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Carter/Richards traded (Pt. 2); Quotes: Pronger (#100); Snider (#135); Carter (#954)

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06-25-2011, 09:57 PM
  #351
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Originally Posted by bleedorange View Post
Yeah, that is a bummer. I'd be freaking out if I was Carter. Taking a lower cap hit and planning to end my career in Philly, then being traded less than a year later. I feel bad for the guy but in the end, it's a business.

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06-25-2011, 09:58 PM
  #352
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Originally Posted by Jester View Post
You think this organization blows itself up a year after winning the Cup? Really?

I think everyone is underestimating how much this is simply a reaction to a disappointing year. A predictably disappointing year. We've heard not one thing "new" about Richards and Carter since we lost in Game 6 to Chicago... in fact, according to Chris Therien most of the partying had dissipated.
How'come you only use hypotheticals when they support your position but discredit them when someone uses them as a counterpoint against your position?

Your point about Roloson implies that we would have won the Cup with him (or any goalie upgrade) when the entire team (save a few players) **** the bed........

No team is going to trade the quality of players the Flyers just did because of an overreaction to a bad year. Something else was going on, and we fans may never find out about it.

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06-25-2011, 10:02 PM
  #353
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Originally Posted by DrinkFightFlyers View Post
Yeah, that is a bummer. I'd be freaking out if I was Carter. Taking a lower cap hit and planning to end my career in Philly, then being traded less than a year later. I feel bad for the guy but in the end, it's a business.
Im not saing its right, but this is why you get everything in writing..... Carter just learned a lesson in business and the Flyers will eventually learn a lesson in ethics.

Feel bad for the guy, though.,

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06-25-2011, 10:06 PM
  #354
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Quote:
Originally Posted by StevensCakeBakerBacker View Post
Im not saing its right, but this is why you get everything in writing..... Carter just learned a lesson in business and the Flyers will eventually learn a lesson in ethics.

Feel bad for the guy, though.,
He did get it in writing I'm sure. But his contract didn't take effect until this July. I don't think the league will allow you to modify existing contracts.

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06-25-2011, 10:41 PM
  #355
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Originally Posted by Giroux tha Damaja View Post
He did get it in writing I'm sure. But his contract didn't take effect until this July. I don't think the league will allow you to modify existing contracts.
I'm wondering how or why his NTC doesn't follow him to Columbus with the rest of the contract? Don't those types of things usually remain in effect, even after the player waives it for a one-time move?

If the rest of the contract kicks in, I would think it's an all-or-nothing deal. If I was Carter, I'd have the player's association looking into it.

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06-25-2011, 10:48 PM
  #356
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If Carter's agent is being serious about an "offer sheet" in 08, then the league should look into it. Carter was signed before free agency started in 08, if they had one in hand then there is a severe case of tampering going on, which the league does not look too kindly on.

secondly....it is a business...sad to see him go, but seriously he is acting like a spoiled child...and his agent is acting worse.

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06-25-2011, 10:54 PM
  #357
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Originally Posted by Pyzik View Post
If Carter's agent is being serious about an "offer sheet" in 08, then the league should look into it. Carter was signed before free agency started in 08, if they had one in hand then there is a severe case of tampering going on, which the league does not look too kindly on.

secondly....it is a business...sad to see him go, but seriously he is acting like a spoiled child...and his agent is acting worse.
I agree. Investigation needs to happen.

I have to think the organization will go after it now that the draft is out of the way.

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06-25-2011, 10:59 PM
  #358
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Originally Posted by Pyzik View Post
If Carter's agent is being serious about an "offer sheet" in 08, then the league should look into it. Carter was signed before free agency started in 08, if they had one in hand then there is a severe case of tampering going on, which the league does not look too kindly on.
Wow, that's a huge screwup on his part to let that slip.

Probably tough to prove 3 yesrs later, but still.

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06-25-2011, 11:33 PM
  #359
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Originally Posted by Beef Invictus View Post
I agree. Investigation needs to happen.

