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Stamkos, Philly and Luongo Rumors

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Old
06-27-2011, 11:20 AM
  #101
mja
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Originally Posted by Frank Drebin View Post
GM's don't offersheet out of spite. If they do they should be fired.
I'm still waiting for the Canucks to go after a Philly player out of spite for tendering an offer to Kesler a few years back.

It doesn't make any sense to throw around offer sheets out of spite. You only do so if you actually want the player you are tendering an offer to.

Otherwise, what happens if you actually win the player? You have a player you didn't particularly want, gave up draft picks you didn't want to give up, and are taking a cap hit that is liable to be out of line from what the guy actually deserves. You've also committed the fatal error of worrying more about getting back at another team instead of what is best for your own. It'd be a catastrophe.

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06-27-2011, 11:23 AM
  #102
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Come July 1st the Flyers could make an competitive offer sheet quite easily. On July 1st there is a 10% increase tacked onto the cap until final rosters. So the flyers could make a competitive offer sheet with their current cap space of approx 5mill, plus the 10% kicker, and then some minor moves. It isnt about the money..that part of the equation is doable. We just have to hope he doesnt sign until july 1st..and that he wants out of Tampa. Because they are going to do everything they can to keep him.

Also we have our 1st rd picks for the next 4 yrs.. so we do have the draft picks.



According to capgeek, the Flyers have 7.5million in cap space. 10% is an extra 6.5million. that is 14million without qualifying offers for Voracek and Simmonds, tender them minimal raises, which would eat up about an extra 2mill. Dont tender Powe, Carcillo, or Nodl. Leaves us at 12million to be able to make an offer sheet to Stamkos. If he accepts, then dump Shelley/Leighton..put Lappy on LTIR(that would give us an extra 4mill in room). Build the contract around us to be able to be under the cap this year. And then if you have to then trade a player like Carle or Versteeg. It wouldnt be as hard as people think.

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Old
06-27-2011, 11:31 AM
  #103
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Why the hell do people post eklund "rumours"?

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Post? Some people pay for them!

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Old
06-27-2011, 11:32 AM
  #104
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According to Stamkos he's happy there, likes the organization, and feels the contract is very close to done. I see no reason to doubt the guy's own words, which is the best source we have on the matter.

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06-27-2011, 11:43 AM
  #105
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If I was Stamkos, there's no way I would even look at the Philly offer (if one is even realistic at all) after what they did to Richards and Carter.
Good point. IMO, trading Richards and Carter is really gonna hurt Philly's FA signings cause plyers know there is no guarantee that they will playout their contract in Philly.

You could sign an 11 year deal and expect to be on a contender in a city you like and one year into it you could be traded to a franchise that's never won a PO game in ****in Ohio for the next decade. Not too appealing to me.

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Old
06-27-2011, 11:48 AM
  #106
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It may be delusional speaking here, but how funny would it be if Tampa ended up with Stamkos and Richards signed on the first day of Free agency. I would be on here all day seeing people say, how can Tampa do this? they have financial issues. Would be a riot. Either way, Tampa will end up with Stamkos if not Richards will come back. That is what will most likely happen. Id be shocked if we ended up with both, but as I said. Id be on here laughing like crazy at fans who said we wouldnt be able to.

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06-27-2011, 11:51 AM
  #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
Good point. IMO, trading Richards and Carter is really gonna hurt Philly's FA signings cause plyers know there is no guarantee that they will playout their contract in Philly.

You could sign an 11 year deal and expect to be on a contender in a city you like and one year into it you could be traded to a franchise that's never won a PO game in ****in Ohio for the next decade. Not too appealing to me.
Has Carter reported to Columbus yet?

Classless move by Philly there should be grounds for termination of a contract when you sign someone for a decade and then trade their contract without telling them.

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Old
06-27-2011, 11:56 AM
  #108
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to whoever brought up the 8 year/$62.5 million offersheet-

tampa would match that in a SECOND.

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Old
06-27-2011, 12:00 PM
  #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Colin Whites Eye View Post
to whoever brought up the 8 year/$62.5 million offersheet-

tampa would match that in a SECOND.
This man is a member of their management team and so he can state this factually with confidence

But yeah I'm inclined to think it would have to be something ridiculous for Tampa to not match. Who knows, though.

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Old
06-27-2011, 12:03 PM
  #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedeSpeedBackstrom View Post
Has Carter reported to Columbus yet?

Classless move by Philly there should be grounds for termination of a contract when you sign someone for a decade and then trade their contract without telling them.
If Carter didn't want to be stuck for 11 years in a place where he didn't want to play then he shouldn't have signed an 11 year extension until he had the protection of an NTC/NMC. If he truly felt that strong about not being stuck in a place he could have signed in Philly for 1 year and then re-upped over the next summer when his deal could include a NTC

Yes, it was a pretty ********* move of Holmgren to sign him to that extension and then trade him before it even kicked in, but there's nothing wrong about it from a CBA perspective, just from a "nice guy" perspective.

