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Grading the 2008 draft after 3 years

View Poll Results: Grading on a B curve, what grade would you give the 2008 draft?
A+ 2 3.28%
A 7 11.48%
A- 15 24.59%
B+ 14 22.95%
B 15 24.59%
B- 5 8.20%
C+ 2 3.28%
C 0 0%
C- 0 0%
D 0 0%
F 1 1.64%
Voters: 61. You may not vote on this poll

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Old
06-27-2011, 12:25 AM
  #1
Beacon
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Grading the 2008 draft after 3 years

We are grading the 2011 draft with most people agreeing that we'll need to wait another 2-3 years before seeing how it works. Which got me thinking: how would people rank the 2008 draft after three years?

Admittedly, it once looked better. Grachev was seen as a top prospect and Del Zotto did not have his miserable rookie season. But all in all, not bad still.

1. (20) Michael Del Zotto
2. (51) Derek Stepan
3. (75) Evgeny Grachev
3. (90) Tomas Kundratek
4. (111) Dale Weise
5. (141) Chris Doyle
6. (171) Mitch Gaulton

Doyle and Gaulton are almost definitely not turning into anything we could use at the NHL level. Grachev is gone for another #3 pick, so I would call that even. Not really a loss, nor a gain.

Another third rounder, Kundratek, may join the NHL as early as this year, as can fourth rounder Weise.

I still have a lot of hope in Del Zotto, and Stepan may become a first liner or a second liner at worst.

I think both MDZ and Step will be impact player, and either (or both) Weise and Kundratek will be solid role players. And Grachev was replaced with another third rounder. So I will give this draft an B+. If MDZ proves himself, it will be A-. If either Kundratek or Weise become NHLers, than it's an A. If both of them play, then it's A+. If MDZ fails, the grade will drop to somewhere in the C+ to B range, depending on how other kids do.

But for now, I give it B+.

That's my assessment. What's yours?

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Old
06-27-2011, 12:27 AM
  #2
nyr2k2
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I think you need a full five years to properly evaluate a draft.

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06-27-2011, 12:30 AM
  #3
Beacon
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Emma Royd View Post
I think you need a full five years to properly evaluate a draft.
Honestly, you would probably need to give it about 7 years to count for late bloomers and flash in the pan types like Petr Prucha.

But this is a prospects forum, so we are merely tracking the progress of 2008 draftees. I doubt anyone here is interested in grading the 2004 draft, which was quite excellent (Dubinsky, Callahan and Korpikoski).

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06-27-2011, 12:35 AM
  #4
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Id say that is a very strong A draft but it is still early and that was a strong draft year. Im curious to kno about Gaulton, i watched him in juniors a few times and thought he was pretty good and was happy we drafted him but idk whats up.

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06-27-2011, 08:31 AM
  #5
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If Del Zotto bounces back, I think you can call it an A.

If you get a PP QB, offensive defenseman who can put up 50+ points (which is what I imagine Del Zotto's upside to be, and a 1st/2nd line center with 60-70 point upside (Stepan), and a solid defenseman (Kundratek) with your draft, you probably just had a great draft, especially when you were picking in the second half of the 1st round.

But it'll probably take another couple of years to see how Del Zotto works out and what Stepan's ceiling is

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06-27-2011, 08:41 AM
  #6
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Still too early.

But consider Del Zotto and Stepan have shown tremendous potential at the NHL level, an early grade of A.

If you get two very good NHL players out of one draft, that is very successful IMO.

Stepan can be a star.

Del Zotto has the raw skill to be an elite offensive defenseman. If he can just get that confidence in his ability. And tighen up a little defensively.

Hire Leetch to show Del Zotto how to play positionally.

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06-27-2011, 08:43 AM
  #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Levitate View Post
If Del Zotto bounces back, I think you can call it an A.

If you get a PP QB, offensive defenseman who can put up 50+ points (which is what I imagine Del Zotto's upside to be, and a 1st/2nd line center with 60-70 point upside (Stepan), and a solid defenseman (Kundratek) with your draft, you probably just had a great draft, especially when you were picking in the second half of the 1st round.

But it'll probably take another couple of years to see how Del Zotto works out and what Stepan's ceiling is
I agree. Plus, Weise has all the makings of a quality bottom six winger in the NHL, and Kundratek is still developing pretty well. All things considered, it looks like we should have a lot of contributions from the 2008 class.

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06-27-2011, 09:16 AM
  #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RangerEsq View Post
We are grading the 2011 draft with most people agreeing that we'll need to wait another 2-3 years before seeing how it works. Which got me thinking: how would people rank the 2008 draft after three years?

Admittedly, it once looked better. Grachev was seen as a top prospect and Del Zotto did not have his miserable rookie season. But all in all, not bad still.

