Kostitsyn's (nor do I think it's better than Pacioretty's) and though he's scores at a higher rate than either of those two Kostitsyn especially plays more difficult minutes.

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06-23-2011, 12:40 PM
  #450
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Originally Posted by Roke View Post
If you're head-scratching about my saying that he can probably handle top-6 minutes (I don't think it's a sure thing) but he's not a bona-fide top-6 guy, fair enough. Other than that, Briere's defensive game isn't as good as Kostitsyn's (nor do I think it's better than Pacioretty's) and though he's scores at a higher rate than either of those two Kostitsyn especially plays more difficult minutes.
Brière is better than Gomez and Kostitsyn, I don't even think it's up for discussion. He's definately a more gifted scorer than anyone except Cammalleri on this team.

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