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What are the chances that Burke signs another top 4 defenceman?

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Old
06-25-2011, 06:34 PM
  #51
Spazmatic Dan
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There are only two scenarios in which I see this being a possibility:

1) A trade occurs involving Luke Schenn (cringe) or Keith Aulie (less cringe, but still pretty cringe) for a #1 center. In this case we would need a replacement top 4 guy....unfortunately top end defensive oriented guys seem to be lacking in this year's free agency pool. I don't like this scenario.

2) Mike Komisarek is traded away and that money is allocated to another defenseman. Something like:

UFA-Phaneuf
Liles-Schenn
Aulie-Gunnarsson

Could be interesting although it'll also be interesting to see how Komi does this year. He'll probably wear an 'A' for the team as well.

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06-25-2011, 06:36 PM
  #52
Spazmatic Dan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mess View Post
Did you think trading Kaberle away, replacing him with Aulie and upping the playing time of Gunnarsson two better defense dmen might have been a reason for the on ice improvement?.

Now Leafs are bringing in a 20 minute offensive dman to replace Kaberle's offensive, who is even weaker defensively than Tomas was.

This move is not made to help protect Reimer but fix the PP.

So will Burke address the need to fix the PK and goals against by providing additional help for the defense with a new addition?
One would hope that having a 4.5 million dollar defenseman on the bottom pairing would provide enough defensive help in this case.

Unfortunately, Komisarek has struggled...

Maybe he can turn it around.

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06-25-2011, 06:58 PM
  #53
seanlinden
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Burke should be looking at signing another top 4 guy. Liles was a great addition at the cost we paid (especially when you see what other trades went down), but you're still asking one of Komisarek, Gunnarsson or Aulie to be mainstays in the top 4. The only guy who's ever really shown that ability is Komisarek, but that's not going to happen in Toronto.

With very suspect goaltending from the Reimer/Gustavsson tandem going in, we're going to need one heck of a team around them, and right now our blueline just isn't good enough on paper.

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06-25-2011, 08:37 PM
  #54
Hero
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If we could somehow move Komi, or bury him. Adding Pitkanen or Wis would be amazing.

Aulie - Phaneuf
Liles - Schenn
Gunnarson - Wis

Solid d-core.

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06-25-2011, 09:00 PM
  #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Burke should be looking at signing another top 4 guy. Liles was a great addition at the cost we paid (especially when you see what other trades went down), but you're still asking one of Komisarek, Gunnarsson or Aulie to be mainstays in the top 4. The only guy who's ever really shown that ability is Komisarek, but that's not going to happen in Toronto.

With very suspect goaltending from the Reimer/Gustavsson tandem going in, we're going to need one heck of a team around them, and right now our blueline just isn't good enough on paper.
In extended time perhaps, but both Gunnar and Aulie showed apt ability to get it done over the last 25 games or so. In fact, one might go as far to say Aulie's presence in the top-4 augmented Phaneuf's level of play.

To be a serious playoff threat, we HAVE to count on our young guys to grow and get better, at the very minimum play as well as they did last year in the last 25 games.

This includes Schenn, Aulie and Gunnar.

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06-25-2011, 09:02 PM
  #56
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I think the chances of at least one of Aulie, Gunnar, or Komi being able to handle 2nd pairing minutes are pretty good.

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06-25-2011, 09:11 PM
  #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafsandSharksfan View Post
I think the chances of at least one of Aulie, Gunnar, or Komi being able to handle 2nd pairing minutes are pretty good.
Given the way all 3 of them played towards the end of the last season, there is reason for a little optimism.

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06-25-2011, 09:42 PM
  #58
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Originally Posted by NoTouchIcing View Post
In extended time perhaps, but both Gunnar and Aulie showed apt ability to get it done over the last 25 games or so. In fact, one might go as far to say Aulie's presence in the top-4 augmented Phaneuf's level of play.

To be a serious playoff threat, we HAVE to count on our young guys to grow and get better, at the very minimum play as well as they did last year in the last 25 games.

