Oh, man...If I see this team head into the next post-season with Kesler centering two thirdline "second line players".........
That's still a pretty solid 2nd line with Higgins and Samuelsson. Kesler will always be the catalyst on his line unless we get another elite forward, which is unlikely. Samuelsson scored 30 goals in 74 games and 8 in 12 playoff games a year ago, and put up 18 goals and 50 points in 75 games this year despite being slowed by injury for most of it. He's been productive with Kesler and with the Sedins and has shown some clutch scoring ability. I'm content with him.
Higgins did a lot of great work for us in the playoffs and with a healthy Kesler and a healthy Samuelsson (not to mention a healthy Higgins) I think that line would have been productive. Raymond worked hard and skated miles but didn't seem to mesh very well with the other 2 (he also seems to be more effective on the left side). I'd like to upgrade that LW spot but it has to make sense, and throwing a pile of money at guys like Gagne and Leino doesn't make much sense to me.
I used to love gagne, forsberg once said he was the purest goal scorer hes ever played with.
****** year in tampa, to his standards, and health could be an issue.
Laich is a solid player, can tell he is a great locker room guy who leads by example with hard gritty work. is his offence good enough to be the best option? Kes and Laich could be a crazy effort combo.
Dont know enough of Leino other than what ive heard.
I'm really not sold on Laich. I just get the feeling that he's gonna sign a big contract somewhere and end up not breaking 50 points and being a relative bust. From what I've seen in Washington he just doesn't seem like the stand out player that people are claiming he is.
I really wanna chalk up a lot of his production to the guys he played with. A good chunk of his point totals the last year or two have come from playing on a stacked PP with some combo of Ovie, Backstrom, Semin and Mike Green. Kesler is no slouch but I really see 50-55 points and maybe 20 goals as more of a ceiling for him, I don't think he has the kind of upside we want.
It's a sad year when Brooks Laich is being touted as one of the top 3 or 4 forwards available.
He might not fit with AV's vision or "expectations"... He might fit very well with the Sedins (if Leino can play rw), but I could also see him getting the Ballard treatment if he doesn't stick to the system (making turnovers due to backhand passes, etc.)... For a 2nd or 3rd liner, I think the Canucks need more of a "system"-type player... The system works very well here, so anyone brought in, IMO, should be very willing to learn, and able to play, the system...
Despite the injury issues, out of the three listed, my vote is Gagne... An off-the-list UFA player for me would be Brunette...
Brunette's winding down on his career, and I could see him taking a pretty cheap contract on a one-year deal to play on a contender like the Canucks... On a cheap contract, Brunette could slot in on 1st, 2nd, or 3rd (or 4th line) while playing sound defense, sound offense, and has a knack for scoring big goals... With the injury to Raymond, Brunette could slot into the 2nd line for, at least, the short term... He'd be another (around) 20-goal scorer (and veteran presence) on the roster, which IMO, would be huge for offensive depth... I think he'd be low maintenance, fit in well in the room, play well within the system, and tow the company line, pretty inexpensively...
If the options were Gagne, Brunette, Leino, or Laich... Making assumptions on salary and contract length, I think my vote would be (1) Gagne; (2) Brunette; (3) Laich; and (4) Leino
Ouch, that thread was not flattering to Leino. If he has issues with systems play, he likely will not work here. It's really too bad because he has a lot to offer that 2nd line LW spot. What a shame...
Tanguay and Gagne then. Brunette also deserves a look. Originally, I wanted a player like Kobasew to round out the bottom 6. However, perhaps hiding/resting a player like Brunette there until the games matter most might be the best way to go. He'd be pretty handy on the PP as well.
Not a huge fan of any of them, but the UFA market isn't exactly deep this year.
That's why there are trades. Why hand out stupid amounts of money to average players, try to get real impact player that deserves the money or don't get anything and just wait for the right one instead of messing the cap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Stanchion for MVP
Leino: Soft
Gagne: Injury Prone
I can't see anything wrong with Laich aside from him being highly sought after this year. I'd prefer him at the right price.
Leino is skilled with the puck, very good at protecting the puck and good enough skater to play in top 6 role. Kinda reminds me of Kovalev a bit, an artist that has his flaws as well.
