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Habs to Offer Hamrlik a Contract? (Yyyyikes!) (UPD: Offered 1-yr contract post #683)

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06-25-2011, 09:51 PM
  #551
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
Well, I grant you, it depends on the price. If Hamrik is cheap, I like this move. If he's over $2million, I might agree with you.

That said, there is no reason to sign Wiz. There is only so many PP minutes to go around. With Subban, Markov and Weber, we're fine for offensive D. Wiz is not exactly a master in his own zone.
His issues in his own end are greatly exaggerated. I'd rather him than Hamrlik who, as the season goes on, can play less and less minutes and makes brainfarts in his own zone if he's overplayed. Wiz can at least handle the minutes.

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06-25-2011, 09:53 PM
  #552
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I have a feeling Wiz is waiting till July 1st to test out the market and see what he can get.

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06-25-2011, 10:16 PM
  #553
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His issues in his own end are greatly exaggerated. I'd rather him than Hamrlik who, as the season goes on, can play less and less minutes and makes brainfarts in his own zone if he's overplayed. Wiz can at least handle the minutes.
But not the opposition.

His issues might be exagerated, they still remain issues, which incidently, isn't an issue with Hamr.

BTW, I've seen Wiz make brain farts as much as any other average (defensively) defender. I also often saw Hamr having to help Wiz out, and rarely the other way around.

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06-25-2011, 11:24 PM
  #554
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His issues in his own end are greatly exaggerated. I'd rather him than Hamrlik who, as the season goes on, can play less and less minutes and makes brainfarts in his own zone if he's overplayed. Wiz can at least handle the minutes.
Hamrlik in his own end is at least a couple miles better than Wiz. You talk about brainfarts? Wiz made plenty, Hammer rarely made mistakes.

Also when a player 36 year old is asked to perform in the roll of a number 1 defencemen 2 years in a row that he probably isn't really capable of, he's gonna get tired and would probably be better utilized with less ice time. The fact he got burnt out had more to do with the injuries than it did with hammer himself. He was asked to play a roll he is no longer accustom to and performed admirably.

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06-26-2011, 12:42 AM
  #555
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Wiz made plenty, Hammer rarely made mistakes.

Also when a player 36 year old is asked to perform in the roll of a number 1 defencemen 2 years in a row that he probably isn't really capable of, he's gonna get tired and would probably be better utilized with less ice time. The fact he got burnt out had more to do with the injuries than it did with hammer himself. He was asked to play a roll he is no longer accustom to and performed admirably.
you're describing a d-man who is a 6th man with the ability to come in for relief for injury on occasion.

And on top of it all, people would be willing to pay such a player 3 Mil. lulz

PG has chosen Gill for that role, at a bit cheaper price.

I'm believing more and more in our GM.

The only way I'd consider Hamrlik is for 1.5 Mil and if Spacek was gone.

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06-26-2011, 12:51 AM
  #556
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Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
His issues in his own end are greatly exaggerated. I'd rather him than Hamrlik who, as the season goes on, can play less and less minutes and makes brainfarts in his own zone if he's overplayed. Wiz can at least handle the minutes.
No one is going to argue that Wiz isn't a better player, but let's be practical.

Wiz is going to cost 4-5 million a year. If Hamrlik is $2million or less, then you go with Hamrlik. The cap is a finite resource and while you could argue that Wiz is only "2 or 3 million more" that's a 2nd line winger difference.

Given the depth on defense, I'd rather see Hamrlik on our 2nd or 3rd pair and have $3 million more to spend on a forward than see Wiz in that same role.

Either one signed is probably 4th on the depth chart at best next season (Markov, Subban & Gorges). I don't see why it makes sense to spend $5 million on a 2nd pair defender whose main attribute is shared by at least three other members of the blue line (Markov, Subban and Weber are all PP D)

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06-26-2011, 01:42 AM
  #557
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Originally Posted by Lucius View Post
No one is going to argue that Wiz isn't a better player, but let's be practical.

Wiz is going to cost 4-5 million a year. If Hamrlik is $2million or less, then you go with Hamrlik. The cap is a finite resource and while you could argue that Wiz is only "2 or 3 million more" that's a 2nd line winger difference.