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06-27-2011, 12:05 PM
  #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SwedeSpeedBackstrom View Post
Has Carter reported to Columbus yet?

Classless move by Philly there should be grounds for termination of a contract when you sign someone for a decade and then trade their contract without telling them.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hatterson View Post
If Carter didn't want to be stuck for 11 years in a place where he didn't want to play then he shouldn't have signed an 11 year extension until he had the protection of an NTC/NMC. If he truly felt that strong about not being stuck in a place he could have signed in Philly for 1 year and then re-upped over the next summer when his deal could include a NTC

Yes, it was a pretty ********* move of Holmgren to sign him to that extension and then trade him before it even kicked in, but there's nothing wrong about it from a CBA perspective, just from a "nice guy" perspective.
If he wanted to stay, he should have gotten a NTC or NMC.

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Old
06-27-2011, 12:11 PM
  #112
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Originally Posted by IrishSniper87 View Post
If he wanted to stay, he should have gotten a NTC or NMC.
What? He did. A NTC/NMC doesn't kick until a player reaches UFA status, which would've been July 1st 2012.

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06-27-2011, 12:13 PM
  #113
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Originally Posted by GKJ View Post
It's already been a fantasy league-type offseason for the Flyers, so a boy can dream.
As an aside, and moving the aggregate moves to the side for now, you must be over the moon that they finallya ddressed the goalie situation GKJ. You have been calling for them to do that for forever.

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Old
06-27-2011, 12:17 PM
  #114
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What? He did. A NTC/NMC doesn't kick until a player reaches UFA status, which would've been July 1st 2012.
Well he should have changes the rules of the CBA or gotten older, obviously. If Carter didn't want to play in Columbus he should never have signed a contract in Philly. Totally his own damn fault.

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06-27-2011, 12:18 PM
  #115
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On the Carter/Richards thing, I am torn.

I feel for Carter and Richards. I know they signed deals that were meant to make them Flyers for life. Trading them before their NTCs kicked in was a sneaky move by Homer and I'm sure Richie/Carter hate him for it.

However, if Carter and Richards were a detriment to the team and were of the mindset that the Flyers are "their" team and nothing can change that because of their contract, I can see Holmgren wanting to get rid of bad attitudes like that before it's too late.

I don't know about Carter, but Richards clearly went because of personal issues. I have to trust that Homer (and Snider, because Snider had to have been in on this) didn't ruin the potential FA signing opportunities all because they felt like getting some draft picks. There had to have been a good reason.

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Old
06-27-2011, 12:23 PM
  #116
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Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
On the Carter/Richards thing, I am torn.

I feel for Carter and Richards. I know they signed deals that were meant to make them Flyers for life. Trading them before their NTCs kicked in was a sneaky move by Homer and I'm sure Richie/Carter hate him for it.

However, if Carter and Richards were a detriment to the team and were of the mindset that the Flyers are "their" team and nothing can change that because of their contract, I can see Holmgren wanting to get rid of bad attitudes like that before it's too late.

I don't know about Carter, but Richards clearly went because of personal issues. I have to trust that Homer (and Snider, because Snider had to have been in on this) didn't ruin the potential FA signing opportunities all because they felt like getting some draft picks. There had to have been a good reason.
IMO, there's no way that it didn't hurt the potential PA signings. Now everyone knows there is a chance that Philly won't honer their commitment. If you're a UFA and Philly's telling you that they want you to be a Flyer for life and you're gonna be the face of their franchise are you gonna believe them? I sure as hell wouldn't.

Like I said above, you could end up playing in ****ing Ohio for the rest of your career.

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Old
06-27-2011, 12:27 PM
  #117
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
IMO, there's no way that it didn't hurt the potential PA signings. Now everyone knows there is a chance that Philly won't honer their commitment. If you're a UFA and Philly's telling you that they want you to be a Flyer for life and you're gonna be the face of their franchise are you gonna believe them? I sure as hell wouldn't.

