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[CHI/WSH] Troy Brouwer for 26th Pick

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Old
06-26-2011, 08:14 PM
  #251
sunnydaycrash
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Originally Posted by SwedeSpeedBackstrom View Post
Does anybody seriously think we can contend with current management and coaching?

Seriously?
I do.....they do need another center, maybe Richards,....sign Hannan, trade Schultz, let Laich walk....GMGM does have to make a few changes/ upgrades but I don`t see why not.

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06-26-2011, 08:29 PM
  #252
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Originally Posted by sunnydaycrash View Post
I do.....they do need another center, maybe Richards,....sign Hannan, trade Schultz, let Laich walk....GMGM does have to make a few changes/ upgrades but I don`t see why not.

I've learned to never say never, but I would bet a whole lot on Richards not wearing a Capitals uniform next semester.

I think a trade for Weiss is worth exploring, but Florida would probably want young assets or a salary dump on a short contract. Not sure what prospects we would have to give up, but Semin seems to fit the second description. Florida also might make us pay more than any other potential suitors because we're in their division

FWIW, I'm not ready to give up on Semin.... we're not up against the cap ceiling, and I want to see what he can do with a legit play-making center setting him up. If Weiss moves in and Semin moves out, who is going to scare opposing D's on the 2nd line? I don't think rolling a second line of Laich and Fehr or Brouwer and Fehr at wing is a recipe for success.

IF we can add a 2C, I'm beginning to think forwards will look something like:

Ovechkin - Backstrom - Knuble
Fehr - 2C - Semin
Chimera - MoJo - Brouwer
Hendricks - Gordon - Sjorgren

Time will tell...

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06-26-2011, 08:33 PM
  #253
NobodyBeatsTheWiz
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Originally Posted by Marshall View Post
Then don't speak in absolutes.

If stats are your argument, then I won't peruse this. No reason to.

Laich as a leader? Okay. It does seem that folks consider talking into a microphone to be leadership.Actually, it seems some love it.
I'm not speaking in absolutes. I'm giving my opinion.

Laich has been repeatedly labeled a fringe 2nd-liner on these boards. His production and ability show he's more than that.

What's wrong with using stats in an argument? Top-6 forwards are expected to produce statistically and are paid for that production.

And I didn't mention Laich being a leader or anything about his leadership ability at all.

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06-26-2011, 08:42 PM
  #254
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Originally Posted by Millhaus View Post
Except without Semin Laich is not anywhere close to the offensive player he is going to get paid for being.

Laich is a 3rd line talent who has been lucky enough to play regularly with a 1st line talent in Semin.
Disagree.

In 2007-08, Laich's most common linemates at even strength were Donald Brashear, Matt Pettinger, and Boyd Gordon. He scored 21 goals in the 8th most PP ice time among forwards and, I'm sure everyone can agree, he's improved significantly as a player since then. The guy's also never had real center.

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06-26-2011, 08:52 PM
  #255
Robert Theodorson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnydaycrash View Post
I do.....they do need another center, maybe Richards,....sign Hannan, trade Schultz, let Laich walk....GMGM does have to make a few changes/ upgrades but I don`t see why not.
I agree with you, what I was saying is I don't believe these changes will be made, nor will coaching be able to extract all the effort it needs from the players.

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06-26-2011, 08:54 PM
  #256
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Originally Posted by SwedeSpeedBackstrom View Post
Does anybody seriously think we can contend with current management and coaching?

Seriously?
seriously? i know what no shot looks like. it doesnt look like the capitals.

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06-26-2011, 10:50 PM
  #257
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Originally Posted by SwedeSpeedBackstrom View Post
I agree with you, what I was saying is I don't believe these changes will be made, nor will coaching be able to extract all the effort it needs from the players.
You see the light.

Their best shot with Bruce (or without) is replacing Semin's contract with leadership and character at the C position.

If they don't do that they'll continue to be the Paper Tigers they've been for half a ****ing decade now.

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06-26-2011, 11:08 PM
  #258
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunnydaycrash View Post
I do.....they do need another center, maybe Richards,....sign Hannan, trade Schultz, let Laich walk....GMGM does have to make a few changes/ upgrades but I don`t see why not.
Winner. Doesn't address bottom of roster. But that could be done at deadline. Resign arnott. Swing C but primarily a winger.