This includes Schenn, Aulie and Gunnar.
That's the point -- they've shown flashes of being top 4 guys, but never on a team that was anywhere close to the playoffs, and never for an extended period of time.

To be a serious playoff threat, we have to be a good team without our young guys developing, and rely on their development to add depth. In the case of the blueline, we should be looking at a 3rd pair of Gunnarson-Aulie, so that if they develop we're all of a sudden 5 or 6 deep in terms of guys who can play in the top 4, and at worst 4-deep.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LeafsandSharksfan View Post
I think the chances of at least one of Aulie, Gunnar, or Komi being able to handle 2nd pairing minutes are pretty good.
The problem isn't one of them -- it's two. Last year, the Leafs were extremely fortunate to have minimal injuries on the blueline, and we also had the depth to accomodate the one injury we did have. This year, like all teams, we realistically have to expect that on any given night, we'll problably be playing 1 defenceman short, in which case you're relying on two of Gunnarsson, Aulie and Komisarek to be top 4 guys.

What we should be doing is relying on one of Gunnarsson/Aulie to be the guy that steps into the top 4when an injury occurs.

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06-25-2011, 10:12 PM
  #59
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Originally Posted by LeafOfBread View Post
Who knows, maybe the coaching will be better this year? Our defense was also pretty solid once we had a consistently good goalie in there (Reimer) Phaneuf recovered from his injury and the Phaneuf / Aulie pairing replaced the Komisarek / Beauchamin one as our top shutdown pair.
Fixed it for you.

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06-25-2011, 10:19 PM
  #60
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I wouldn't mind signing Erhoff/Wis,
but that also means that Aulie would be gone.

(and don't dream about trading Komi, I don't believe there will be any taker, and I don't want to PAY other team to take him)

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06-25-2011, 10:21 PM
  #61
seanlinden
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KiwiPuck217 View Post
I wouldn't mind signing Erhoff/Wis,
but that also means that Aulie would be gone.

(and don't dream about trading Komi, I don't believe there will be any taker, and I don't want to PAY other team to take him)
Who'd have thought there would be a taker for Campbell?

With the cap at $64m and the floor at $48, you never know...

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06-26-2011, 12:28 AM
  #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seanlinden View Post
Who'd have thought there would be a taker for Campbell?

With the cap at $64m and the floor at $48, you never know...
To be fair, Chicago took an equally bad contract back in Olesz. Komisarek still has something to prove to Burke and I honestly think he will not be moved. That being said if we stand-pat with our current defense I question the hockey IQ of it. It's not so much that were a bad defensive team, our defense is just poor at making decisions. Komisarek, Aulie, Phaneuf, Schenn all have moments of defensive lapses. For the most part this improved as the season went on but I think this was over-shadowed by the birth of James Reimer. Any team thats winning in retrospect will look better defensively then a team thats losing. That being said while I would prefer if our team found a way to dump Komisarek and sign a defenseman with a high hockey IQ I just don't see it rational

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06-26-2011, 12:57 AM
  #63
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I've been all for signing a top 4 defenceman, but when I see the cost and term for Markov and Brewer, I get shy.

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06-26-2011, 12:59 AM
  #64
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Before I make anymore decisions on a defenceman, I'd like to know what will happen with out #1 center.

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06-26-2011, 01:40 AM
  #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Man Hole Inspector View Post
To be fair, Chicago took an equally bad contract back in Olesz.
If Bowman does the right thing, that contract ain't as bad you think.