Given the depth on defense, I'd rather see Hamrlik on our 2nd or 3rd pair and have $3 million more to spend on a forward than see Wiz in that same role.

Either one signed is probably 4th on the depth chart at best next season (Markov, Subban & Gorges). I don't see why it makes sense to spend $5 million on a 2nd pair defender whose main attribute is shared by at least three other members of the blue line (Markov, Subban and Weber are all PP D)
I guess I don't see any cap limitations now that we know the cap has gone up for sure. And I also don't know why it's a given that Subban would have to play with Markov. Would it seem out of character to you if Martin balanced out his pairings by putting his best two guys on different pairings? Would it seem even more out of character if the guy who Martin ended up putting beside Markov on the first, most minute-consuming, pairing was a veteran, rather than a sophmore?

I dunno dude. I wouldn't bet the farm on Martin putting these guys out together 5-on-5, even if they'll end up playing together on special teams. Without another RH veteran already in the lineup to take that role if need be, you're hoping you can sign another FA instead of the excellent one already in the dressing room, and avoid having to spend assets a 2nd straight time to fill the same spot again? And no, I don't consider Gorges, especially coming off rehab (no matter how successful), to be a suitable top pairing defenseman if teams are ever going to be forced to respect our team's offense/top unit.

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06-26-2011, 02:23 AM
  #558
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Hamrlik is our most physical and punishing D. And stop making this a Wiz vs Hamrlik thing. Just trade Spacek.

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06-26-2011, 07:24 AM
  #559
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Hamrlik is our most physical and punishing D. And stop making this a Wiz vs Hamrlik thing. Just trade Spacek.
That means nothing when you look at who you're comparing him too.

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06-26-2011, 07:27 AM
  #560
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Hamr won't be back based on how many d-men we have and their contracys.I would rather have him playing in a 5/6 role than Spacek,Gill,or Weber. He'll get a 2 yr deal somewhere for more than we can offer him. The other GM's know he was way overused here the last couple of years

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06-26-2011, 07:52 AM
  #561
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Wisniewski doesn't merit $5M+. He's bigger andd more versatile than MAB but he, too, is not the best D to put on the ice at critical moments. I'd be more enthusiastic about signing him if he weren't so expensive. The Habs aren't as desperate as they were at the time they traded for him. In addition to the return of Markov and Gorges they've added (Y)Emelin, while Subban and Weber should have added experience. Gill and Spacek are there too.

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06-26-2011, 07:59 AM
  #562
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All I know is that I watched every single game and I don't remember many occasions when Wisniewski made a bad play that lead to a goal against, especially in the playoffs. I remember his face with that full shield that shows he's a warrior, I remember his lovely passes to plekanec through the middle that lead to breakaways and I remember his booming shot from the point. His play in his own end is fine compared to the average.

What do I remember about hamrlik? Being on the ice for critical goals during the playoffs and not covering his man going hard to the net. I recall at least two plays in the Boston series when Boston tapped in a goal in front of Price and the majority of the time Hamrlik was on the ice. I remember being scared ****less whenever he was on, honestly, and I'm not one to jump on players. He's been a great servant we just need to move on.

You don't let a guy like Wisniewski get in the hands of your opponents. Those of you comparing him to MAB or saying he's poor in his own end, you realize the Red Wings are after him hard. Do they look like an organization that signs unreliable players? I think not.


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06-26-2011, 08:07 AM
  #563
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If Hamrlik and Wiz would both be signed I'd be elated. With Markov on the roster and the history of injuries in the last 3 years I don't find Wiz to be such a duplication. And of course it would have to be at the expense of other(s) such as Spacek, Gomez, Weber, etc.

If Hamrlik is not signed and Wiz is I'll still be happy. I just don't mind Wiz as a duplication as pointed out above. As the roster stands if one of Subban or Markov get injured it's gonna be a tough load to handle for the one left standing without Wiz and/or Hamrlik.

If neither Hamrlik or Wiz are re-signed I won't be pleased. And aside from the aforementioned if another top # 4 d-man is not acquired I'll be genuinely ticked. That's the path the Habs have travelled the last few years and it only works if there are no injuries.