I have to think the organization will go after it now that the draft is out of the way.
Nope, the agent is right: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Offer_sheet

As far as getting everything in writing, the part Carter is pissed at is that a week before the trade, his agent was assured by Homer there would be no trade. Homer then told the agent to have Carter come in and talk to him so he did and Homer lied again. A few days later, boom, you're traded.

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06-25-2011, 11:41 PM
  #360
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Here is my take on it all:

I don't buy any of the innuendo about off-ice problems with Carter and Richards. I believe they are like pretty much any young millionaire hockey players and drink/party but not to the detriment of their game (they are star players, one made the Olympic team, the other barely missed). If anything perhaps they had a bit of sense of entitlement (as the "faces of the franchise") that rubbed the older guys the wrong way.

I think management decided that Giroux and JVR had become their best young players. Carter and Richards have been slowed by several injuries. Richie is not a big guy and gives it 100% and that takes a toll on the body. Carter has just had some terrible luck. Management saw weakness in net and on the wing and wanted to keep the D together. They saw how Boston dominated them with speed, size and goaltending. Something had to give and they explored trade offers. They found willing partners offering significant assets - 2 big fast wingers that can play now. The #1 rated NHL prospect and a very high draft pick. Essentially they turned Richards and Carter into potential 18 and 19 year old versions of them in Schenn and Couturier and added 2 solid wingers, 2 more picks, cap room to sign Bryz/Leino... future cap room/flexibility to deal with JVR, Giroux, Coburn when they re-up. My take is it was business. Heart-breaking for many involved but business none the less.

I also know a friend of Richie (from the lake) and she said he was very upset and surprised on Thurs but ready to move on to LA. She heard that Carter was in worse shape and "not going down without a fight." Not sure what that means but I don't think he has any recourse. He was traded. His NTC had not kicked in yet. I feel horrible for him.

I've got a Richards jersey, signed puck, Carter shirt, countless hockey cards, etc. I thought they were there forever. Sad to see them go but I can live with it. Wish them all the best, unless they meet the Flyers in the Finals. I'll be there when the Flyers and Kings come to play the Jets!

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06-26-2011, 03:03 AM
  #361
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Richards goes to a bonafide cup contender where he isn't even going to be the best center.
Carter goes to Columbus..

The flyers have resupplied themselves with prospects, something this organization has lacked, and now people want to complain?

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06-26-2011, 03:39 AM
  #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlr View Post
I'm wondering how or why his NTC doesn't follow him to Columbus with the rest of the contract? Don't those types of things usually remain in effect, even after the player waives it for a one-time move?

If the rest of the contract kicks in, I would think it's an all-or-nothing deal. If I was Carter, I'd have the player's association looking into it.
Perhaps it was in the CBA, that no-trade clauses can't follow players beyond the franchise that initially signed them to the contract. Thus Carter couldn't get it written into his contract otherwise the NHL wouldn't have approved it as it would be in violation of the CBA?.

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06-26-2011, 03:50 AM
  #363
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These trades will have SERIOUS ramifications when it comes to signing JVR and Giroux to long-term deals.

Why would they take a salary hit for long term deals knowing full well that a)promises from the GM don't mean anything and b)they might get traded after committing to those lower-than-market numbers.

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06-26-2011, 03:54 AM
  #364
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Originally Posted by triqsix View Post
These trades will have SERIOUS ramifications when it comes to signing JVR and Giroux to long-term deals.

Why would they take a salary hit for long term deals knowing full well that a)promises from the GM don't mean anything and b)they might get traded after committing to those lower-than-market numbers.
I think those players and agents would just be a little more careful with their contracts... can they have it in their contract that they aren't allowed to be traded before it kicks in or something?

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06-26-2011, 03:57 AM
  #365
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I think those players and agents would just be a little more careful with their contracts... can they have it in their contract that they aren't allowed to be traded before it kicks in or something?
That would just mean they don't sign until after their current deal is up... and they make sure there is a NMC.

