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Could Keith Yandle be a prime offer sheet target?

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Old
06-22-2011, 01:09 PM
  #26
CloutierForVezina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Dagenais View Post
Keith Yandle can get more than 5.4 over 5 years. And, he's only 24.
The statement I was replying to was asking why Yandle would play for 1M I his fifth year... So long as he's happy with the average salary he should try to frontload the contract as much as possible. It only makes sense to have more money right now. Depending on what interest rate and what length of contract you want to use, a front loaded contract can be like getting a few extra hundred thousand, or even more, per year.

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06-22-2011, 01:11 PM
  #27
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I don't know why Detriot wouldn't try this. They need some defensive help an have some cap availible.

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06-22-2011, 02:23 PM
  #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pierre Dagenais View Post
Keith Yandle can get more than 5.4 over 5 years. And, he's only 24.




Comparables for Yandle off the top of my head...

1. JJ 7yr/4.5avg

2. EJ - 3yr/3.7avg

3. BYFUGLN 5yr/5.2avg

4. GREEN 4yr/5.25avg

5. PHANUF -6yr/6.5avg

6. EDLER 4yr/3.25avg

7. LETNG - 4yr/3.5avg

8. PITKANEN 3yr/4.0avg

9. WEBR 3yr/4.5avg

10. SUTR 3yr/3.5avg

AVG 4.2yr/4.39avg

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Old
06-22-2011, 02:26 PM
  #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CloutierForVezina View Post
The statement I was replying to was asking why Yandle would play for 1M I his fifth year... So long as he's happy with the average salary he should try to frontload the contract as much as possible. It only makes sense to have more money right now. Depending on what interest rate and what length of contract you want to use, a front loaded contract can be like getting a few extra hundred thousand, or even more, per year.
Agreed. We arent talking about a pay check to paycheck sort of lifestyle, here.

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06-22-2011, 02:29 PM
  #30
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I wouldn't look at past offersheets in this instance. This specific situation is totally unique.

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06-22-2011, 03:25 PM
  #31
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
You guys are spinning your wheels for nothing. His contract won't be front loaded. Find me one RFA contract signed since the lockout that was front loaded.
Duncan Keith? 8 mil each of the first 3 years with a cap hit of barely 5.5.

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06-22-2011, 04:05 PM
  #32
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The thing that people overlook in the Phoenix situation is that the league owns them. Offer sheets are generally frowned, but when you're killing the value of a team that your owner owns a small piece of, it's just a bad idea. It would do significant damage to your business relationship with the 29 other teams and the league management.

Given Jeremy Jacobs role in the league the Bruins are one of the least likely teams to consider an offer sheet on Yandle.

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Old
06-22-2011, 05:10 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by almostawake View Post
The thing that people overlook in the Phoenix situation is that the league owns them. Offer sheets are generally frowned, but when you're killing the value of a team that your owner owns a small piece of, it's just a bad idea. It would do significant damage to your business relationship with the 29 other teams and the league management.

Given Jeremy Jacobs role in the league the Bruins are one of the least likely teams to consider an offer sheet on Yandle.
Not exactly fair to Yandle, is it? Would the NHLPA consider that collusion?

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06-22-2011, 05:14 PM
  #34
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Originally Posted by Ishad View Post
??? All six players signed them. Penner was the only one that wasn't matched.
Again, Penner was the most notable offer sheet. Yandle isn't going to get sheeted.

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06-22-2011, 05:15 PM
  #35
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I'd offer him one from the Kings, Him and Doughty together? That's the best offensive pairing in the league

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06-22-2011, 05:20 PM
  #36
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I'd love for Edmonton to offer him one. It'd be a fast way to speed up the rebuild and a Whitney - Yandle pairing would be deadly.
Something like 6 years, 36 million
10, 10, 5, 5, 3, 3

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06-22-2011, 05:31 PM
  #37
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I can't see it happening, but if it did.. the compensation we'd receive would give us a lot of help on trade negotiations on bringing in some talent to help us right now. Not what I want though.

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06-22-2011, 06:10 PM
  #38
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Originally Posted by Naych_PHX View Post
I can't see it happening, but if it did.. the compensation we'd receive would give us a lot of help on trade negotiations on bringing in some talent to help us right now. Not what I want though.
A 2012 1st, 2nd, and 3rd seems like a god awful return to me.