Strong leadership in Richards, arnott, knubes, Brouwer. Strong top 2 lines, at C and D. Sets you up nicely.

Haven't ran any numbers. So who knows if 7M for Richards and 3M for arnott and 3M for hannan work. Add dump fehr if needed.

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06-27-2011, 06:43 AM
  #259
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Gotta apologize to NBTW, the tone of my posts were rude. My mistake.

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06-27-2011, 06:52 AM
  #260
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This is the problem I see... Bruce cant seem to extract all the effort needed from the players.

We have all seen Green Semin and Nick dominate. They appear burned out or tuned out. Its dumb to blow up a decent roster when a team underperforms. A guy like Brouwer, hits all year. Bradley only hits when the playoffs start. So when the playoffs start, Bradley and his linemates have had no practice... hitting, and translating it to goals. Sarge started hitting in the playoffs. Is his pair used to that? Had they practiced it at all? Stepping up your game in the playoffs is counter productive when running around doing new things.

Bradley could hit all year just like Brouwer. And make twice as much money. Sarge could hit all year too. Semin could be closer to god mode more often. Green could bring offense, instead of letting Yzerman dictate his play style. Bruce said he asked Green to be more offensive, his request tuned out.

I dont see Bruce getting the team prepared for the playoffs. We learned defense, rah. We didnt see it when it became obvious we were the inferior team. but its more than defense. Solid defense should be a given by now. Its effort.

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06-27-2011, 07:06 AM
  #261
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richards? are there people here really thinking that could happen? he is going to tampa bay unless the flyers blow the lightning salary cap up with a ridiculous offer sheet on stamkos

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06-27-2011, 07:11 AM
  #262
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
This is the problem I see... Bruce cant seem to extract all the effort needed from the players.

We have all seen Green Semin and Nick dominate. They appear burned out or tuned out. Its dumb to blow up a decent roster when a team underperforms. A guy like Brouwer, hits all year. Bradley only hits when the playoffs start. So when the playoffs start, Bradley and his linemates have had no practice... hitting, and translating it to goals. Sarge started hitting in the playoffs. Is his pair used to that? Had they practiced it at all? Stepping up your game in the playoffs is counter productive when running around doing new things.

Bradley could hit all year just like Brouwer. And make twice as much money. Sarge could hit all year too. Semin could be closer to god mode more often. Green could bring offense, instead of letting Yzerman dictate his play style. Bruce said he asked Green to be more offensive, his request tuned out.

I dont see Bruce getting the team prepared for the playoffs. We learned defense, rah. We didnt see it when it became obvious we were the inferior team. but its more than defense. Solid defense should be a given by now. Its effort.
I agree that the biggest problems look to be effort and/or preparation. Seeing how poorly they played in most of their Game 7s both surprised and disgusted me. The one against Philly being really the lone exception.

What was their goal differential in first periods this year? Wasn't it one of the worst in the league?

The more I think about it, the more I'd like to see BB replaced, but I think the only chance of that happening is an extended mid-season slide. I was one of those willing to give him some rope, but he essentially just choked himself with it.

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06-27-2011, 07:45 AM
  #263
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I was at that Philly game 7. Red line. upper box, row 1. that could have been the best night of our lives. We're all gonna get laid! Not. Instead, it was the worst.

Looking back, that Flyers series, I think our players gave more in that series, than any of the other 5 after that. Public Enemy number 1 Alex Semin, bloodied, like a captain, led that fight back. Green, dropped the gloves and pulled a Gordie Hattie. Ovi was Ovi. Our studs led the way and it was easy to see them giving FULL effort.

TXPD laughs at the suggestion that the ship is sinking. I always grade players and coaches heavily on playoffs. I see Bruce at best adrift, if not taking on water. We are clearly flatlining or regressing. Our last 4 playoff series: Pitt, Montreal, Rangers, Tampa. So 1-3 in our last 4.

Guys like Brouwer or Arnott may be able to lead by example, get the others to follow, and do Bruce's job for him. But they shouldnt have to. Nice the way I stayed on topic heh.