Rostislav Olesz buyout from CapGeek.com
2011-12: $372,222
2012-13: -$227,778
2013-14: -$477,778
2014-15: $647,222
2015-16: $647,222
2016-17: $647,222

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06-26-2011, 09:37 AM
  #66
seanlinden
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Originally Posted by Man Hole Inspector View Post
To be fair, Chicago took an equally bad contract back in Olesz. Komisarek still has something to prove to Burke and I honestly think he will not be moved. That being said if we stand-pat with our current defense I question the hockey IQ of it. It's not so much that were a bad defensive team, our defense is just poor at making decisions. Komisarek, Aulie, Phaneuf, Schenn all have moments of defensive lapses. For the most part this improved as the season went on but I think this was over-shadowed by the birth of James Reimer. Any team thats winning in retrospect will look better defensively then a team thats losing. That being said while I would prefer if our team found a way to dump Komisarek and sign a defenseman with a high hockey IQ I just don't see it rational
Like another poster mentioned, Olesz' contract is nowhere near as bad as Campbell's. Plus, taking on a bad contract for Komisarek should be something that we're willing to do -- as long as that bad contract comes in the form of a player who fits into our top 4.

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06-26-2011, 10:50 AM
  #67
middletoe
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I think Gardiner is ready for the Leafs top 4. I think he'd do really well with Schenn.

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06-26-2011, 10:54 AM
  #68
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I think Gardiner is ready for the Leafs top 4. I think he'd do really well with Schenn.
Gardiner is not ready for any spot on the Leafs.

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06-26-2011, 10:55 AM
  #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom King View Post
If Bowman does the right thing, that contract ain't as bad you think.

Rostislav Olesz buyout from CapGeek.com
2011-12: $372,222
2012-13: -$227,778
2013-14: -$477,778
2014-15: $647,222
2015-16: $647,222
2016-17: $647,222
olesz is injured so he can't be bought out like Drury.

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06-26-2011, 10:59 AM
  #70
middletoe
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Originally Posted by streits View Post
Gardiner is not ready for any spot on the Leafs.
You might be right. I've seen him in three AHL games and to me he looks like a man playing among boys. He reminds me of Kaberle kind of. But he's faster and more physical. He just looks ready to me. Why do you say he's not ready?

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06-26-2011, 11:13 AM
  #71
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Originally Posted by middletoe View Post
You might be right. I've seen him in three AHL games and to me he looks like a man playing among boys. He reminds me of Kaberle kind of. But he's faster and more physical. He just looks ready to me. Why do you say he's not ready?
Gardiner has NHL level skating but that's about it. Another year minimum before we see him.

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Old
06-26-2011, 11:17 AM
  #72
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As many have said, the only way this works is if one is packaged in a deal for a 1C and we get a depth defenseman too.

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06-26-2011, 11:24 AM
  #73
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Lebda 5-9/195 & JM Lilies 5-10/185

There are very few sized 5-10 and below defenders employed in the NHL throughout and Leafs now have two of them, and the minute there is a injury we could see them in the line-up at the same time.

There are more similarities beyond stature, in that their both free skating, non physical, PMD that are weak defensively. JM Liles is a -30 +/- combined over the last three season.. He was a -9 last season but a couple years ago in 2009 he finished the season at -19 which was the 7th worst mark among all players league wide. (http://espn.go.com/nhl/statistics/pl...09/order/false ).

Remember what Brett Lebda looked like on the ice when he was a -19 last season for us?

Toss in a struggling Komisarek limited to < 15 minutes playing 3rd pairing and 3 youngsters still learning in Schenn, Aulie and Gunnarsson along with Phaneuf as you group of 7 next year and you have to be nervous.

Leafs plan at this point to be deploying 2 goalies with 100 NHL games combined total experience, which are going to need to be insulated defensively.

So all things considered I hope that what you we see now with this current group of 7 is not the end result finished product to begin the season, and that Burke has more changes and moves planned to reshape it.

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Old
06-26-2011, 11:51 AM
  #74
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I don't want to overpay (massively, because there are many teams in the market for a top4 dman), when we don't need it. Pitkanen will get 6mil, wizzy and ehrhoff will get 5-5.5 mil.

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06-26-2011, 12:04 PM
  #75
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If we were going to sign another defensemen I hope it's Wisniewski. Could play with Komisarek as our 3rd pairing and could play on the 2nd PP unit. If we signed Richards he'd play the point on our 1st PP unit with Phaneuf and then Liles and Wiz as our defense pairing on our 2nd PP unit. I think we could use a right handed d man who has a good shot.

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