He doesn't use his linemates properly, not very good on defensive side of things effort- or skillwise, and while at times he goes to the dirty areas and is not afraid of getting hit, he doesn't really thrive on it or do it consistently to be considered as "great effort" or "not soft" -type of player.
Flyers have been offering him something around 2.7 and he has declined, so he's looking for 3+. I'm personally not a fan of Leino and wouldn't be interested in committing for longer than a year, and he's probably searching for multiyear contract.
Laich will be grossly overpaid, and I'd be very disappointed if Gillis decided to go that way. At 3 million, I wouldn't mind him as second/third line type of player, kinda like Malhotra but instead of excelling at defensive side of things has some offensive ability and scoring touch. Like Raymond with more size and grit (hence the 2.5 -> 3). 4 million however, no thank you. Those are the contracts that you look in a couple of years and think how to get rid of.
Gagne would be the best option, but considering the way he played second half of the season and playoffs I'm pretty sure he wants 4+ or close to 5. With his age and injury history, I'm not sure if the Canucks type of team can afford it or even take the risk of signing that kind of player in the first place.
What comes to other UFAs, Jussi Jokinen is kind of like Leino but more of a playmaker/passer than puck carrier. Not as skilled either, and even more of a perimeter player than Leino. So no thanks. Connolly is more like Gagne, maybe not as good all around but better on the powerplay and offensive zone. He would be cheaper though, and there might be room to take a one year risk with him. I'd prefer Cole though, they are in somewhat same situation and Cole type of player is a better fit.
Bergenheim at around 2mil (max) could be a nice "Higgins" type of player with maybe a bit more offensive upside, but Higgins might aswell be brought back (probably cheaper too).
One thing about Gagne is that by the time Raymond is about to come off IR, Gagne would probably be ready to go on it.
Leino has some excellent offensive potential but I think Laich is the best player.
Laich is real solid two way player who brings what they call the intangibles. He is captain material. Would be a great pick up but I don't know if the price would be right. However, if it was this is a no brainer - you take Laich in a heartbeat. Would love a line with both Kesler and Laich - would have the makings of the best two way line in the League.
Having said that, Leino seems a more realistic player to pursue.
I'm really not sold on Laich. I just get the feeling that he's gonna sign a big contract somewhere and end up not breaking 50 points and being a relative bust. From what I've seen in Washington he just doesn't seem like the stand out player that people are claiming he is.
I really wanna chalk up a lot of his production to the guys he played with. A good chunk of his point totals the last year or two have come from playing on a stacked PP with some combo of Ovie, Backstrom, Semin and Mike Green. Kesler is no slouch but I really see 50-55 points and maybe 20 goals as more of a ceiling for him, I don't think he has the kind of upside we want.
It's a sad year when Brooks Laich is being touted as one of the top 3 or 4 forwards available.
That to me is the problem, he's going to get grossly overpaid because teams have no option.
Standing back and looking at it does seem a little bit grass is greener
Laich (28): Mason Raymond's production (more physical) at $4m
Leino (28): Mason Raymond's production at $3.5m
Gagne (31): highest ceiling, good 2-way, injury risk high. $3.5m??
As I stated earlier on another thread, see who is willing to come on a deal. The Canucks are going for it all again next year, and someone who really really wants a cup may agree to a great price tag.
Gagne is perfect now that checking someone in the head is illegal
Gagne is only 4 years removed from back-to-back 40+ goal seasons. He has a good shot and is a great skater. If I'm Gillis I'm offering him up to 4 million as long as he doesn't want more than 2 years.
Hopefully his injury problems are behind him. If not, he goes on LTIR and you replace him with someone else mid-season. But if he stays healthy, the Canucks could be adding another 30 goal winger to the 2nd line. They could also move Samuelsson to play with the Sedins on the 1st PP unit and build an actual 2nd unit around Kesler/Gagne.
I guess all things considered, none of these guys is ENOUGH of what we want. If we want a grindy guy for the 2nd line, he's gotta be like the ultimate grindy guy (byfuglien) and if we want a playmaker, he has to be a really excellent playmaker (tanguay). The three guys in the thread title don't fit either of those roles quite enough...
Gagne, no question. We didn't lose to the Bruins because we were physically outmatched. We lost to the Bruins because our PP dried up - which is what happens when your 2nd unit PP is poo poo. Who would you rather anchor your 2nd unit PP? Laich, Leino or Gagne? I thought so.