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06-27-2011, 08:04 AM
  #264
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Now that Im back from vacation I can weigh in a bit more on this trade.

I love it. Been screaming for a late first rounder for a solid player trade for three years now so finally glad they pulled the trigger on one. And I really like that its Brouwer, always liked his game clear back to his draft year.

I havent had a chance to read through the entire thread yet, but I'm not sure this is the demise of Laich in DC, but it has to be a contingency plan of sorts.

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06-27-2011, 08:10 AM
  #265
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Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
I am saying the ship has holes in it and I suggest you put on your life jacket. I'm piloting the helicopter and RHolt, Ero and Brooklyn can hop in if they want when she tips.
George is up in the helicopter watching. The ship has hit some bergs and is taking on a little bit of water. The onus is on George to access the situation, and drop a line or radio in for outside help.

The time to change was December, or May. George missed the boat. Twice. I think Bruce will be facing heat again this December, the moves George makes this summer, perhaps unneeded. Will Bradley Sarge Green and Semin give their all physically this fall for Bruce? No. They will watch Brouwer, and then try to copy him when the playoffs start.

I fear he is going to pull the strings on a risky big deal before simply letting the XO steer the ship and fire up the crew to fix that shiat. If he blows it in a big deal where he doesnt get value, its going to hurt the team. And that could sink ole Bettie. Many teams rebuild fail to land a cup, and then end up rebuilding again. Its fairly common, right? Whats the rebuild = cup %.

Off topic, why doesnt a single person ever wear a life preserver when wading into rough ocean current?


Last edited by RandyHolt: 06-27-2011 at 08:26 AM.
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06-27-2011, 08:18 AM
  #266
Vabeachblue
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I like what gmgm did with getting brouwer, he is the type of guy we need. BB i fear will be coaching this team next season though.

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06-27-2011, 08:25 AM
  #267
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Originally Posted by Dirtbag59 View Post
I can see the comments we would have gotten had we taken Namestnikov.

"Oh no not a another Euro."

"McPhee never adds grit and physicallity."

"Not another skill player"

"The team needs veterans not draft picks."

"He's like 5 pounds soaking wet."
Exactly no matter what GMGM does he would be criticized.

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06-27-2011, 08:29 AM
  #268
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Originally Posted by RandyHolt View Post
Looking back, that Flyers series, I think our players gave more in that series, than any of the other 5 after that.
Agreed. It was their most physical, in part because of their opponent but they really battled. The ironic thing is that was probably the worst roster they've had entering the playoffs, certainly as far as depth goes, yet they were playing on a higher level collectively. They had established a rhythm heading into the playoffs and that's something they haven't really managed to do in any spring since then. They were also clearly a hungry team and that bite in their game has been lacking since. Brouwer's a decent start towards getting that element back into their game but just that...a start.

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06-27-2011, 09:14 AM
  #269
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Originally Posted by strungout View Post
Now that Im back from vacation I can weigh in a bit more on this trade.

I love it. Been screaming for a late first rounder for a solid player trade for three years now so finally glad they pulled the trigger on one. And I really like that its Brouwer, always liked his game clear back to his draft year.

I havent had a chance to read through the entire thread yet, but I'm not sure this is the demise of Laich in DC, but it has to be a contingency plan of sorts.
I agree, the Hawks are my #2 team and I always liked Brouwer. Nothing flashy but scores a few goals and hits a lot. Caps are deep enough on young talent where they didn't need the pick this year in a mediocre draft. I like it.

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06-27-2011, 09:21 AM
  #270
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
Disagree.

In 2007-08, Laich's most common linemates at even strength were Donald Brashear, Matt Pettinger, and Boyd Gordon. He scored 21 goals in the 8th most PP ice time among forwards and, I'm sure everyone can agree, he's improved significantly as a player since then. The guy's also never had real center.
Sure but the vast majority of his production that season was in February, March, and April where he got better linemates and also started to get a decent amount of PP time. So season long linemate stats are very misleading there. In those last 3 months he score 13 goals, 7 on the PP, and added 9 assists in 30 games. Before that he put up 8 goals, 1 on the PP, and added 7 assists in 52 games.

