HFBoards

Go Back   HFBoards > NHL Eastern Conference > Metropolitan Division > New York Rangers
Mobile Hockey's Future Become a Sponsor Site Rules Support Forum vBookie Page 2
Notices

Evgeny Grachev traded to STL for pick #72

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old
06-25-2011, 09:49 PM
  #351
donpaulo
Capt Barry Beck
 
donpaulo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: nihon
Country: Japan
Posts: 1,620
vCash: 500
considering that Filatov was traded for a 3rd rounder I would have preferred him to the pick.

NY has given all kinds of chances to players it seems a shame not to have tried for Nikita

donpaulo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 09:54 PM
  #352
Bob Richards
Global Moderator
Mr. Mojo Risin'
 
Bob Richards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 50,398
vCash: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Score 1000 point and you're in. End of story. How many 1000 point players are denied HOF?
If you could pick Kovalev now, would you pass? I don't think so. That is the answer to the Russian question.

There will be less and less Russians in NHL. KHL is making a coordinated effort to retain Russian players and NHL doesn't care much about it. Neither do I, but I'd like to see next Kovalev playing here. Grachev is nowhere near, so he may go. To St Louis, Missouri or to St Petersburg, Russia. I wish him all the best and would like to thank him for coming to NA as a teenager.
1000 Points- No HOF
Dave Taylor
Bobby Smith
Bernie Nicholls
Brian Propp
Steve Larmer
Dave Andreychuk
Adam Oates
Phil Housley
Dale Hunter
Brian Bellows
Pierre Turgeon
Pat Verbeek
Vincent Damphousse
Joe Nieuwendyk
Alexander Moginly

Also, Paul Kariya, Jason Arnott, and Ray Whitney are close to 1000 points. I don't know how many of you would place them in Hall of Famer territory but I don't see it. Very likely Kovalev wont reach HOF status.

Bob Richards is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 09:56 PM
  #353
JeffMangum
Man Girardi
 
JeffMangum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Listening to music
Country: United States
Posts: 59,616
vCash: 50
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Score 1000 point and you're in. End of story. How many 1000 point players are denied HOF?.
Kovalev is not a HoFer.

He has no major awards, no 1st all-all star selections, and has 1024 points, but in over 1300 games.

If Adam Oates isn't in, Kovalev doesn't sniff the ballot.

__________________
Soon.
JeffMangum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 10:16 PM
  #354
Leetch3
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 3,435
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brian Boyle View Post
Kovalev is not a HoFer.

He has no major awards, no 1st all-all star selections, and has 1024 points, but in over 1300 games.

If Adam Oates isn't in, Kovalev doesn't sniff the ballot.
adam oates not being in is a joke...nothing to do with the kovy argument just sayin

Leetch3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 10:25 PM
  #355
Inferno
HFB Partner
 
Inferno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: Atlanta, GA
Country: United States
Posts: 20,942
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by CM PUNK View Post
adam oates not being in is a joke...nothing to do with the kovy argument just sayin
gonna have to agree with you there. Oates should be in the HOF.

Inferno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 10:41 PM
  #356
hpNYR
HF Forecaster
 
hpNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burbank, CA
Country: Armenia
Posts: 7,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravey94 View Post
Alright calm down chief. I know my "hideous" bigotry has offended you but Grachev is another Russian who is moaning about not making the bigs straight out of camp.
I can care less what Grachev is doing. The game has guys like Datsyuk, Ovechkin, Burmistrov etc. Amazing talents. The league wouldn't be the same without them. You don't like Russians then that's your problem. I love the Russian game.

hpNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 10:42 PM
  #357
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
 
haohmaru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fleming Island, Fl
Country: United States
Posts: 6,507
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravey94 View Post
1000 Points- No HOF
Dave Taylor
Bobby Smith
Bernie Nicholls
Brian Propp
Steve Larmer
Dave Andreychuk
Adam Oates
Phil Housley
Dale Hunter
Brian Bellows
Pierre Turgeon
Pat Verbeek
Vincent Damphousse
Joe Nieuwendyk
Alexander Moginly

Also, Paul Kariya, Jason Arnott, and Ray Whitney are close to 1000 points. I don't know how many of you would place them in Hall of Famer territory but I don't see it. Very likely Kovalev wont reach HOF status.
Crazy. Oates, Hunter, Larmer, and Nieuwendyk should all be in for various reasons. Kovalev should be as well - 2nd leading Russian scorer ever in the NHL and the Rangers don't win the Cup (particularly the "Messier guarantee" game) without him.