1. (20) Michael Del Zotto
2. (51) Derek Stepan
3. (75) Evgeny Grachev
3. (90) Tomas Kundratek
4. (111) Dale Weise
5. (141) Chris Doyle
6. (171) Mitch Gaulton

Doyle and Gaulton are almost definitely not turning into anything we could use at the NHL level. Grachev is gone for another #3 pick, so I would call that even. Not really a loss, nor a gain.

Another third rounder, Kundratek, may join the NHL as early as this year, as can fourth rounder Weise.

I still have a lot of hope in Del Zotto, and Stepan may become a first liner or a second liner at worst.

I think both MDZ and Step will be impact player, and either (or both) Weise and Kundratek will be solid role players. And Grachev was replaced with another third rounder. So I will give this draft an B+. If MDZ proves himself, it will be A-. If either Kundratek or Weise become NHLers, than it's an A. If both of them play, then it's A+. If MDZ fails, the grade will drop to somewhere in the C+ to B range, depending on how other kids do.

But for now, I give it B+.

That's my assessment. What's yours?
If your standard for an A is having 4 out of 7 prospects make it to the NHL, that is a very unreasonable standard, and there are only a few drafts in any given club's history worthy of an A. Statistics simply don't agree.

Stepan alone makes this draft a solid B. If MDZ becomes even a top 4 defenseman who contributes on the PP and pots a respectable 35-40 pts per season, the draft is a solid A. Anything north of that for either MDZ or other the prospects (including Fogarty), the draft is a home run.

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06-27-2011, 09:33 AM
  #9
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As of now? Excellent. Del Zotto has shown he can put up around 40 points. Stepan looks like a sure-fire 2nd liner with a chance of becoming a #1 C. Kundratek shows some potential and Weise will be an NHLer.

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06-27-2011, 10:11 AM
  #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowrunner View Post
If your standard for an A is having 4 out of 7 prospects make it to the NHL, that is a very unreasonable standard, and there are only a few drafts in any given club's history worthy of an A. Statistics simply don't agree.

Stepan alone makes this draft a solid B. If MDZ becomes even a top 4 defenseman who contributes on the PP and pots a respectable 35-40 pts per season, the draft is a solid A. Anything north of that for either MDZ or other the prospects (including Fogarty), the draft is a home run.
Agree completely. If you can get an impact player, you laugh like a madman, give yourself an A and move on. Whether Stepan is a first or second line player, either way he will be an impact player for the Rangers for years to come. I feel the same about MDZ - if he can bounce back and become a top 4 offensive dman we should be overjoyed. Getting two players like that in one draft is a freaking homerun considering we never truly tank and get a top 3 pick. A.

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Old
06-27-2011, 10:35 AM
  #11
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B

dstep is a keeper A

mdz is still incomplete. good rookie year. weak sophomore year with injuries. B-

grachev is no longer here so gotta give a D

i happen to like ktek although he hasnt played in the nhl yet. B

the other guys are fodder including weise whom i have no use for what so ever. D

so overall, its a B

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06-27-2011, 10:46 AM
  #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by offdacrossbar View Post
B

dstep is a keeper A

mdz is still incomplete. good rookie year. weak sophomore year with injuries. B-

grachev is no longer here so gotta give a D

i happen to like ktek although he hasnt played in the nhl yet. B

the other guys are fodder including weise whom i have no use for what so ever. D

so overall, its a B
Given that he returned a pick three spots higher in the most recent draft, doesn't Grachev by definition come out at at least a C? I mean, I assume Doyle who flamed out completely is an F, right? But essentially maintaining equal value equates to a D? I know you're down on the player, but that's not logical.

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06-27-2011, 11:22 AM
  #13
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It's too early to give an accurate grade, but as of right now I'm going with a B-. There's only one legitimate NHL player on there (Stepan). Obviously that can change drastically if Del Zotto can bounce back and Kundratek can become a solid NHLer (I don't see Weise ever being more than a 13th forward).

And I don't think you can call Grachev a wash. Yeah we got another 3rd rounder for him, but you're still looking at losing 3 years of development time.

So it's a B- based on right now, but with the potential to be as high as an A or as low as a C-.

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06-27-2011, 11:37 AM
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You don't get the kind of production or potential of Stepan in the 2nd round very often. A+.

Del Zotto has shown signs of being a very good offensive defenseman. Still a little too early but right now I'd give him a B+

Weise has held his own at the NHL level for his few games. He'll be a good 4th liner someday. For a 4th rounder that's a solid pick.B.

Kundratek could be a very solid NHL defenseman and played well at CT. He gets a B+

Grachev netted us a third rounder with huge upside and had two decent years in Hartford with glimpses of being a solid NHLer. C+

Doyle and Gaulton are useless. F

Overall I say it's a B+ right now

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06-27-2011, 11:45 AM
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Probably too early too call, It can be as good as an A or as bad as a D depending on how Del Zotto and Stepan pan out. Did they have brilliant rookie seasons followed by mediocrity? Or is there more to see? Need 3 or 4 more years to tell.

