Regarding offensiveness of Canadian leagues, isn't it...
QMJHL>OHL>WHL?
I could be completely off-base, though...
Its not like this is a fact. Would like to see some statistics. I would guess goals per game would be the measure of offensiveness most would look for and I'm sure that fluctuates from year to year in each league based on players and quality of competition throughout the league.
Last edited by Randy BoBandy: 11-07-2012 at 11:39 AM.
Its not like this is a fact or something proven over time. Would like to see some statistics. I would guess goals per game would be the measure of offensiveness most would look for and I'm sure that fluctuates from year to year in each league based on players and quality of competition throughout the league.
I would make a trade for this guy, 2013 6th round pick
I would make a trade for this guy, 2013 6th round pick
I'd say value wise that's probably up there (maybe a 5th rounder would be closer) but I doubt GMCF (or any fans, for that matter) would be willing to trade him now that his stock is on the rise.
Regarding offensiveness of Canadian leagues, isn't it...
QMJHL>OHL>WHL?
I could be completely off-base, though...
That's what people traditionally think, but it's not accurate. For some reason stats for the OHL and QMJHL for 11-12 are flaky, but looking at 10-11 and 09-10:
(These are all goal totals per game calculated by total league goals divided by number of teams, divided by games per team, multiplied by 2)
The OHL has emerged at least in the past few years as the highest scoring league. The QMJHL and WHL appear to be approximately similar, but the WHL is trending upwards while the QMJHL is trending downwards. If things continue how they were for the past two years or so, the order should be:
OHL > WHL > QMJHL
Factor in the presumably better goaltending in the WHL and OHL (this is judging from drafting over the past few years) and not only are they scoring fewer goals in the Q, it's against seemingly lower quality goaltending besides.
I don't think you give up a 6'3 prospect who's scoring PPG for a 6th rounder. Not at all. There's no upside in that. Best case scenario, you maybe find a guy that's as good.
I'd think his value is closer to a 3rd rounder now but it still makes no sense. If anything it would be for an NHL'er.
I don't think you give up a 6'3 prospect who's scoring PPG for a 6th rounder. Not at all. There's no upside in that. Best case scenario, you maybe find a guy that's as good.
I'd think his value is closer to a 3rd rounder now but it still makes no sense. If anything it would be for an NHL'er.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jakob Silfverberg
Graovac is now 6'4, 205.
Another 2 goals tonight, we're only half way through the second.
But yeah, your point stands. We're not about to give him up as I said. He has size, seems to have grit and is starting to develop his offense as well. While some of his numbers are no doubt down to the fact that he is physically dominant due to his size and man body, those numbers require some genuine offensive talent, too.
I don't think you give up a 6'3 prospect who's scoring PPG for a 6th rounder. Not at all. There's no upside in that. Best case scenario, you maybe find a guy that's as good.
I'd think his value is closer to a 3rd rounder now but it still makes no sense. If anything it would be for an NHL'er.
On the other hand, while the Wild wouldn't give up someone like Graovac for less than a 3rd rounder, I don't think anyone would offer even a third rounder for him. With huge risk (he's a 6'5" almost 20 year old who has never scored until now) and limited upside (ultimately he'd probably at best be a third liner) I think teams would rather take a longer term but higher potential player in the third.
I feel I have to note, I think Graovac is a great prospect to have in the system, and has a real chance to become an NHLer. However, if he'd been a 2nd or 3rd round pick initially, I don't think anyone would be excited about him.
On the other hand, while the Wild wouldn't give up someone like Graovac for less than a 3rd rounder, I don't think anyone would offer even a third rounder for him. With huge risk (he's a 6'5" almost 20 year old who has never scored until now) and limited upside (ultimately he'd probably at best be a third liner) I think teams would rather take a longer term but higher potential player in the third.
I feel I have to note, I think Graovac is a great prospect to have in the system, and has a real chance to become an NHLer. However, if he'd been a 2nd or 3rd round pick initially, I don't think anyone would be excited about him.
