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Evgeny Grachev traded to STL for pick #72

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06-25-2011, 05:38 PM
  #326
Bob Yakupov
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Originally Posted by Radek27 View Post
Kovalev helped win us a cup!
Kovalev also had the talent to be one of the best players ever and he pissed it away.

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06-25-2011, 05:40 PM
  #327
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Well this is a reality check for some on this board.

I remember calling him a bust and got killed.

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06-25-2011, 05:44 PM
  #328
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Originally Posted by Gravey94 View Post
Kovalev also had the talent to be one of the best players ever and he pissed it away.
Still rather take a chance on high-end talent like that, especially with the current make up of this team.

3rd liners with "heart" will only get you so far

Also, Kovalev is a borderline hall of famer. Just because a lot of people feel he could've been better doesnt mean he didnt have a very admirable career.

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06-25-2011, 05:54 PM
  #329
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Originally Posted by Gravey94 View Post
Kovalev also had the talent to be one of the best players ever and he pissed it away.
Pissed it away to the tune of over 1000 points. If he plays another year, he'll likely be 58th in points all time. He's a frustrating player, but still had a tremendous career overall.

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06-25-2011, 06:09 PM
  #330
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Originally Posted by BroadwayBlues View Post
Well this is a reality check for some on this board.

I remember calling him a bust and got killed.
I'd say it was deserving because how could you possibly determine that a 19 or 20 year old was already a bust? Just because he was traded does not brand him as "bust" as far as hockey is concerned. He asked to be moved, and the Rangers pipeline of prospects and construction of their current team, probably dictated that he was unlikely to be a part of their plans. I think this is good asset management.

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06-25-2011, 06:28 PM
  #331
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Originally Posted by Gravey94 View Post
Kovalev also had the talent to be one of the best players ever and he pissed it away.
1st Russian drafted in the first round

1st Russian on the Cup with Zubov, Potsy and Nemchinov

Olympic Gold + Bronze

All-Star MVP

1,000PTS

Almost at 600 helpers and over 400 goals.

Thats a pretty nice career if you ask me.

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06-25-2011, 06:29 PM
  #332
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Originally Posted by Emma Royd View Post
Pissed it away to the tune of over 1000 points. If he plays another year, he'll likely be 58th in points all time. He's a frustrating player, but still had a tremendous career overall.
Beat me to it!

It does amaze me how unpopular Kovy is with some Ranger fans considering he is the LAST of the 94 team still playing and has had a darn good career. One of our best ever draft picks.

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06-25-2011, 06:44 PM
  #333
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Originally Posted by Gravey94 View Post
Fine by me. I'm honestly sick of Russian floaters. Turning this team into America's team is awesome.
This type of disgusting discrimination needs to go. Without Russian players the NHL would be BORING. There are some amazing products out of Russia; so don't even get me started. Without Kovalev -- 1994 could have been different.

You need the right mix of talents. The finesse and creativity Russians bring is more than part of it.

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06-25-2011, 06:46 PM
  #334
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Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
This type of disgusting discrimination needs to go. Without Russian players the NHL would be BORING. There are some amazing products out of Russia; so don't even get me started. Without Kovalev -- 1994 could have been different.

You need the right mix of talents. The finesse and creativity Russians bring is more than part of it.
but most of them rather play in the KHL and ***** and moan when they get sent down to the AHL. why is that, why cant they go to the AHL and not moan about it. oh i rather play in the KHL than the AHL. these are the type of players i hate..

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06-25-2011, 07:34 PM
  #335
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Ridiculous trade. Absolutely ridiculous. Sather could have obtained this pick without giving up Grachev, imo....

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06-25-2011, 07:39 PM
  #336
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Ridiculous trade. Absolutely ridiculous. Sather could have obtained this pick without giving up Grachev, imo....
Probably, but what do you do with Grachev? He has wanted out for quite some time, so do you risk holding on to him, only to watch him head to Russia and get nothing in return?

