HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Atlantic Division > Montreal Canadiens
Notices

Trade rights to Wiz ?

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-27-2011, 11:44 AM
  #51
HCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wild West
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,553
vCash: 500
As we get closer and closer to July 1st, the negotiating rights to Wiz become worth less and less. I think he will leave the team without compensation.

HCH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2011, 12:13 PM
  #52
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 20,923
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by FiveForDrawingBlood View Post
If I was GM....I would have resigned Wiz and traded Gorges for a top draft pick. The team changed when we acquired Wiz, take the money to Gorges and give it to Wiz. Unless there is something I don't know about. The most I would offer Wiz is 4 million a season.

Either trade Gorges for first rounder and/or package Gorges with a center and prospect for true #1 center and another first rounder.

That is just my opinion but 213 goals for is not good enough. Without a true #1 center, size and skill down the middle in under rated value to a team, just not enough room out there for our small forwards. Increase goal scoring with goals from the blueline.
That would be bad. Sometimes, it's not just about scoring goals. Gorges is a key defensive player. He can play big minutes versus top opponents as a shutdown man, he's key for us on the PK. You don't want to be stuck giving PK and Markov huge minutes on the PK when you have a great serviceable Dmen pair like Gorges/Gill.
He's also very well liked and a good leader.

I can agree to sign Wiz and Gorges, but not Gill. But I don't want Gorges moved. You need solid defensive Dman in your squad, and no Gill is not what I consider a solid one, he's only a PK specialist.

Also, if you're going to make an evaluation of your team and come to the conclusion that 213g is a good representation of its offensive abilities, then maybe you should double check your things. Three of your key players in the top 6 have gone through career lows. You also missed your best offensive Dman. Scoring goals can also be overlooked as long as your GF/GA ratio is positive. If it ain't, then you better have a powerhouse up front, which we don't have and won't have.
NJ scored 206 goals in 06-07 and yet finished 2nd. When they won the Cup in 02-03, they scored 216 goals, but they were 4 in the league for ES GF/GA, and that's what's important.
Our ratio improved last year as opposed to 2years ago. We were in the middle at 16 as opposed to 22nd. That's the number you should be looking at, not the GF column.
Wiz only had 14 ESP with us (and 8 with the Isle), that's only 3more than Hamrlik.
Keep in mind that this was a career year for Wiz, and by far, first time he goes over the 30pt plateau.
So, you need a guy like Gorges that is solid defensively, that can play those shutdown minutes.

I wouldn't be opposed to bringing Wiz back, I think we need another depth signing on D because we can't head into next year thinking Markov will not miss any time.
But at the same time, I want him to focus on getting us a top 6 ES performer.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2011, 01:29 PM
  #53
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 20,739
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
As we get closer and closer to July 1st, the negotiating rights to Wiz become worth less and less. I think he will leave the team without compensation.
The possible flip side of that coin, by the way, is that as UFAs get re-signed leading up to July 1st, the market competition becomes stronger and any advantage in signing one of the few good remaining ones increases in value - especially if you are trying to avoid a bidding war on the open market. Not a lot of time for a team to go this route and get something done, though.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2011, 01:54 PM
  #54
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 28,938
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
As we get closer and closer to July 1st, the negotiating rights to Wiz become worth less and less. I think he will leave the team without compensation.
Why would it be less? markov just re-signed and so did Bieksa, as the UFA's sign with their own team, the market for Wisniewski improves.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2011, 01:56 PM
  #55
Corncob
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,600
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Why would it be less? markov just re-signed and so did Bieksa, as the UFA's sign with their own team, the market for Wisniewski improves.
The market for him improves salarywise.

The market for his rights is basically zero because it's more obvious that he doesn't intend signing a contract prior to July 1st.

Corncob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2011, 02:40 PM
  #56
Andy
Registered User
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,646
vCash: 500
Bieksa got 4.6 per.

Wisnewski will get 5 per easily. Not worth it IMO.

Andy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2011, 02:57 PM
  #57
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 20,739
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Bieksa got 4.6 per.

Wisnewski will get 5 per easily. Not worth it IMO.
I would totally pay Wiz $5M per (less than 8% of the cap for a #2 defenseman?!), and am encouraged that perhaps 5 mil is the upper limit of what he "deserves". The potential impact he could have in this lineup for an entire season outweighs any risk that his contract would be "untradeable" in the future. And since we're not exactly up against the cap, why just throw away another 2nd rounder without giving the return a chance to prove what he can do?

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2011, 02:59 PM
  #58
habitue*
 
habitue*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Country: Canada
Posts: 9,236
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
Bieksa got 4.6 per.

Wisnewski will get 5 per easily. Not worth it IMO.
Bieksa is as good if not better than Wiz.

habitue* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2011, 03:06 PM
  #59
Andy
Registered User
 
Andy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Montreal
Country: Canada
Posts: 16,646
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
I would totally pay Wiz $5M per (less than 8% of the cap for a #2 defenseman?!), and am encouraged that perhaps 5 mil is the upper limit of what he "deserves". The potential impact he could have in this lineup for an entire season outweighs any risk that his contract would be "untradeable" in the future. And since we're not exactly up against the cap, why just throw away another 2nd rounder without giving the return a chance to prove what he can do?
I loved Wisniewski's offensive game, but I found that Harmlik carried him on the defensive side.

Unless they pair him with Gorges? Will it have a similar impact?

5 million is steep.