Either way, how do you think JVR and Giroux feel? The once proclaimed faces of the franchise were just traded and now they are being called the very same thing.. if I was JVR, I would think very hard about signing a deal with Homer.

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06-26-2011, 07:42 AM
  #366
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Originally Posted by triqsix View Post
These trades will have SERIOUS ramifications when it comes to signing JVR and Giroux to long-term deals.

Why would they take a salary hit for long term deals knowing full well that a)promises from the GM don't mean anything and b)they might get traded after committing to those lower-than-market numbers.
Nah man, if I'm Giroux I take that 12 year deal at a low cap hit, I mean its not like he'll have any young centers breathing down his neck in 3 years

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06-26-2011, 07:43 AM
  #367
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Originally Posted by Beastieboy View Post
Here is my take on it all:

I don't buy any of the innuendo about off-ice problems with Carter and Richards. I believe they are like pretty much any young millionaire hockey players and drink/party but not to the detriment of their game (they are star players, one made the Olympic team, the other barely missed). If anything perhaps they had a bit of sense of entitlement (as the "faces of the franchise") that rubbed the older guys the wrong way.

I think management decided that Giroux and JVR had become their best young players. Carter and Richards have been slowed by several injuries. Richie is not a big guy and gives it 100% and that takes a toll on the body. Carter has just had some terrible luck. Management saw weakness in net and on the wing and wanted to keep the D together. They saw how Boston dominated them with speed, size and goaltending. Something had to give and they explored trade offers. They found willing partners offering significant assets - 2 big fast wingers that can play now. The #1 rated NHL prospect and a very high draft pick. Essentially they turned Richards and Carter into potential 18 and 19 year old versions of them in Schenn and Couturier and added 2 solid wingers, 2 more picks, cap room to sign Bryz/Leino... future cap room/flexibility to deal with JVR, Giroux, Coburn when they re-up. My take is it was business. Heart-breaking for many involved but business none the less.

I also know a friend of Richie (from the lake) and she said he was very upset and surprised on Thurs but ready to move on to LA. She heard that Carter was in worse shape and "not going down without a fight." Not sure what that means but I don't think he has any recourse. He was traded. His NTC had not kicked in yet. I feel horrible for him.

I've got a Richards jersey, signed puck, Carter shirt, countless hockey cards, etc. I thought they were there forever. Sad to see them go but I can live with it. Wish them all the best, unless they meet the Flyers in the Finals. I'll be there when the Flyers and Kings come to play the Jets!
+1. I don't agree with those who are questioning the Flyer's ethics in these trades. This was business. Nothing at all unethical about following the dictates of a contract -- I can guarantee you that both Richards and Carter would have insisted on it once their NTCs kicked in. As to Giroux and JVR -- maybe they would turn down $50 million contracts merely because Carter and Richards were traded, but I suspect they, and their agents, are smart enough to assess the situation and see it for what it was -- a business decision that didn't hurt either Richards or Carter financially, and arguably didn't hurt Richards in terms of his chances of winning a cup, either. When Richards and Carter signed those long-term contracts, the per-year amount may have been "below market" but the total, guaranteed dollars were very, very nice.


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06-26-2011, 07:52 AM
  #368
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Seems like Richards got shopped for over a week.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bre...124537554.html

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06-26-2011, 09:16 AM
  #369
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Originally Posted by dookie88 View Post
Seems like Richards got shopped for over a week.

http://www.winnipegfreepress.com/bre...124537554.html
And all this time I thought Eskin was talking out of his ass like usual.

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06-26-2011, 09:23 AM
  #370
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Originally Posted by nyhiflyer View Post
As to Giroux and JVR -- maybe they would turn down $50 million contracts merely because Carter and Richards were traded, but I suspect they, and their agents, are smart enough to assess the situation and see it for what it was -- a business decision that didn't hurt either Richards or Carter financially, and arguably didn't hurt Richards in terms of his chances of winning a cup, either.
I would bet that both JVR/Roo and their agents don't sign anything past the UFA date, and then contemplate a longer term contract with a NTC/NMC, which will cost the Flyers more money and cap space than the Richards or Carter deals in the long run. The deals Richards and Carter signed absolutely cost them financially - if they had hit the open market, you can bet they'd be making more money than they are, particularly if the cap continues to increase.