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06-25-2011, 07:44 PM
  #337
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I don't get the anti-Russian thing, but let's not put Kovalev on some kind of pedestal. The guy is a classic case of a compiler. He has only had three-ish seasons of scoring at or better than a point per game. His career ppg rate is .79. That's nothing to sneeze at, but he's not even a borderline Hall of Fame guy.

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06-25-2011, 07:48 PM
  #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Punxrocknyc19 View Post
but most of them rather play in the KHL and ***** and moan when they get sent down to the AHL. why is that, why cant they go to the AHL and not moan about it. oh i rather play in the KHL than the AHL. these are the type of players i hate..
I HATE to agree with you as I dont want to be seen as a Bigot cause I am not. But your right. They need to learn they are not all world talent. Maybe in Russia they are seen as the best of the best, but when they come to the BEST LEAGUE IN THE WORLD BAR NONE, there is a method to this. You dont make the club out of camp, you go down to the Minors (AHL) and play for league minimum 50K or something close to that. Then, you get training to learn how to play NA style hockey. You get good enough, you make the team. He was called up and did SQUAT his few games he played with us. I was expecting nothing else than what he showed. I think he was rushed by a year. 19 in the AHL is rough. Anyways, he thought he could pipeline himself fast tracking it to the big club somewhere else. Maybe he could. But these Russians need to learn the meaning of a "two-way contract". It does NOT mean you make the NHL and stay in the NHL. You have to PROVE to your team/coaches/management that you are READY. Just because you want to make big money does NOT mean you are ENTITLED to that money. You need to EARN that money.

I dont want to say this about ALL russians because thats not fair. And brining Kovalev into this conversation is just plain idiotic. The guy played lights out for us during the 93-94 season. Did he and Keenan clash? Oh you can bet your sweet a$$ he did. But he also scored MAJOR GOALS in the regular season and the post season. He was a young cocky kid. The world at his disposal. Ok he got cocky years later. We shipped him off for Nedved. Nedved was OK for us until he got close to the end of his career with the rangers. Then he plain crapped the sheets most nights.

Kovalev went on to a GREAT career in Pitts. I remember smashing my head into the wall thinking, "Oh God. What did we do?" Kovalev and Jagr together was deadly lethal.

Ok I understand his second go around with us was not all-star like. But he potted some goals and dazzled the puck around defenders and fowards like they were stationary fire hydrants. He was and can still be that good. He has all world hands. But makes one or two dippsie doodles too many. He needs to learn "Brassi" (spelling? Pronounced "Brass-eye".

But to bring him up when putting DOWN russians is short sighted and unfair. I dont know if Kovalev will be HOF like some say. But I say at the end of the day, Alexi can rest his pretty little head on his pillow and know he had a GREAT career.

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06-25-2011, 07:51 PM
  #339
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Originally Posted by gotmonte View Post
I HATE to agree with you as I dont want to be seen as a Bigot cause I am not. But your right. They need to learn they are not all world talent. Maybe in Russia they are seen as the best of the best, but when they come to the BEST LEAGUE IN THE WORLD BAR NONE, there is a method to this. You dont make the club out of camp, you go down to the Minors (AHL) and play for league minimum 50K or something close to that. Then, you get training to learn how to play NA style hockey. You get good enough, you make the team. He was called up and did SQUAT his few games he played with us. I was expecting nothing else than what he showed. I think he was rushed by a year. 19 in the AHL is rough. Anyways, he thought he could pipeline himself fast tracking it to the big club somewhere else. Maybe he could. But these Russians need to learn the meaning of a "two-way contract". It does NOT mean you make the NHL and stay in the NHL. You have to PROVE to your team/coaches/management that you are READY. Just because you want to make big money does NOT mean you are ENTITLED to that money. You need to EARN that money.