Better linemates and a regular role on the PP resulted in production a decent amount above his own abilities and that has always been the case with him. Laich's one 'skill' that is above the standard 3rd liner's level is his ability to play off better players so he can be part of a scoring line if there is legit scoring line talent also on the line. But a line of Laich's is not a scoring line, it is a 3rd line because there is a serious lack of talent there.

Is that guy worth the $4.5+ mil someone will give him? Not in a million years.

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06-27-2011, 09:42 AM
  #271
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
I'm not speaking in absolutes. I'm giving my opinion.

Laich has been repeatedly labeled a fringe 2nd-liner on these boards. His production and ability show he's more than that.

What's wrong with using stats in an argument? Top-6 forwards are expected to produce statistically and are paid for that production.

And I didn't mention Laich being a leader or anything about his leadership ability at all.

Laich is indeed a fringe 2nd line player....better suited as a 3rd liner who can shuffle in on the PP/PK or 2nd line as needed.

He is a 2nd line player on teams that get ousted in the 1st round or swept in the 2nd round.

As for his leadership....not sure why many just assume he should be a C

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06-27-2011, 10:03 AM
  #272
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A couple of issues that I have with Laich... there appears to be the presumption out there that he's a center, a highly effective center in the top six, and that adding him will round out your top six scoring depth nicely. I'm still not a complete fan of him as a center.

Plenty of fans outside the Washington area are fully prepared to see their teams give this guy $5M and term. I think that is a mid-reading of what Laich can bring to a team. I think he can be a useful second-line winger, a third-line center if your depth is temporarily hampered, and a guy who can play the rugged screen role on a powerplay.

There are facets of Laich's game to really appreciate, to be sure, but those who know his game best can't help but find that price steep if it is in line with what the market is going to set as his value.

Now, in letting Laich go, would I hope that Brouwer is not the only replacement? Absolutely. I'd look to replace him, and view Brouwer as a replacement by committee rather than a one-for-one replacement for him. I like the idea that Brouwer replaces Bradley, to be honest.

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06-27-2011, 11:40 AM
  #273
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Laich is a 3rd line talent who has produced well over his abilities because the guys he gets to play with both at even strength and on the PP. You can't argue that his numbers say 2nd liner easy and for some teams even a 1st liner but numbers != talent level.

He is a winger who is decent at taking draws. There is a reason when the Caps had an obvious hole at 2nd line center he never got much of a run there, he doesn't have the skill to be a 2nd line centerman, even with a player like Semin on his wing.

I like him but I draw the line at what I would pay him at say $3 mil. If some team wants to pay him $5 mil and pencil him in as their 2nd line centerman then have at it.

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06-27-2011, 12:12 PM
  #274
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I welcome Laich to be used as a 2C somewhere. To test my theory that Bruce really lays down the defensive responsibilities on his C's.... hard. I think it is tough for them to produce points at ES yet be up so high. Let's complain about Semin some more. Who has to go it alone. I have never heard a single person say Laich and Semin have great chemistry. Good chemistry. Any.

I know its normal for C's to carry a lot of the load defensively, but I have never seen a coach have his dmen as active in the offense zone, as Bruce does. From game 1 period 1 to game 7 in OT. The D are bringing it. The C's never get a shift off. Has anyone seen a coach have his Dmen pinch in as much as Bruce does, game after game, year after year. With a lead, tied worst dman on the ice, best scoring line on etc.

I think Laich embraced the defensive role too well. And never scored as a C. Back to wing you go.


Last edited by RandyHolt: 06-27-2011 at 01:36 PM.
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Old
06-27-2011, 01:04 PM
  #275
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ive been watching this guy play hockey for a while now. ive seen what he does well and ive seen what disappears when he plays center. he is not an open ice playmaker. its not that he cant pass the puck. he does that well from the sideboards and from the corners. on the other hand when he is carrying the puck thru the neutral zone with wingers, things dont happen. things that do happen when backstrom and johansson have the puck. things that do happen when keith aucoin has the puck.

as a 3c when the game in the neutral zone is dump and chase, he is fine. when its make a play on the rush, he is not.

as a 2nd line winger, his strenth once the puck is deep is far more effective with linemates that can finish. this is why he brings more as a second line winger than a 3rd line center.

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