I still would have rathered Hamrlik at least been given the opportunity to express what was on his mind instead of re-signing Gill so quickly. If Hamrlik's number is high I understand but what is that number? Nobody seems to know.

In summary I'm not content at all with the D as it stands. There are too many unanswered questions and players coming back from injuries. Not only that the D market is drying up.

Roster
Markov: coming off 3 major injuries. How long until he returns to his level of play? What other injuries could he be susceptible to having not played much lately? And he'll be more of a target. And his remarks that he'll be more aggressive are scary. LOL

Subban: the opposition will be paying more attention to him. Will he go into a sophomore slump? Will Gill be his D partner and help squelch the offense?

Gorges: again......how long until he returns to the level of play he's capable of and will he still get knocked over in the crease? LOL

Emelin: just a huge question mark until the season gets started.

Diaz: same as above

Spacek: got off to a horrible start last year. Hamrlik covered for him - who's going to do that this year? Also coming off of knee surgery.

Gill: if either Markov or Subban are injured there is no way for him to pick up his game and help the offence. It will all be left up to one of either Markov or Subban. And Gill must be partnered with a more mobile d-man. Has no desire to play on the right either.

Weber: another question mark although I was pleasantly surprised with his progress last year. But Martin didn't seem as impressed.

Available D-Men
Pitkanen: doubt he would come to a high profile market.
Regehr: gone to Buffalo
Bieksa: rumors are he's re-signed with Vancouver
Ehrhoff: see above
Jovanoski: injury prone?
Liles: gone to Toronto
Campbell: not that the Habs could have afforded him.
Brewer: re-signed with Tampa

The Habs don't exactly have the assets to trade so it will be interesting to see what happens this week for at least another impact D. I just hope Gauthier isn't content with this D.

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06-26-2011, 09:16 AM
  #564
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
If Hamrlik and Wiz would both be signed I'd be elated. With Markov on the roster and the history of injuries in the last 3 years I don't find Wiz to be such a duplication. And of course it would have to be at the expense of other(s) such as Spacek, Gomez, Weber, etc.

If Hamrlik is not signed and Wiz is I'll still be happy. I just don't mind Wiz as a duplication as pointed out above. As the roster stands if one of Subban or Markov get injured it's gonna be a tough load to handle for the one left standing without Wiz and/or Hamrlik.

If neither Hamrlik or Wiz are re-signed I won't be pleased. And aside from the aforementioned if another top # 4 d-man is not acquired I'll be genuinely ticked. That's the path the Habs have travelled the last few years and it only works if there are no injuries.

I still would have rathered Hamrlik at least been given the opportunity to express what was on his mind instead of re-signing Gill so quickly. If Hamrlik's number is high I understand but what is that number? Nobody seems to know.

In summary I'm not content at all with the D as it stands. There are too many unanswered questions and players coming back from injuries. Not only that the D market is drying up.

Roster
Markov: coming off 3 major injuries. How long until he returns to his level of play? What other injuries could he be susceptible to having not played much lately? And he'll be more of a target. And his remarks that he'll be more aggressive are scary. LOL

Subban: the opposition will be paying more attention to him. Will he go into a sophomore slump? Will Gill be his D partner and help squelch the offense?

Gorges: again......how long until he returns to the level of play he's capable of and will he still get knocked over in the crease? LOL

Emelin: just a huge question mark until the season gets started.

Diaz: same as above

Spacek: got off to a horrible start last year. Hamrlik covered for him - who's going to do that this year? Also coming off of knee surgery.

Gill: if either Markov or Subban are injured there is no way for him to pick up his game and help the offence. It will all be left up to one of either Markov or Subban. And Gill must be partnered with a more mobile d-man. Has no desire to play on the right either.

Weber: another question mark although I was pleasantly surprised with his progress last year. But Martin didn't seem as impressed.