Andy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2011, 03:08 PM
  #60
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 20,923
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohashi_Jouzu View Post
I would totally pay Wiz $5M per (less than 8% of the cap for a #2 defenseman?!), and am encouraged that perhaps 5 mil is the upper limit of what he "deserves". The potential impact he could have in this lineup for an entire season outweighs any risk that his contract would be "untradeable" in the future. And since we're not exactly up against the cap, why just throw away another 2nd rounder without giving the return a chance to prove what he can do?
I think that's too much for a Dman that only had one good year and hasn't truly established himself yet. I'd rather take a little less out and offer it to Pitkanen, who's more proven and better defensively imo.
I wouldn't have offered Wiz more than 4M.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2011, 03:13 PM
  #61
Roke
Registered User
 
Roke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,882
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
I think that's too much for a Dman that only had one good year and hasn't truly established himself yet. I'd rather take a little less out and offer it to Pitkanen, who's more proven and better defensively imo.
I wouldn't have offered Wiz more than 4M.
Wiz isn't proven points-wise but in 2009-10 he played on the first pairing with Niedermayer against opposition top lines and I don't see any ill-effects in the numbers for the pairing that year.

I'm not sure if i would sign him, but I wouldn't be upset if the Habs give him a 4 year, $20 million contract.

Roke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2011, 03:26 PM
  #62
FrankMTL
Registered User
 
FrankMTL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,513
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by habitue View Post
Bieksa is as good if not better than Wiz.
I agree regarding Bieksa being better than Wiz...I would offer him a 4 year deal worth 18-20 million...Take it or leave it.

FrankMTL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2011, 03:30 PM
  #63
HCH
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: The Wild West
Country: Canada
Posts: 4,553
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Carey Price View Post
Why would it be less? markov just re-signed and so did Bieksa, as the UFA's sign with their own team, the market for Wisniewski improves.
Because teams only have three days of exclusive negotiating rights left.

HCH is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2011, 03:34 PM
  #64
Ohashi_Jouzu
Registered User
 
Ohashi_Jouzu's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Halifax
Country: Japan
Posts: 20,739
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
I loved Wisniewski's offensive game, but I found that Harmlik carried him on the defensive side.

Unless they pair him with Gorges? Will it have a similar impact?

5 million is steep.
I think your perception of $5 million is stuck in the 90s, if I may be a bit crass. That's relatively peanuts to pay for the best option on the market to stick beside Markov on the first pair. Again, I see no need to put PK on the 1st pairing at ES since I assume he'll be getting plenty of minutes on both the PP and PK.

I also must say, I didn't see these defensive deficiencies that everyone is going on about, especially when I compare to the other defensemen around the league I watched tonnes of last year that were asked to carry/move the puck forward as much as he was. Komisarek pretty much became an all-star playing beside Markov, and people are worried about Wisniewski?? He logged serious minutes and was successful in both Anaheim and Long Island before coming to the Habs, so I'm more convinced that he's on the rise rather than the decline - especially given his age.

Ohashi_Jouzu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2011, 03:38 PM
  #65
Talks to Goalposts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Edmonton
Country: Canada
Posts: 3,474
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roke View Post
Wiz isn't proven points-wise but in 2009-10 he played on the first pairing with Niedermayer against opposition top lines and I don't see any ill-effects in the numbers for the pairing that year.

I'm not sure if i would sign him, but I wouldn't be upset if the Habs give him a 4 year, $20 million contract.
Yeah, especially with the amount of cap-space Montreal has got this off-season. 5 million still leaves enough space to look to add a forward as well.

Talks to Goalposts is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2011, 03:40 PM
  #66
Kriss E
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 20,923
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Roke View Post
Wiz isn't proven points-wise but in 2009-10 he played on the first pairing with Niedermayer against opposition top lines and I don't see any ill-effects in the numbers for the pairing that year.

I'm not sure if i would sign him, but I wouldn't be upset if the Habs give him a 4 year, $20 million contract.
I never said I would be upset, I said I'd consider it an overpayment. But overpaying for free agents is a regular thing in the NHL, so I wouldn't be surprised if it happened and I'm not one of those posters who look at cap space as the God of hockey. I just look at the deal, consider it a good value/overpayment/bad one, and move on. I tend to focus on the players we sign rather than the hit they provide to our cap because I think you can still win despite having overpaid players. I'd rather have Wiz at 5 than Spacek at 3.8 and I'd be happy to see Wiz here no matter the cost (as long as it stays reasonable, no 6M obviously) simply because our D squad would look massively good.
I think a great deal would around 4M. A decent one would be 4.5M, and the start of an overpayment would be in the 5M range.
I also said I wouldn't mind trying to get a guy like Pitkanen who's better all around imo.
But any type of PMD would be welcomed as long as the overpayment (if there's one) isn't over the top. From what I've seen of Gauthier so far in terms of dollars, I trust him.

Kriss E is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2011, 03:45 PM
  #67
Roke
Registered User
 
Roke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Winnipeg
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,882
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Talks to Goalposts View Post
Yeah, especially with the amount of cap-space Montreal has got this off-season. 5 million still leaves enough space to look to add a forward as well.
At $5 million (which given the market for dmen might be on the low side for Wiz at this point) and if Spacek's cap-hit disapears the Habs would have $12 million to spend on a backup goalie, Gorges, and anything else plus over a million in buffer room. Even with Spacek there's still room to sign one good 3rd-line forward to put with Eller.

Roke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-27-2011, 03:48 PM
  #68
Monctonscout
Monctonscout
 
Monctonscout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 28,938
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by HCH View Post
Because teams only have three days of exclusive negotiating rights left.
Teams sign UFA's 15 minutes after the period starts, I'm sure 3 days is more than enough.

Monctonscout is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:51 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2014 All Rights Reserved.