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06-22-2011, 06:35 PM
  #39
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Others have covered the 100% Rule which would limit the contract structure.

If a team exercises it's Right of First Refusal to match an RFA Offer Sheet, they have to match only the "Principal Terms" of the offer - Term, Paragraph 1 Salary and Signing or Reporting Bonuses. They do not have to match any other terms, such as an NTC/NMC (if the SPC extends into UFA years), etc.

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06-22-2011, 06:40 PM
  #40
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Originally Posted by almostawake View Post
The thing that people overlook in the Phoenix situation is that the league owns them. Offer sheets are generally frowned, but when you're killing the value of a team that your owner owns a small piece of, it's just a bad idea.
Even accepting your premise (which I don't) that Keith Yandle is directly tied to the value of the Phoenix Coyotes franchise, which is losing what, about 1/4 of its total value every year..

I don't see this as a significant factor. Put it this way, if you sign Keith Yandle to an offer sheet and the Coyotes can't or don't match, you and 28 other teams each share a loss that, spread between all 29 parties is pretty insignificant; surely not enough for you to turn away from what might be a rather large gain in the form of a blossoming young player.

Now put it this way, if every team in the league knows that 29 guys will lose a little bit if Yandle signs an offer sheet and one will see a benefit that far outweighs that loss, why would each team not consider it?

Put simply, few GMs are going to pursue an outcome that is worse for them but better for the league.

Quote:
It would do significant damage to your business relationship with the 29 other teams and the league management.
I don't buy this either. Teams don't seem to have any trouble dealing with the Oilers, Flyers, Canucks or Sharks - all of which have signed restricted free agents to offer sheets since the lockout.

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06-22-2011, 06:46 PM
  #41
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
Not exactly fair to Yandle, is it? Would the NHLPA consider that collusion?
No, I doubt there's been anything explicit said about it. Given the rarity of offer sheets it would be extremely difficult to prove collusion unless there was clear documentation. I think it's more just the fact that every owner knows they're footing the bill for the Coyotes and recognize the stupidity of stripping the franchise clean before they can get it off their hands.

As far as the NHLPA goes, they won't sell their member out, but it is in their best interests to have this situation resolved as quickly as possible. Unless Yandle made a big deal about it I can't see them pushing it.

If the Coyotes were lowballing Yandle I'm sure teams would talk offer sheet with him. But throwing down something aggressively front loaded, that would be frowned upon. It's likely the Coyotes would match anyways, the only effect it would have is they'd have less money to fill their roster out, would be a worse team, lose more gate money, and hence, lose more money for the league and owners.

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06-22-2011, 06:58 PM
  #42
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Originally Posted by R0bert0 Lu0ng0 View Post
Even accepting your premise (which I don't) that Keith Yandle is directly tied to the value of the Phoenix Coyotes franchise, which is losing what, about 1/4 of its total value every year..

I don't see this as a significant factor. Put it this way, if you sign Keith Yandle to an offer sheet and the Coyotes can't or don't match, you and 28 other teams each share a loss that, spread between all 29 parties is pretty insignificant; surely not enough for you to turn away from what might be a rather large gain in the form of a blossoming young player.

Now put it this way, if every team in the league knows that 29 guys will lose a little bit if Yandle signs an offer sheet and one will see a benefit that far outweighs that loss, why would each team not consider it?

Put simply, few GMs are going to pursue an outcome that is worse for them but better for the league.
If a team actually managed to get Yandle, yes, they would come out ahead in the accounting. But being the owner that cost each of the other owners 2+ million dollars is going to make you very unpopular.

As far as GMs go, ya, I bet they would do it, but it's not going to be their choice.

Just to be clear, I think Phoenix matches any offer anyways. The only result would be them icing a weaker lineup because a greater portion of their budget is taken up by Yandle.

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Originally Posted by R0bert0 Lu0ng0 View Post
I don't buy this either. Teams don't seem to have any trouble dealing with the Oilers, Flyers, Canucks or Sharks - all of which have signed restricted free agents to offer sheets since the lockout.
Completely irrelevant to this situation. This is about damaging the value of a league owned asset. And just to be clear, I'm not talking at all about trading and making those kinds of deals. I'm talking about basic business relations between franchises. A new CBA will be negotiated next summer, do you really want to upset all of your fellow owners.