Second, what's the point in becoming one of the premier UFA destinations if not to court guys exactly like Gagne and dare I say Richards? Sweet heart UFA contracts to play in a great environment with a great opportunity to win the Cup is why you can realistically target the big fish.
Let offense-starved lesser lights sign grit (and little else) or questionable character and consistency to flesh out their top 6. Vancouver has a good shot at signing true talent to complement an already elite core. That's how Detroit does it. That's who we're emulating.
I guess all things considered, none of these guys is ENOUGH of what we want. If we want a grindy guy for the 2nd line, he's gotta be like the ultimate grindy guy (byfuglien) and if we want a playmaker, he has to be a really excellent playmaker (tanguay). The three guys in the thread title don't fit either of those roles quite enough...
Actually what would really put the canucks over the top is a great all-around player like Crosby. But seeing as he is unlikely to land, Gillis has to go for someone else.
It won't be any of these guys, none of them are 'money-puck' enough for Gillis.
Laich and Leino are poor skaters, and Gagne is too expensive and enegmatic to fit well with this team. None of the three address the Canucks two needs - players who are willing to 'play outside the rulebook' when the refs throw it away, and players have cup rings.
I think that Scottie Upshall is a much better fit. He can play either wing, has great speed and is willing to play outside of the rulebook, which sadly seems to have been the undoing of this team in the final. Basically, he is a grittier and more versatile Mason Raymond. Could probably be had for $2.5.
The other guy that I look at is Corey Stillman. Two Cup rings, over 1,000 games in the NHL, and could actually organize the second PP into some kind of a threat. Yes, he is aging, but he did put up 16 points in 21 games down the strech. He would look good as the Mark Recchi of this team.
Other than adding one other real tough guy to the fourth line, like say Ben Eager who has both a ring and a willingness to stick up for his teammates when things get crazy, I would focus on getting Torres and Higgins re-signed.
Eager, Raymond (IR till at least the allstar break)
Not the biggest lineup, but if any team wants to start taking cheap shots at our star players there are plenty of guys who are willing to do the same right back.
Whale, you think signing a former two-time 40 goal scorer coming off injury problems that might be had for a relative bargain (given his history) is less money puck than wasting money on Ben Eager? That's a head scratcher.
It won't be any of these guys, none of them are 'money-puck' enough for Gillis.
Laich and Leino are poor skaters, and Gagne is too expensive and enegmatic to fit well with this team. None of the three address the Canucks two needs - players who are willing to 'play outside the rulebook' when the refs throw it away, and players have cup rings.
I think that Scottie Upshall is a much better fit. He can play either wing, has great speed and is willing to play outside of the rulebook, which sadly seems to have been the undoing of this team in the final. Basically, he is a grittier and more versatile Mason Raymond. Could probably be had for $2.5.
The other guy that I look at is Corey Stillman. Two Cup rings, over 1,000 games in the NHL, and could actually organize the second PP into some kind of a threat. Yes, he is aging, but he did put up 16 points in 21 games down the strech. He would look good as the Mark Recchi of this team.
Other than adding one other real tough guy to the fourth line, like say Ben Eager who has both a ring and a willingness to stick up for his teammates when things get crazy, I would focus on getting Torres and Higgins re-signed.
Eager, Raymond (IR till at least the allstar break)
Not the biggest lineup, but if any team wants to start taking cheap shots at our star players there are plenty of guys who are willing to do the same right back.
Eager is NOT a "real tough guy". Eager is a ***** in a big body who gets his ass handed to him by real tough guys.
Not the biggest lineup, but if any team wants to start taking cheap shots at our star players there are plenty of guys who are willing to do the same right back.
If I was Kesler I would be extremely disappointed if those are the best linemates Gillis could bring in. The Canucks have a 3 year window where they should be an elite team and the goal right now IMO should be finding a winger for Kesler with bonafide front line skill and a proven track record.
Not to mention that lineup wasn't any tougher, grittier or harder to play against than this year's team. Though I disagree that's the element that cost them the cup...
I would definately send an offer Simon Gagne's way. He's a perfect fit for AV's system and would compliment Kesler very well. You just have to be careful with the dollar figures due to his durability concerns.