Then again, I can't believe a talent/player like Bure isn't in there either.

haohmaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 10:50 PM
  #358
SupersonicMonkey*
DROP THE PUCK
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: USA
Country: United States
Posts: 16,230
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by haohmaru View Post
Crazy. Oates, Hunter, Larmer, and Nieuwendyk should all be in for various reasons. Kovalev should be as well - 2nd leading Russian scorer ever in the NHL and the Rangers don't win the Cup (particularly the "Messier guarantee" game) without him.

Then again, I can't believe a talent/player like Bure isn't in there either.
Pavel Bure's career, like Eric Lindros', was cut too short.

Could be the only reason.

SupersonicMonkey* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 11:06 PM
  #359
Bob Richards
Global Moderator
Mr. Mojo Risin'
 
Bob Richards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Jersey
Country: United States
Posts: 50,398
vCash: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by hpNYR View Post
I can care less what Grachev is doing. The game has guys like Datsyuk, Ovechkin, Burmistrov etc. Amazing talents. The league wouldn't be the same without them. You don't like Russians then that's your problem. I love the Russian game.
I probably should have worded it better, but the Rangers have a bad track record of drafting russians with this problem. Also, the guys you listed are anomalies.

Bob Richards is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 11:06 PM
  #360
haohmaru
boomshakalaka
 
haohmaru's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Fleming Island, Fl
Country: United States
Posts: 6,507
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by SupersonicMonkey View Post
Pavel Bure's career, like Eric Lindros', was cut too short.

Could be the only reason.
He scored 58 and 59 goals with the Panthers. That alone should get him in.

haohmaru is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-25-2011, 11:32 PM
  #361
frankthefrowner
Registered User
 
frankthefrowner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,676
vCash: 500
Korpedo, Sangs, Dawes, Prucha... all guys this board went ape **** after we traded them, saying things like Sather is an idiot. Do we give a crap now? I feel Grachev will be the same...

People just wanted too call him Battleship Grachev on the NHL level. Was never going to happen.

frankthefrowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 12:02 AM
  #362
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravey94 View Post
1000 Points- No HOF
Dave Taylor
Bobby Smith
Bernie Nicholls
Brian Propp
Steve Larmer
Dave Andreychuk
Adam Oates
Phil Housley
Dale Hunter
Brian Bellows
Pierre Turgeon
Pat Verbeek
Vincent Damphousse
Joe Nieuwendyk
Alexander Moginly

Also, Paul Kariya, Jason Arnott, and Ray Whitney are close to 1000 points. I don't know how many of you would place them in Hall of Famer territory but I don't see it. Very likely Kovalev wont reach HOF status.
Not many. Half of that list will be in. As well as Karia and Whitney. I have never insisted Kovalev will be on first year of eligibility, but he will make it. I predict 1000 point will be harder to reach over time. Goalies are getting better is one factor, blocking shots is the second. No one blocked shots when Esposito played.

As for Grachev not wanting being a Ranger, he wanted it as much as anybody. He didn't want to be a Whale. I can't blame him for that.

No one comes to NHL to make an historic mark. People come here to get a nice pay and have fun making it. For that possibility players are willing to work hard. Those who don't leave first, then leave those who cannot be good even working hard. Those who left are awarded with big contracts. At this point player fulfills his goals. Winning Stanley Cup is a good step toward that, but it's just preposterous to think it take precedence over money. Once money issue is resolved, then player may think about legacy, SC rings, etc. Russians do not value SC as much as we do. They come from different background. They, however, value money the same. That is how this league function - money first, SC -second, HOF - third.