Like I said above, you could end up playing in ****ing Ohio for the rest of your career.
Didn't seem to affect Bryzgalov

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Old
06-27-2011, 12:30 PM
  #118
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If Carter didn't want to be stuck for 11 years in a place where he didn't want to play then he shouldn't have signed an 11 year extension until he had the protection of an NTC/NMC. If he truly felt that strong about not being stuck in a place he could have signed in Philly for 1 year and then re-upped over the next summer when his deal could include a NTC

Yes, it was a pretty ********* move of Holmgren to sign him to that extension and then trade him before it even kicked in, but there's nothing wrong about it from a CBA perspective, just from a "nice guy" perspective.
for the record it wasnt homer it was Snider. They both had off ice issues with partying and abusing prescription drugs as is, both trades were good for our team, and in the end it is business, you cant be a nice guy when you are trying to win.

yea, these trades totally effect players ability to sign here long term, good thing Bryzgalov didnt just sign for 9 years..... oh wait

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06-27-2011, 12:30 PM
  #119
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Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
IMO, there's no way that it didn't hurt the potential PA signings. Now everyone knows there is a chance that Philly won't honer their commitment. If you're a UFA and Philly's telling you that they want you to be a Flyer for life and you're gonna be the face of their franchise are you gonna believe them? I sure as hell wouldn't.

Like I said above, you could end up playing in ****ing Ohio for the rest of your career.
I felt like you disregarded everything I wrote previously. IF you believe Carter and Richie were traded by Holmgren for no other reason than getting younger/out of their contracts/draft picks, then of course they look horrible.

However, if Carter and Richards were causing serious problems for the team, then I can see how a player would still sign with Philly regardless.

And, I hate to be the 3rd to say it, but Bryzgalov did just sign here. Just saying.


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Old
06-27-2011, 12:47 PM
  #120
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Bryzgalov signed there because they gave him $50 million dollars......

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06-27-2011, 12:48 PM
  #121
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Bryzgalov signed there because they gave him $50 million dollars......
So you're saying because a team paid a free agent a lot of money, he signed there?

Who'da thunk it.

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06-27-2011, 12:56 PM
  #122
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If he wanted to stay, he should have gotten a NTC or NMC.
He did, starting from the first moment it possibly could. And, reportedly, a verbal promise that he wouldn't be traded before it kicked in.

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Old
06-27-2011, 12:58 PM
  #123
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I think Steve Y will go hard after Tuukka Rask next offseason

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06-27-2011, 01:07 PM
  #124
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What? He did. A NTC/NMC doesn't kick until a player reaches UFA status, which would've been July 1st 2012.
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Originally Posted by Habtacular View Post
He did, starting from the first moment it possibly could. And, reportedly, a verbal promise that he wouldn't be traded before it kicked in.
So, the Flyers have every right to trade the guy, and they do. Whats the big deal?

I agree it's kind of a crappy thing to do to a player, but you have no clue what happens behind the scenes. Rumors in Philly make Carter and Richards out to be less the perfect angels. Far from it in fact.

Either way, I doubt it results in FA's refusing to sign in Philly who would have signed before the Carts/Richie trades. However, that's all behind the scenes stuff also, so we have no idea.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragamuffin Gunner View Post
IMO, there's no way that it didn't hurt the potential PA signings. Now everyone knows there is a chance that Philly won't honer their commitment. If you're a UFA and Philly's telling you that they want you to be a Flyer for life and you're gonna be the face of their franchise are you gonna believe them? I sure as hell wouldn't.

Like I said above, you could end up playing in ****ing Ohio for the rest of your career.
Blah blah, you have no clue what goes on in the locker room, between the coach and the players, and ownership and the players, but you somehow expect Free Agents to hit the FU button on their phones when Philly pops up on their caller id on July 1st. Funny.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BrindamoursNose View Post
I felt like you disregarded everything I wrote previously. IF you believe Carter and Richie were traded by Holmgren for no other reason than getting younger/out of their contracts/draft picks, then of course they look horrible.

However, if Carter and Richards were causing serious problems for the team, then I can see how a player would still sign with Philly regardless.

And, I hate to be the 3rd to say it, but Bryzgalov did just sign here. Just saying.
Rumor is they were causing problems.

Anyway, they get traded and the Flyers sign a goalie to a 9 year deal. It didn't hurt them then, did it?

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Old
06-27-2011, 01:11 PM
  #125
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I can't see Tampa matching 10 years $100 million. I just don't see it. I can see them bringing in Brad Richards for 4 years, but not 10 for $100.

Nodl just signed, Powe is no loss.

Voracek and Simmonds for Stamkos? Not a problem.

I think the scenario is Tampa matching the offer. The owner is a deep pocketed hockey fan. The 10% summertime cap cushion is only a bit over 6 million so some of cap space would have to be cleared before the offer is made. Then Tampa waits until the last minute to match and the Flyers are screwed as most others of value are gone. All that cap and nothing to spend it on.
The following year the Lightning and also maybe a very close friend of Yzerman's (Bowman - Chicago) whose team will have ample cap space makes an offer or 2 which could again cripple the Flyers the following season (match and become cap strapped or don't and greatly weaken your team). And Simmonds or Voracek would look great in an Indianhead.

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