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06-22-2011, 07:06 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by rt View Post
A 2012 1st, 2nd, and 3rd seems like a god awful return to me.
How about if it was Edmonton? The Oilers and Yotes are my 2 favourite teams and I'd be happy from both sides of the signing. That would give the Yotes a potential lottery pick. Doan is getting old and Phoenix needs to find a high end offensive talent to lead them. I know losing Yandle would suck, but the chance of getting Yakupov would be awfully tempting. It's about the only offer sheet where I see both sides "winning".

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06-22-2011, 07:13 PM
  #44
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Originally Posted by GAGLine View Post
You guys are spinning your wheels for nothing. His contract won't be front loaded. Find me one RFA contract signed since the lockout that was front loaded.
Thomas Vanek's RFA offer from EDM started with a first year salary of 10M and went down from there (averaging about 7.1M/year).

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06-22-2011, 07:15 PM
  #45
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Originally Posted by JoDee View Post
I don't know why Detriot wouldn't try this. They need some defensive help an have some cap availible.
I said in october in a yandle thread that if he hits FA as an rfa I don't know how DET couldn't offer sheet him, boom search for lidstroms eventual successor is over

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06-22-2011, 07:16 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by almostawake View Post
No, I doubt there's been anything explicit said about it. Given the rarity of offer sheets it would be extremely difficult to prove collusion unless there was clear documentation. I think it's more just the fact that every owner knows they're footing the bill for the Coyotes and recognize the stupidity of stripping the franchise clean before they can get it off their hands.

As far as the NHLPA goes, they won't sell their member out, but it is in their best interests to have this situation resolved as quickly as possible. Unless Yandle made a big deal about it I can't see them pushing it.

If the Coyotes were lowballing Yandle I'm sure teams would talk offer sheet with him. But throwing down something aggressively front loaded, that would be frowned upon. It's likely the Coyotes would match anyways, the only effect it would have is they'd have less money to fill their roster out, would be a worse team, lose more gate money, and hence, lose more money for the league and owners.
Which brings us to my initial motivation for creating this thread. A quite from Don Maloney, a couple of days ago, concerning our pending free agents,

"I'm not having a lot of luck, to be honest," Maloney said. "Nothing that I would consider close as we sit here today."

Makes me nervous. If Don can't get Yandle signed, and feels an offersheet is a legitimate risk, he needs to trade this player. Three picks from a contending team is an awful return.

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Old
06-22-2011, 07:17 PM
  #47
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Originally Posted by apice3 View Post
There's been 6 offer sheets signed since 1998. Five were matched.

Offer sheets aren't the common practice HF makes them out to be.
Another way of putting it is there have been 6 in the last 5 years, with only 2009 not having one.

Offer sheets happen pretty much once a year on average since the lockout, not nearly as uncommon as you make it out to be.

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06-22-2011, 07:27 PM
  #48
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Originally Posted by almostawake View Post
If a team actually managed to get Yandle, yes, they would come out ahead in the accounting. But being the owner that cost each of the other owners 2+ million dollars is going to make you very unpopular.
Am I reading this right - Keith Yandle leaving is going to lose the Phoenix Coyotes franchise $60m (ie. 2+m dollars from each of the other owners)?

He's a great young player, but, uhh..

Quote:
Just to be clear, I think Phoenix matches any offer anyways. The only result would be them icing a weaker lineup because a greater portion of their budget is taken up by Yandle.
Agreed.

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06-22-2011, 07:48 PM
  #49
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I'd offer him one from the Kings, Him and Doughty together? That's the best offensive pairing in the league
Phoenix could use some of Kings forward depth, too. I don't think Phoenix will let Yandle go. Especially now that Jovanovski 6M+ cap hit is off the books.

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Old
06-22-2011, 08:23 PM
  #50
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Originally Posted by Habiton View Post
Yes, they could do that.

I would say a good offer to kill pheonix (no offense) is something like this.

5 years, 5.4 million average (1st, 2nd, 3rd Comp)

11 8 5 2 1
The GM to pull that off would loose a lot respect around the league, thats low.

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