Last edited by 94now: 06-26-2011 at 12:12 AM.
94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 12:05 AM
  #363
JeffMangum
Man Girardi
 
JeffMangum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Listening to music
Country: United States
Posts: 59,616
vCash: 50
Whitney isn't a HoFer. Not even close. What the hell has he done, aside from have a long career, although a consistent one? He'd be classified into the "Hall of very Good", where Kovlev and Kariya belong.

JeffMangum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 12:30 AM
  #364
Vitto79
Registered User
 
Vitto79's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Sarnia
Country: Canada
Posts: 17,152
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by frankthefrowner View Post
Korpedo, Sangs, Dawes, Prucha... all guys this board went ape **** after we traded them, saying things like Sather is an idiot. Do we give a crap now? I feel Grachev will be the same...

People just wanted too call him Battleship Grachev on the NHL level. Was never going to happen.
Prucha and Dawes are KHL bound, Sangs got hurt , he may still make it but we got a good return for him........Korpedo would be rather nice on this team, wish they didnt move him

Vitto79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 01:04 AM
  #365
Puckface NYR*
R.I.P. Boogyman
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: Long Island
Posts: 8,167
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by 94now View Post
Not many. Half of that list will be in. As well as Karia and Whitney. I have never insisted Kovalev will be on first year of eligibility, but he will make it. I predict 1000 point will be harder to reach over time. Goalies are getting better is one factor, blocking shots is the second. No one blocked shots when Esposito played.

As for Grachev not wanting being a Ranger, he wanted it as much as anybody. He didn't want to be a Whale. I can't blame him for that.

No one comes to NHL to make an historic mark. People come here to get a nice pay and have fun making it. For that possibility players are willing to work hard. Those who don't leave first, then leave those who cannot be good even working hard. Those who left are awarded with big contracts. At this point player fulfills his goals. Winning Stanley Cup is a good step toward that, but it's just preposterous to think it take precedence over money. Once money issue is resolved, then player may think about legacy, SC rings, etc. Russians do not value SC as much as we do. They come from different background. They, however, value money the same. That is how this league function - money first, SC -second, HOF - third.
LOL at Whitney being a hof'er. You watch any hockey besides the Rangers.

Kovalev shouldn't sniff the hall. If they let him in that sets the bar real low. Throughout his entire career he's been thought of as a lazy, underachiever who had tremendous skill, but only a couple above average seasons. Guys like that don't belong in the hall. Imo, pretty much that entire list should be in before Kovy. And I'm a major Kovy fan, first jersey i ever owned.

Puckface NYR* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 01:25 AM
  #366
hpNYR
HF Forecaster
 
hpNYR's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Burbank, CA
Country: Armenia
Posts: 7,100
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravey94 View Post
I probably should have worded it better, but the Rangers have a bad track record of drafting russians with this problem. Also, the guys you listed are anomalies.
There is nothing anamolic about producing skilled hockey players. Russia does that.

hpNYR is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 05:19 AM
  #367
chosen
Registered User
 
chosen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 5,836
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gravey94 View Post
Kovalev also had the talent to be one of the best players ever and he pissed it away.
Without Kovalev, Islanders fans still chanting 1940.

chosen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 06:12 AM
  #368
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 13,656
vCash: 500
Just speaking of Grachev--one poor rookie season in the AHL--a second season that started poor but ended average. Even if he had made the Rangers out of camp it was very unlikely that he would have been a top 6 forward for us any time soon. And to make a player like that useful he would have to do things like pk.

If he makes it in St. Louis good for him but I've stopped worrying about him. On the subject of Russian players we're bringing Pashnin over and Valentenko has a realistic shot at making the NHL if the Rangers don't go out and sign a bunch of vet defensemen.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 07:29 AM
  #369
NYRCC
Registered User
 
NYRCC's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Cleveland, OH
Country: United States
Posts: 198
vCash: 500
Someone needs to dig up that article that Mitch Beck(I think) wrote about Grachev last year. If I remember right, Beck didn't think Grachev was ever going to get it together. Can't say I disagree. Not like Hodgson has gone on to do much of anything either.

