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Carter/Richards traded (Pt. 2); Quotes: Pronger (#100); Snider (#135); Carter (#954)

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06-25-2011, 12:12 PM
  #326
Spongolium*
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After i calmed down yesterday, I feel really bad for holmgren. Essentially i believe it came down to, do the deal or lose your job. You could see he was emotionally a wreck.

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06-25-2011, 12:14 PM
  #327
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
After i calmed down yesterday, I feel really bad for holmgren. Essentially i believe it came down to, do the deal or lose your job. You could see he was emotionally a wreck.
I honestly think homer has done a pretty remarkable job given the situation he had to face.

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06-25-2011, 12:15 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Spongolium View Post
After i calmed down yesterday, I feel really bad for holmgren. Essentially i believe it came down to, do the deal or lose your job. You could see he was emotionally a wreck.
Answer me this... if he hadn't F'd the cap around so badly a couple years ago and dealt for Roloson... do these trades happen?

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06-25-2011, 12:20 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Answer me this... if he hadn't F'd the cap around so badly a couple years ago and dealt for Roloson... do these trades happen?
Very likely that these trades still happen. You dont have to move your captain/allstar signed to a long term friendly cap hit to clear space.

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06-25-2011, 12:22 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
Very likely that these trades still happen. You dont have to move your captain/allstar signed to a long term friendly cap hit to clear space.
Bingo.

Does anybody seriously think Richards was moved just to clear cap space?

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06-25-2011, 12:24 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Answer me this... if he hadn't F'd the cap around so badly a couple years ago and dealt for Roloson... do these trades happen?
Yes, they do.

I'm thoroughly convinced of that at this point.

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06-25-2011, 12:33 PM
  #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
Answer me this... if he hadn't F'd the cap around so badly a couple years ago and dealt for Roloson... do these trades happen?
Without a doubt they still happen. We've seen Homer work with pennies under the cap for a couple seasons, I'm sure he wouldve done it again this year I the mandate to overhaul the team didn't come from above. Yes I'm convince like others that this directive came from the top.

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06-25-2011, 12:36 PM
  #333
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You think this organization blows itself up a year after winning the Cup? Really?

I think everyone is underestimating how much this is simply a reaction to a disappointing year. A predictably disappointing year. We've heard not one thing "new" about Richards and Carter since we lost in Game 6 to Chicago... in fact, according to Chris Therien most of the partying had dissipated.

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06-25-2011, 12:38 PM
  #334
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So, what crutches? Will someone please stop beating around the bush and have the balls to say something? This is ****ing ridiculous.
Reposting to see if anyone will take up the offer of elaborating on the veiled insinuations that have been going on...

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06-25-2011, 12:42 PM
  #335
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You think this organization blows itself up a year after winning the Cup? Really?

I think everyone is underestimating how much this is simply a reaction to a disappointing year. A predictably disappointing year. We've heard not one thing "new" about Richards and Carter since we lost in Game 6 to Chicago... in fact, according to Chris Therien most of the partying had dissipated.
This is just not a reaction to a dissapointing year. They do not have a bunch of complete apes for hockey minds. You can make your argument that they might, but anyone that has been around hockey knows that there will be an off year here and there, this was a long drawn out process that eventually came to a head and a decision had to be made.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 06-25-2011 at 03:48 PM.
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06-25-2011, 12:42 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by healthyscratch View Post
Reposting to see if anyone will take up the offer of elaborating on the veiled insinuations that have been going on...
This site has a policy regarding libel as specified within the rules. That is the reason we have removed comments that other sites have mentioned. We really don't want to go down that road.

Just a reminder:

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13) Libel: Any posts libeling players, prospects, or hockey personnel. It's not acceptable to post that you heard Player X has a drinking/drug/sex/personal problem from a "good" source. Do not post information that can be considered defamatory without a link to a credible media source. Other forums, personal websites, hearsay, and personal testimonials are not considered credible.

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06-25-2011, 12:45 PM
  #337
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This site has a policy regarding libel as specified within the rules. That is the reason we have removed comments that other sites have mentioned. We really don't want to go down that road.

Just a reminder:
Shouldn't insinuations also fall under this category? People all over keep saying things that make the rest of us think something really horrible happened and they seem to know things the rest of us don't. I don't think that's fair, either.

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06-25-2011, 12:47 PM
  #338
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http://www.nhl.com/ice/news.htm?id=5...d-rr-headlines

Quote:
ST. PAUL -- In the eyes of Bob Clarke, the complexion of the Philadelphia Flyers certainly changed this week.

"But from our standpoint, it's for the better," Clarke, the team's senior vice president, told NHL.com on the floor at the 2011 NHL Entry Draft. "It'll be a different team -- bigger, faster, younger and stronger."

The Flyers made a major organizational shakeup on Thursday by trading Jeff Carter and captain Mike Richards in separate deals with Columbus and Los Angeles that reverberated throughout the hockey community. In return, they reeled in top prospect Brayden Schenn and promising young players Jakub Voracek and Wayne Simmonds. General Manager Paul Holmgren also acquired the No. 8 pick and a third-round choice (No. 68) in the 2011 Draft via the deal with Columbus for Carter.

"I think that Paul Holmgren thought about (these trades) a lot and did what he thought was right for the team and all of us who are a part of the organization certainly support what he did," Clarke said. "He's made our team better. We realize we gave up two very good players and you hope it's a deal that turns out good for the Flyers, Los Angeles and Columbus.