Available D-Men
Pitkanen: doubt he would come to a high profile market.
Regehr: gone to Buffalo
Bieksa: rumors are he's re-signed with Vancouver
Ehrhoff: see above
Jovanoski: injury prone?
Liles: gone to Toronto
Campbell: not that the Habs could have afforded him.
Brewer: re-signed with Tampa

The Habs don't exactly have the assets to trade so it will be interesting to see what happens this week for at least another impact D. I just hope Gauthier isn't content with this D.
Well thought out, we need another D and hammer is the guy. Reality check guys, the wiz is gone, he is going to make 6.5 a year. Nothing good available on the market and teams have lots of cash to spend.

We would be lucky to get hammer on a 2 yrs 7 million (3.5 per)

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06-26-2011, 09:28 AM
  #565
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I guess I don't see any cap limitations now that we know the cap has gone up for sure. And I also don't know why it's a given that Subban would have to play with Markov. Would it seem out of character to you if Martin balanced out his pairings by putting his best two guys on different pairings? Would it seem even more out of character if the guy who Martin ended up putting beside Markov on the first, most minute-consuming, pairing was a veteran, rather than a sophmore?

I dunno dude. I wouldn't bet the farm on Martin putting these guys out together 5-on-5, even if they'll end up playing together on special teams. Without another RH veteran already in the lineup to take that role if need be, you're hoping you can sign another FA instead of the excellent one already in the dressing room, and avoid having to spend assets a 2nd straight time to fill the same spot again? And no, I don't consider Gorges, especially coming off rehab (no matter how successful), to be a suitable top pairing defenseman if teams are ever going to be forced to respect our team's offense/top unit.
I think it's just a matter of disagreement then. Gorges will probably be in the top four. On the left if Wiz was signed, on the right if he is not.

Aside from the cap, I think the reason they're talking to Hamrlik not Wiz is because Hamrlik would be an obstacle Emelin can supplant in camp if he deserves it, but not hamstring the team if he doesn't. If they sign Wiz, the top four (Markov, Gorges, Subban and Wiz) would be set, sealed and delivered. That would force Emelin out of the line-up for absolute certain (Gill ain't moving off the bottom pair on the left) and the ink would be set on his return trip to Russia.

I would imagine Gauthier is HOPING for: Markov/Subban, Emelin/Gorges, Gill/Weber, but would be comfortable with Markov/Subban, Hamrlik/Spacek, Gill/Gorges if none of the young guns are able to make the leap.

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06-26-2011, 10:06 AM
  #566
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Busy week ahead...will Gorges get a deal? Seems like there is something going on with him, and maybe that's why there was talk of a deal with Hammer? I think most of us would rather Hammer gone, and Gorges and Wiz re-signed....

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06-26-2011, 10:19 AM
  #567
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Originally Posted by jadensdad View Post
Well thought out, we need another D and hammer is the guy. Reality check guys, the wiz is gone, he is going to make 6.5 a year. Nothing good available on the market and teams have lots of cash to spend.

We would be lucky to get hammer on a 2 yrs 7 million (3.5 per)
I think you have all your figures wrong.

Wiz won't get more than 4,5 to 5 for maybe 3 to 4 years

Hamrlik won't be signed for two seasons. But he could be signed for one season at 4 million.

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06-26-2011, 10:44 AM
  #568
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Originally Posted by swimmer77 View Post
If Hamrlik and Wiz would both be signed I'd be elated. With Markov on the roster and the history of injuries in the last 3 years I don't find Wiz to be such a duplication. And of course it would have to be at the expense of other(s) such as Spacek, Gomez, Weber, etc.

If Hamrlik is not signed and Wiz is I'll still be happy. I just don't mind Wiz as a duplication as pointed out above. As the roster stands if one of Subban or Markov get injured it's gonna be a tough load to handle for the one left standing without Wiz and/or Hamrlik.

If neither Hamrlik or Wiz are re-signed I won't be pleased. And aside from the aforementioned if another top # 4 d-man is not acquired I'll be genuinely ticked. That's the path the Habs have travelled the last few years and it only works if there are no injuries.

I still would have rathered Hamrlik at least been given the opportunity to express what was on his mind instead of re-signing Gill so quickly. If Hamrlik's number is high I understand but what is that number? Nobody seems to know.

In summary I'm not content at all with the D as it stands. There are too many unanswered questions and players coming back from injuries. Not only that the D market is drying up.