I dont want to say this about ALL russians because thats not fair. And brining Kovalev into this conversation is just plain idiotic. The guy played lights out for us during the 93-94 season. Did he and Keenan clash? Oh you can bet your sweet a$$ he did. But he also scored MAJOR GOALS in the regular season and the post season. He was a young cocky kid. The world at his disposal. Ok he got cocky years later. We shipped him off for Nedved. Nedved was OK for us until he got close to the end of his career with the rangers. Then he plain crapped the sheets most nights.

Kovalev went on to a GREAT career in Pitts. I remember smashing my head into the wall thinking, "Oh God. What did we do?" Kovalev and Jagr together was deadly lethal.

Ok I understand his second go around with us was not all-star like. But he potted some goals and dazzled the puck around defenders and fowards like they were stationary fire hydrants. He was and can still be that good. He has all world hands. But makes one or two dippsie doodles too many. He needs to learn "Brassi" (spelling? Pronounced "Brass-eye".

But to bring him up when putting DOWN russians is short sighted and unfair. I dont know if Kovalev will be HOF like some say. But I say at the end of the day, Alexi can rest his pretty little head on his pillow and know he had a GREAT career.
Your over the top opinions are getting old.

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06-25-2011, 07:51 PM
  #340
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its not bigotry to say that russians are "iffy" in situations where they arent established top 6 players in the NHL. if the KHL was the worlds best league and American was bouncing around Russia failing to make an impact most Americans would come home to the NHL in the same way a Russian would go home to Russia.

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06-25-2011, 07:54 PM
  #341
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Originally Posted by Leslie Treff View Post
This is speculation, no inside dirt here. But just some thoughts. Draw your own conclusions.

First, Grachev falls to the third round because other teams had questions as to whether he would come over. I remember the Rangers saying that they knew that he was willing to come, but he must be signed first. So, he signs an ELC and it slides one year. Then he and his agent want Grachev to play pro. The Rangers felt otherwise; that he needed another year in junior. He could have returned to junior, but he refused. One can only guess at what he threatened.

So, the Rangers give him a shot in the fall of 2009. He is not ready, but they keep him a long time (he was one of the last cuts, but not because he was ready) and the Rangers returned him to the AHL. But they were very optimistic about him and toward him. He will be a call-up, etc, etc,

Then Grachev plays very lacklusterly. He's making minimal money, much less than he can make in Russia and with no fame at all, few fans in the arena and bus trips.

Then when he did not make the team in the Fall of 2010, he's stuck again. The Rangers bring him up to the NHL when he is far from the best call-up, almost certainly to showcase him. But Grachev does nothing in his appearance. Even if on the fourth line, he should have shown something. Nada. So, whatever possible trade could have even been a long shot goes nowhere.

Sather said today he had no partner for a trade other than St Louis. My guess is that this was the Rangers last shot at getting something for him. He has one year left on his contract and its long enough for St. Louis to see if he can do something. It was worth the risk for them and the Rangers had to trade him or he was almost surely on a plane home.

I think that they did extremely well getting what they did for him. It was a very good trade from a very bad position.
Thanks for a very good take Leslie. I was always very high on him, but the fact that he did not go back to junior as the team counseled was always something that bothered me a bit.

I'm wishing him the best, but it sounds like his head got in the way. Hopefully he will make something of his time in St. Louis. I'll follow the comments on their board with great interest come this fall.

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06-25-2011, 07:55 PM
  #342
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Originally Posted by Boom Boom Geoffrion View Post
Ridiculous trade. Absolutely ridiculous. Sather could have obtained this pick without giving up Grachev, imo....
Did you read that Grachev ASKED OUT A YEAR AGO and Sather has tried for a YEAR to trade him. Only St. Louis was WILLING TO TAKE HIM and all they offered was a THIRD.

What else would you like the NYR Organization to do? Hold on to him till he bolts to the KHL? Its ALL WE COULD GET. I am not happy either. But I am thrilled Sather held out a YEAR trying to trade him. Wasnt like TODAY Grachev asked out and Sather bit the first offer he had.