What I can say is we struck gold getting Staal and Girardi. Arguably the best defensive pairing in the league.

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06-27-2011, 12:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrooklynRangersFan View Post
Given that he returned a pick three spots higher in the most recent draft, doesn't Grachev by definition come out at at least a C? I mean, I assume Doyle who flamed out completely is an F, right? But essentially maintaining equal value equates to a D? I know you're down on the player, but that's not logical.
when you are only 21 and considered at one time among our top prospects and then you are moved for a high school kid in a weak draft, you get a D.

and that says nothing about this fogarty kid. that wasnt the issue here. its about the draft and the players chosen not what happens after they are in the system. thats another story.

with sanguinetti- pick, korpikoski- lisin gone to khl, werek-swap of decent prospects as lindberg looks like a nice player and now grachev- pick, all those guys were taken with high hopes. none of them are still our property.

the only one that could perhaps be viewed differently is horak. he was moved for a guy who looks to be an nhl top 4 dman.

all those would receive a D from me.

as much as i want to believe that gordie and his staff never make mistakes[mcilrath ], i am seeing proof that says to me its quite the contrary.

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06-27-2011, 12:18 PM
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There's not a front office on the planet that doesn't make mistakes.

Anyway, if Del Zotto rebounds, the draft becomes an absolute A.

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06-27-2011, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Emma Royd View Post
There's not a front office on the planet that doesn't make mistakes.

Anyway, if Del Zotto rebounds, the draft becomes an absolute A.
not according to many posters here.

if mdz comes back and plays top 4 minutes as the pmd he can be, and his defensive game improves alot, then yes this draft is an A.

stepan and an improved mdz alone make it a winner.

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06-28-2011, 02:03 PM
  #19
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Based on what we've seen it's an A no doubt. That said it's still way to premature for it to mean anything.

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06-28-2011, 02:33 PM
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If you get one player out of a draft, you've done your job. The Rangers could have legitimately gotten 4 players out of this draft. Grachev has been moved for a pick so we're still looking at 3 players who still have a legitimate shot at the NHL and that's not a stretch at all. This is for sure an A+ draft, easily, one of the best in years.

When was the last time the Rangers had a prospect lead the WJC in scoring? Or even have a top prospect in the WJC? This draft produced just that and it wasn't even the #1 pick.

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06-28-2011, 02:50 PM
  #21
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Originally Posted by NYRSchrute217 View Post

Grachev netted us a third rounder with huge upside and had two decent years in Hartford with glimpses of being a solid NHLer. C+

Doyle and Gaulton are useless. F

Overall I say it's a B+ right now
I'd say I disagree that having your 5th and 6th rounders not make it qualifies as an 'F'. Perhaps 'C' or 'D' since after 3 years they don't seem to have any value. But if they were marginally useful, are they then 'A's?

Obviously the strength of the class would need to be considered, but as far as I'm concerned, at this point, this was A work by Gordie and co.
http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/draft/nhl2008e.html

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06-28-2011, 03:09 PM
  #22
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Yeah, this isn't like the NFL where it's reasonable to expect a guy picked in round five or six to become a contributor down the road. A hockey draftee picked that late has like a 5% or less chance of becoming an NHL player. If you award an F grade to every failed pick at that point in the draft, then 95% of the picks in any given year will prove to be F-graded.

I'd say Doyle was a C. He was a pick with upside, pretty good value where he was picked. He never made it, or doesn't look like he'll ever make it, but I think you need to grade on how much sense the pick made at the time, and grade each pick relative to what else was available. Doyle was a pretty average pick in those respects.

Gaulton, I'd say, would also receive a C. Somewhere in that area. He was a guy with injuries but a good deal of talent. When you're in the sixth round, it's not a bad idea to take a flier on a guy like that. If it works out, great, you've got a player; if not, well, it was a sixth round pick.

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06-28-2011, 03:15 PM
  #23
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To me, anytime you get a player who looks like he could realize 1A Center status, the draft deserves no less than an A-. MDZ is the X factor here and if he reaches any of his potential, the grade goes up. To me, the lower guys not developing doesn't hurt my grade of this draft at ALL. You don't expect those guys to go anywhere. So Grachev didn't pan out. To me, being upset about that is like being upset that Dalyn Flatt didn't pan out when you have Staal and Sauer.

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06-28-2011, 04:10 PM
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Could be anywhere from a D to an A depending on Del Zotto.

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06-28-2011, 04:42 PM
  #25
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Could be anywhere from a D to an A depending on Del Zotto.

I think at a minimum this draft is a C+. And that's if Stepan fails to improve at all, Del Zotto never learns to play NHL defense and spends his career in the AHL, and both Kundratek and Weise fail to make it.

Realistically, this draft is at a minimum a B+ assuming either Del Zotto or Kundratek become solid NHLers, and Stepan continues to improve.

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