NYRCC is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 07:37 AM
  #370
Radek27
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: NJ
Country: United States
Posts: 5,556
vCash: 500
Send a message via AIM to Radek27
To me being the first russian picked in the first round and on the cup helps his 1,000 pts into the HOF. Since this is also the Hockey Hall of Fame and not just the NHL Hall of Fame his Olympic Gold should seal it.



I also agree Oates should be in as well.

Radek27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 08:30 AM
  #371
Doyle
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Country: Canada
Posts: 1,151
vCash: 500
Blues Acquire Grachev From Rangers for 3rd Round Pick
http://nhlhotstove.com/blues-acquire...rd-round-pick/

Doyle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 09:17 AM
  #372
eco's bones
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Elmira NY
Country: United States
Posts: 13,656
vCash: 500
Accumulating 1000 points over a career doesn't mean what it used to. I agree that Oates should be in the HOF and expect he'll get in this year.

Regarding Kovalev--I'm not so sure. I consider him as borderline like I'd consider Graves or Richter borderline and it would be hard for me to argue that Kovalev was the better player than either of those two. To be fair--Kovalev's best days were in Pittsburgh and to a lesser extent Montreal. In Pittsburgh he greatly benefited from being on teams with Lemieux and Jagr. He was always secondary to those two but it helped a lot to pad his numbers. There's no doubt that Kovalev was at least incredibly talented but there was almost always an inconsistency to his game and he lacks the leadership mentality at least in the respect that he never showed the capability of carrying his team to better things and apart from his rookie season in '94 he never won another cup.

eco's bones is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 10:20 AM
  #373
94now
Registered User
 
94now's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Snow Belt, USA
Country: United Nations
Posts: 6,445
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by eco's bones View Post
Accumulating 1000 points over a career doesn't mean what it used to. I agree that Oates should be in the HOF and expect he'll get in this year.

Regarding Kovalev--I'm not so sure. I consider him as borderline like I'd consider Graves or Richter borderline and it would be hard for me to argue that Kovalev was the better player than either of those two. To be fair--Kovalev's best days were in Pittsburgh and to a lesser extent Montreal. In Pittsburgh he greatly benefited from being on teams with Lemieux and Jagr. He was always secondary to those two but it helped a lot to pad his numbers. There's no doubt that Kovalev was at least incredibly talented but there was almost always an inconsistency to his game and he lacks the leadership mentality at least in the respect that he never showed the capability of carrying his team to better things and apart from his rookie season in '94 he never won another cup.
Leadership is not required for HOF. Well, it's a boon, but not as critical as other things. As for surroundings, every player that is in, except very, very few, benefited from the teams. That is why in acceptance speeches they praise team/line mates and they mean it.
That leaves 1000 points the only reliable indicator of eligibility. Sure, there will be exceptions, but Kovalev is not one. Long career helps and rightfully so.

94now is offline   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 10:30 AM
  #374
nyr2k2
Can't Beat Him
 
nyr2k2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Washington, DC
Country: United States
Posts: 24,602
vCash: 50
Awards:
I don't think Kovalev gets in.

nyr2k2 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old
06-26-2011, 10:32 AM
  #375
frankthefrowner
Registered User
 
frankthefrowner's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,676
vCash: 500
Quote:
Originally Posted by Vitto79 View Post
Prucha and Dawes are KHL bound, Sangs got hurt , he may still make it but we got a good return for him........Korpedo would be rather nice on this team, wish they didnt move him
Grachev will be joining Prucha and Dawes in a year or 2.

frankthefrowner is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Forum Jump


Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:43 AM.

monitoring_string = "e4251c93e2ba248d29da988d93bf5144"
Contact Us - HFBoards - Archive - Privacy Statement - Terms of Use - Advertise - Top - AdChoices

vBulletin Copyright ©2000 - 2015, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
HFBoards.com is a property of CraveOnline Media, LLC, an Evolve Media, LLC company. 2015 All Rights Reserved.