Quite the opposite

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06-25-2011, 08:15 PM
  #343
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grachev would have bolted for the khl had we not moved him.

i agree with leslies take. he can make more money and pay alot less in taxes playing at home in front of full arenas with adoring crowds. hard to resist that compared to bus rides up and down the east coast making 80k.

this is a case of a guy who never showed anything but marginal bottom 6 talent and less than that when it comes to hockey sense. and this organization is very high on hockey sense.

add to that his desire to be moved while underperfoming and you have a guy who had no real future.

its not the case of not drafting russians. its drafting the right russians.

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06-25-2011, 08:23 PM
  #344
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Probably, but what do you do with Grachev? He has wanted out for quite some time, so do you risk holding on to him, only to watch him head to Russia and get nothing in return?
Didn't know he requested a trade until after I had posted. I get home, see he was traded for a 3rd and automatically start

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Originally Posted by gotmonte View Post
Did you read that Grachev ASKED OUT A YEAR AGO and Sather has tried for a YEAR to trade him. Only St. Louis was WILLING TO TAKE HIM and all they offered was a THIRD.

What else would you like the NYR Organization to do? Hold on to him till he bolts to the KHL? Its ALL WE COULD GET. I am not happy either. But I am thrilled Sather held out a YEAR trying to trade him. Wasnt like TODAY Grachev asked out and Sather bit the first offer he had.

Quite the opposite
What is it with you and CAPS? Is this how you speak in real life?

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06-25-2011, 08:38 PM
  #345
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Was upset at the return at first thought he could fetch a 2nd, but after realizing he requested a move I think Slats did a good job.

Grachev is not a bust and while he likely won't set the world on fire I still think he can be a solid two way 3rd liner for St. Louis.

No hard feelings from me I was a big Grachev supporter and wish him well. He didn't fit with the Rangers and he could tell, no harm in wanting a change of scenery.

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06-25-2011, 08:47 PM
  #346
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Was upset at the return at first thought he could fetch a 2nd, but after realizing he requested a move I think Slats did a good job.

Grachev is not a bust and while he likely won't set the world on fire I still think he can be a solid two way 3rd liner for St. Louis.

No hard feelings from me I was a big Grachev supporter and wish him well. He didn't fit with the Rangers and he could tell, no harm in wanting a change of scenery.
It's really a shame. Tons of talent in an empty head. I really thought this kid was in our future.
Cant complain about the return.
Trade a moody brooding Russian for a rink-rat American whose Notre Dame bound.
Only thing we really lost was time invested.
Good luck to Grachev.

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06-25-2011, 09:14 PM
  #347
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At least we did something with him eh?

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06-25-2011, 09:26 PM
  #348
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I'll miss Grachev. Hope he turns it on for STL.

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06-25-2011, 09:27 PM
  #349
Bob Yakupov
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
This type of disgusting discrimination needs to go. Without Russian players the NHL would be BORING. There are some amazing products out of Russia; so don't even get me started. Without Kovalev -- 1994 could have been different.

You need the right mix of talents. The finesse and creativity Russians bring is more than part of it.
Alright calm down chief. I know my "hideous" bigotry has offended you but Grachev is another Russian who is moaning about not making the bigs straight out of camp.

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06-25-2011, 09:34 PM
  #350
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I don't get the anti-Russian thing, but let's not put Kovalev on some kind of pedestal. The guy is a classic case of a compiler. He has only had three-ish seasons of scoring at or better than a point per game. His career ppg rate is .79. That's nothing to sneeze at, but he's not even a borderline Hall of Fame guy.
Score 1000 point and you're in. End of story. How many 1000 point players are denied HOF?
If you could pick Kovalev now, would you pass? I don't think so. That is the answer to the Russian question.

There will be less and less Russians in NHL. KHL is making a coordinated effort to retain Russian players and NHL doesn't care much about it. Neither do I, but I'd like to see next Kovalev playing here. Grachev is nowhere near, so he may go. To St Louis, Missouri or to St Petersburg, Russia. I wish him all the best and would like to thank him for coming to NA as a teenager.

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