Roster
Markov: coming off 3 major injuries. How long until he returns to his level of play? What other injuries could he be susceptible to having not played much lately? And he'll be more of a target. And his remarks that he'll be more aggressive are scary. LOL

Subban: the opposition will be paying more attention to him. Will he go into a sophomore slump? Will Gill be his D partner and help squelch the offense?

Gorges: again......how long until he returns to the level of play he's capable of and will he still get knocked over in the crease? LOL

Emelin: just a huge question mark until the season gets started.

Diaz: same as above

Spacek: got off to a horrible start last year. Hamrlik covered for him - who's going to do that this year? Also coming off of knee surgery.

Gill: if either Markov or Subban are injured there is no way for him to pick up his game and help the offence. It will all be left up to one of either Markov or Subban. And Gill must be partnered with a more mobile d-man. Has no desire to play on the right either.

Weber: another question mark although I was pleasantly surprised with his progress last year. But Martin didn't seem as impressed.

Available D-Men
Pitkanen: doubt he would come to a high profile market.
Regehr: gone to Buffalo
Bieksa: rumors are he's re-signed with Vancouver
Ehrhoff: see above
Jovanoski: injury prone?
Liles: gone to Toronto
Campbell: not that the Habs could have afforded him.
Brewer: re-signed with Tampa

The Habs don't exactly have the assets to trade so it will be interesting to see what happens this week for at least another impact D. I just hope Gauthier isn't content with this D.
Our D without Hamrlik or Wiz is worse than last year, or at least, more puzzling.

And I would see nothing wrong to have one of Mara or Sopel back too.

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06-26-2011, 10:47 AM
  #569
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Did the Habs sign Yemelin to put him in AHL all season long?
Is Diaz ceiling AHL?
Yemelin isn't supposed to play in AHL, if yes he could return to the KHL...

Diaz in AHL = 67 500 $
http://capgeek.com/players/display.php?id=2019

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06-26-2011, 10:47 AM
  #570
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perfect storm

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Originally Posted by habitue View Post
I think you have all your figures wrong.

Wiz won't get more than 4,5 to 5 for maybe 3 to 4 years

Hamrlik won't be signed for two seasons. But he could be signed for one season at 4 million.
supply and demand will be at work. PMD with big shots are very valuable especially the ones that bring some toughness and heart . I don`t think he is worth 6.5, I think that is what he will get.

There is nobody better than the wiz that will make it free agency, and there are a lot of teams having to make it to the floor. lots of $$$ in the market + limited supply of valuable asset = big contract.

We will see next week

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06-26-2011, 10:59 AM
  #571
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I would imagine Gauthier is HOPING for: Markov/Subban, Emelin/Gorges, Gill/Weber, but would be comfortable with Markov/Subban, Hamrlik/Spacek, Gill/Gorges if none of the young guns are able to make the leap.
Well that top pairing better provide a LOT of offense, because I don't see many teams having trouble containing the offense of the next two pairings at all. I think most people are hoping to see Subban on the 1st pairing full time just because they know he likely can't get Norris consideration if he's not. It'd be cool if he plays well enough to get such individual recognition. It'd be even better if the Habs, as a team, are actually harder to play against. Need two balanced pairings for that, though, unless you're not concerned with line matching and no last change in opposing rinks. Obviously a mostly philosophical difference in opinions.

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06-26-2011, 11:16 AM
  #572
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Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
Well that top pairing better provide a LOT of offense, because I don't see many teams having trouble containing the offense of the next two pairings at all. I think most people are hoping to see Subban on the 1st pairing full time just because they know he likely can't get Norris consideration if he's not. It'd be cool if he plays well enough to get such individual recognition. It'd be even better if the Habs, as a team, are actually harder to play against. Need two balanced pairings for that, though, unless you're not concerned with line matching and no last change in opposing rinks. Obviously a mostly philosophical difference in opinions.
That's my issue too. I don't see us putting Markov and Subban together, and I don't see Markov paired with a player that lacks size, like Gorges or Spacek. Emelin is ideal but they're both left D. So unless we re-sign Wisniewski, or go after a #2 D on July 1st, I don't see how this is going to shape up. Your top pair has to have some size to go against the top players of the other team. We're asking to get smoked if Markov is paired with someone small. Maybe we're going after an Ehrhoff or Bieksa? Otherwise I don't see how this is going to work out positively. All I know is Hamrlik isn't the answer.