Carter, more than Richards, got screwed over significantly and is now at the mercy of the Columbus Blue Jackets for the next 11 years. If they don't want to move him, he's stuck in the middle of Ohio with no options other than to sit out. If JVR or Roo are willing to take that chance, then I guess they get what they deserve.

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06-26-2011, 09:29 AM
  #371
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That would just mean they don't sign until after their current deal is up... and they make sure there is a NMC.

Either way, how do you think JVR and Giroux feel? The once proclaimed faces of the franchise were just traded and now they are being called the very same thing.. if I was JVR, I would think very hard about signing a deal with Homer.
Why are we to assume that the next guys are affected? Maybe they're happy that Richie and Carter are gone? They didn't sound too devastated in their quotes, in fact they sounded upbeat and excited at the opportunity presented to them.

Or how about Homer just doesn't make any promises, but by the sound of his quote he made it seem that Curran was exaggerating a bit.

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06-26-2011, 09:39 AM
  #372
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How'come you only use hypotheticals when they support your position but discredit them when someone uses them as a counterpoint against your position?

Your point about Roloson implies that we would have won the Cup with him (or any goalie upgrade) when the entire team (save a few players) **** the bed........

No team is going to trade the quality of players the Flyers just did because of an overreaction to a bad year. Something else was going on, and we fans may never find out about it.
1) I dismiss hypotheticals I don't buy. Everyone does.

2) everyone shat the bed when we lost in game6 to the hawks?

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06-26-2011, 09:40 AM
  #373
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Richards goes to a bonafide cup contender where he isn't even going to be the best center.
Carter goes to Columbus..

The flyers have resupplied themselves with prospects, something this organization has lacked, and now people want to complain?
Yeah, cuz we aren't winning a cup next year unless something truly stupendous happens with these young kids.

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06-26-2011, 09:56 AM
  #374
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Why are we to assume that the next guys are affected? Maybe they're happy that Richie and Carter are gone? They didn't sound too devastated in their quotes, in fact they sounded upbeat and excited at the opportunity presented to them.

Or how about Homer just doesn't make any promises, but by the sound of his quote he made it seem that Curran was exaggerating a bit.
What exactly did you expect them to say? They basically got promoted as the faces of the franchise so of course they're excited.

Homer didn't deny it. Curran said a hell of a lot more than Homer did, he gave specific details about what happened in several meetings/phone calls while Homer pretty much gave a one sentence answer. Carter left a ******** of money on the table for the team and there will be ramifications with other players down the road. But hey, we now have enough to give Ville ****ing Leino the 4 million a year he thinks he deserves!

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06-26-2011, 10:04 AM
  #375
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Toronto was mentioned earlier in the thread...

http://www.torontosun.com/2011/06/25...snt-even-close

Quote:
TORONTO - Just how close did the Maple Leafs come to landing Mike Richards from Philadelphia?

Answer: Not close at all.

While there were rumblings the past few days that Brian Burke was in the mix in trying to attain the Flyers’ captain, he was, in truth, in the conversation. Some have gone so far to report that Philadelphia general manager Paul Holmgren asked for Nazim Kadri and Nikolai Kulemin and a draft pick in exchange for Richards which isn’t exactly true.

The Leafs won’t confirm this, but they would have made the Richards deal for Kadri and Kulemin if Holmgren would have accepted it.

Bottom line was, Holmgren was looking for more. When Los Angeles offered up centre Brayden Schenn, winger Wayne Simmonds and a second-round choice, the Leafs have nothing they could offer of similar value — and Philadelphia found their price met in exchange for the man they no longer wanted as captain.

This is the difficulty Burke often finds in the trade market. There are players he wants who are available. There are deals to be made.

But with a limited roster, it’s tough to close on a big trade when you have so few cards in your deck.

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