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06-25-2011, 12:50 PM
  #339
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Shouldn't insinuations also fall under this category? People all over keep saying things that make the rest of us think something really horrible happened and they seem to know things the rest of us don't. I don't think that's fair, either.
If it falls under the criteria of what is listed within site rules, it should be removed as we try to do. We went through this with the rumors about Carter/Hartnell and those were removed until an article was written on Philly.com which dealt with a possible lawsuit.

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06-25-2011, 12:55 PM
  #340
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Originally Posted by OrangeCrush28 View Post
This is just not a reaction to a dissapointing year. They do not have a bunch of complete yard apes for hockey minds. You can make your argument that they might, but anyone that has been around hockey knows that there will be an off year here and there, this was a long drawn out process that eventually came to a head and a decision had to be made.
The insinuation is pretty clear on everything that has gone down here, and a lot of it stems from Snider sitting there watching the team lose (to Thomas) and then watching Boston win (with Thomas). Do I think there are other factors motivating the decision to move Carter and Richards? Yes. Do I think those motivating factors magically appeared since the season ended? No. Do I think those motivating factors existed when this organization (apparently using the mental capacity of apes) signed Carter to an 11-year deal? Yes.

Do I think those motivating factors result in a trade if Mike Richards is a Stanley Cup winning captain of the Philadelphia Flyers? No. I think everyone is fooling themselves if they think otherwise.

If these factors were such a problem on a winning team that everyone was excited about then Carter never gets signed to that deal (Snider puts the kibosh on it) and we make a deal last summer with one of them.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 06-25-2011 at 03:27 PM.
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06-25-2011, 02:28 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
The insinuation is pretty clear on everything that has gone down here, and a lot of it stems from Snider sitting there watching the team lose (to Thomas) and then watching Boston win (with Thomas). Do I think there are other factors motivating the decision to move Carter and Richards? Yes. Do I think those motivating factors magically appeared since the season ended? No. Do I think those motivating factors existed when this organization (apparently using the mental capacity of apes) signed Carter to an 11-year deal? Yes.

Do I think those motivating factors result in a trade if Mike Richards is a Stanley Cup winning captain of the Philadelphia Flyers? No. I think everyone is fooling themselves if they think otherwise.

If these factors were such a problem on a winning team that everyone was excited about then Carter never gets signed to that deal (Snider puts the kibosh on it) and we make a deal last summer with one of them.


Of course winning a stanley cup makes you forget about everything because who cares at that point right? The goal is to win the cup no matter what. There is truly no point anymore, what is done is done, they obviously felt they had to do this and we will see how it turns out.


Last edited by Beef Invictus: 06-25-2011 at 03:27 PM.
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06-25-2011, 02:33 PM
  #342
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06-25-2011, 03:36 PM
  #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You think this organization blows itself up a year after winning the Cup? Really?

I think everyone is underestimating how much this is simply a reaction to a disappointing year. A predictably disappointing year. We've heard not one thing "new" about Richards and Carter since we lost in Game 6 to Chicago... in fact, according to Chris Therien most of the partying had dissipated.
I didn't realize getting Roloson = automatic Stanley Cup.

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06-25-2011, 04:01 PM
  #344
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Originally Posted by KimiFerrari View Post
I didn't realize getting Roloson = automatic Stanley Cup.
You replace Leighton with competence, and we beat Chicago.

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06-25-2011, 04:14 PM
  #345
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Can't say I blame Carter one bit.

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06-25-2011, 05:54 PM
  #346
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You replace Leighton with competence, and we beat Chicago.

oh geez.
roloson = cup

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06-25-2011, 06:04 PM
  #347
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You replace Leighton with competence, and we beat Chicago.
I don't know about that.

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06-25-2011, 06:35 PM
  #348
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Bingo.

Does anybody seriously think Richards was moved just to clear cap space?
I don't think he was, but I'm with Jester. I absolutely believe both were moved for a culture change, but if they win the Cup obviously there is no need for such a move because they would have proven they had what it takes to win despite whatever issues existed. So yes, had Holmgren acquired a better goalie than Leighton we may not be sitting here today. Everything is viewed differently if they are champions and Snider likely has more patience.

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06-25-2011, 08:07 PM
  #349
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You replace Leighton with competence, and we beat Chicago.
No one knows what would have happened.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Butterfly_effect

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06-25-2011, 08:09 PM
  #350
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Signing a guy to a long term contract can also end up as a favor to the player. If Jeff Carter blows his knee out tomorrow, he should invite Holmgren over for Christmas dinner every year thereafter or something. Same for Richards' shoulder or something.

I also would tend to think that the message from management to Richards and Carter with the long-term deals was along the lines of "We are committing to you for a long time and will give you the NTC when we are able to per CBA, however until that time we will entertain any offers which we believe will make our organization better moving forward."

This means: treat your team and the staff with respect and work hard over the offseason to become a better hockey player, not a more well-laid young athlete. Yes, you can live your life and party. But you need to be committed 100% to the team and one little action or comment by Richards or Carter can be grounds for Snider to feel you need to go. I think nobody should feel above the team. Nobody cares about what you do off the ice as long as the team comes first.

I know that nobody could or should argue that Richards didn't give 100% on the ice, and Carter, for the most part, I feel gave 100% effort 85% of the time. But everybody knows that there is more to playing a role on a winning team than the contributions made on the ice.

"Chemistry"/cohesion was affected and that is not a winning formula...and Holmgren seemingly agreed.

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