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06-26-2011, 11:23 AM
  #573
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Emelin is our most physical and punishing D.
Followed by PK.

Hammer is not coming back.
You can not hire hockey players if you can not ice them.

I can see Diaz going to AHL. Will probably burn the league like DD and MaxPac did last year.
Maybe Emelin wil go there one or two months.

We already have a lot of d-men and if Hammer signs a deal with us, he may endup with Spacek on a bottom-2 when the season finish.
Among Gill, Spacek, Hammer and Gorges we have 4 bottom-4 d-men.
Markov and PK are top-2.
Emelin is in the middle but lacks the experience of Hammer and Spacek.

About toughness, can someone post a video showcasing Emelin is tough as a nail.
Just wait to see Lucic waking up Emelin...

Emelin is tougher, taller and heavier than Hammer.
Oups... I just realize, we need to write Yemelin

Sorry Alexei!

Edit:
I am totally happy with Spacek on a bottom-2. He can play top-4 if injuries occurs and with 14 minutes per game, he is very reliable.
Hamrlik > Spacek
Spacek makes $3.8
Move Spacek and give Hamrlik something like $3M. This way the team is better and you save cap space.

And how about we let Emelin play a game or two before we decide he's our toughest D?

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06-26-2011, 11:28 AM
  #574
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Last week, I argued with someone (don't remember who, but hey, I argue all the time with everyone, so sue me) about Florida taking overpaid players to fill in the 30 mil they have to spend to reach the cap floor.

They took a first step with the addition of Campbell. I said this would happen and the new trend has now started. As the cap will keep increasing, bottom teams (being able to compensate through revenue sharing) will be taking on more and more unperforming overpaid players to fill in the void, as they are also less likely to be able to sign UFAs in their present situation (which should become better with time, as those overpaid players are still mostly all valuable in reality).

Anyway, I find that the Campbell trade makes it even more likely that we could move Spacek. We need one big body on the right, and another one on the left preferably, but overall, we need to add depth, and that means Weber and Emelin starting as 7ths.

If Habs don't intend on signing any top 6 forward, and rather sign a top 9 @ around 2-3 mil, than we could have something like this (if they intend on having the D's chemistry to stay stable, and that would mean to bring back players that have already played with the present crew):

Markov(5,75)-Subban(0,875)
Hamr(3)-Wiz(5)
Gill(2,25)-Gorges(2,5)
Emelin(0,975)Weber(1,1)

21+ mil, quite affordable, Hamr and Gill come off the books next year, so we'll have wiggle room for contract upgrades, especially with the cap which might still be going up (if Phoenix is moved to a more favorable market)
.
Same scenario for stable chemistry on D, if we want a forward that costs a little more, than we would have to do something like :

Markov-Subban
Hamr-Sopel
Gill-Gorges
Emelin-Weber

or

Markov-Subban
Hamr-Gorges
Gill-Mara
Emelin-Weber

Can't wait to see what Gauthier will do.

Ozymandias is offline  
Old
06-26-2011, 11:38 AM
  #575
habitue*
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ginu View Post
That's my issue too. I don't see us putting Markov and Subban together, and I don't see Markov paired with a player that lacks size, like Gorges or Spacek. Emelin is ideal but they're both left D. So unless we re-sign Wisniewski, or go after a #2 D on July 1st, I don't see how this is going to shape up. Your top pair has to have some size to go against the top players of the other team. We're asking to get smoked if Markov is paired with someone small. Maybe we're going after an Ehrhoff or Bieksa? Otherwise I don't see how this is going to work out positively. All I know is Hamrlik isn't the answer.
People are also forgetting that Markov HATES playing on the right side on PP. And Subban is at his best on the left side to unload his big one-timers. Wiz was a more accomodating partner for Subban. Weber can become that too.

And everyone thinks that a Markov-Subban combo on PP is the greatest think since slide bread. I am looking forward to see that.

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