Exactly. He's not proven, so his value is not high, but his upside is high for the Wild, and they have plenty of NHL talent right now.
It's an ideal situation, as they could sign him next year and drop an underachieving player from Houston.
Most likely he'll be a bottom-six player if he ever makes it to NHL though.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Everything I've heard about him is that he's top 6 or bust because he has no grit to his game and is not willing to use his size.
I wouldn't be so sure about that. Everything I've heard about him is that he's top 6 or bust because he has no grit to his game and is not willing to use his size.
Really? That's a shame. That being said, if he ever makes it to Houston/Minnesota, he'd be taught to use it, no doubt about it.
He's still leading the OHL in goals, I'd be excited about that regardless of where he was drafted.
You might be, but that doesn't mean it's reasonable to be so excited. Last season's OHL goal scoring leader was Tyler Toffoli who's a decent (former second rounder) prospect for the Kings. But looking further down the scoring list, #2 was Michael Sgarbossa (undrafted, signed by COL), #3 was Seth Griffith (5th rounder, BOS), #5 Tobias Rieder (4th rounder, EDM), #6 Andrew Yogan (4th rounder, NYR), #8 Josh Shalla (4th rounder, NSH), #9 Mike Halmo (undrafted, signed by NYR), #10 Andrew Agozzino (undrafted, signed in AHL).
The only players in the top 10 last season who people might get excited about were Toffoli at #1, Prince at #4, and Rychel at #7 (who is a 2013 draft eligible). Looking at '10-'11 it's the same basic story. A couple of the top 10 guys from that season are in the ECHL or CIS now. The guy who managed to rack up more goals than Jeff Skinner and Tyler Seguin in '09-'10 managed an AHL season but now is in the ECHL for the second consecutive year. The guy who netted more goals in 07-08 than Stamkos is now out of hockey.
You might be, but that doesn't mean it's reasonable to be so excited. Last season's OHL goal scoring leader was Tyler Toffoli who's a decent (former second rounder) prospect for the Kings. But looking further down the scoring list, #2 was Michael Sgarbossa (undrafted, signed by COL), #3 was Seth Griffith (5th rounder, BOS), #5 Tobias Rieder (4th rounder, EDM), #6 Andrew Yogan (4th rounder, NYR), #8 Josh Shalla (4th rounder, NSH), #9 Mike Halmo (undrafted, signed by NYR), #10 Andrew Agozzino (undrafted, signed in AHL).
The only players in the top 10 last season who people might get excited about were Toffoli at #1, Prince at #4, and Rychel at #7 (who is a 2013 draft eligible). Looking at '10-'11 it's the same basic story. A couple of the top 10 guys from that season are in the ECHL or CIS now. The guy who managed to rack up more goals than Jeff Skinner and Tyler Seguin in '09-'10 managed an AHL season but now is in the ECHL for the second consecutive year. The guy who netted more goals in 07-08 than Stamkos is now out of hockey.
I'm not saying that because he's leading the league in goal scoring he will make it in the NHL. His performance so far isn't necessarily indicative of future success but it's just about the best he could be doing in his current situation, and I think that's something to be excited about.
With that size and the offensive ability, I'd say his absolute upside might even be a middle-six power forward.
Most likely he'll be a bottom-six player if he ever makes it to NHL though.
Seeing his size you might think that, but like a few larger NHL players, he relies on good skating, great hands, and a knack for being in the right place with a good shot. He's not very physical.
i'm guessing this performance is akin to Lucia beasting it up last year...nice and flashy but ultimately doesn't hold a strong correlation to scoring at the professional level.
i'm guessing this performance is akin to Lucia beasting it up last year...nice and flashy but ultimately doesn't hold a strong correlation to scoring at the professional level.
I wouldn't put it that way at all. Lucia was on a stacked team. Graovac is making his own chances.
