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Phoenix XXXVIII: Hulsizer Pulls Bid For Coyotes; UPD 2 unnamed interested buyers

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Old
06-27-2011, 11:19 PM
  #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAROONSRoad View Post
Two words: Quebec City.

"Jim Balsillie" is also two words. Is he forgiven yet? -- could be done in a hurry if needed.
I would doubt that the NHL wants Balsillie, or that Balsillie wants the NHL.

I think he will watch with interest to see just how much someone else will eventually pay for the team.

It might be the best deal he never made.

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06-27-2011, 11:21 PM
  #77
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Originally Posted by Koss View Post
I think MH pulled his bid weeks ago when the rumors were first flying around and when he was shamed into attending a playoff game. I think the NHL asked him to keep quiet until after the ATL sale.
Agree. The league didnt want any distractions through the playoffs, got one anyway with Atlanta-Winnipeg, whereas here they could control the message somewhat, though the Westgate Foreclosure mustve' played into all of this and has clearly set everyone back on their heels yet again.

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....the prospect of trying to cross-subsidize with two financially fragile entities seems like a long shot.,,,,The only other option might be for the NHL to greatly reduce the purchase price of the team. But if they were willing to do that I would have expected Hulsizer to be able to close a deal and not walk away. His departure from the scene suggests to me that the NHL has remained intransigent in the purchase price.
A Moon Shot. Unless the Bidwells get involved along with some really heavy hitters including Reinsdorf in a purchase that includes the mall etc I just dont see how this gets done. Do you suppose the "Mystery Group" is the Tohono's Band Whileee?. Bid on Westgate & approach the NHL?.

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Originally Posted by XX View Post
This one is wired for relocation.
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Originally Posted by LeftCoast View Post
Somethings never die.


Exactly. Like the Coyotes & their fans, Just Waitin on a Friend.... and most definitely wired.

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06-27-2011, 11:23 PM
  #78
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The only positive news for Phoenix is Winnipeg got their team so you won't get hammered on by that group of misfits....many a great Winnipeg fan and obviously the actions of their fan base this spring showed they put their money where their mouth was and good on them but i swear at times this past year I was cheering for Phoenix to keep the team just because I thought and still think so many of the great season ticket holders that have hung in taking the brutal pounding defending their team deserve better.....honestly I hope a good option presents itself and you get a solid owner

If you take a look at the past three new owners in Tampa, buffalo, and Winnipeg and maybe roll in Dallas the NHL has started to get it "very right" so here's hoping for you boys.....Goyotes, XX, RR and AP just to mention a few

This is just so fricking painful to watch

Tomorrow I select my seats with my friends in P1 in Winnipeg and I am not ashamed to admit I have been brought to tears so often this spring as our 15 years in the wilderness have come to an end.....I will make amazing memories with my wife, young son, and buddies....often we were pitted against each other this past year and we really have allot more in common than one might think.....long suffering hockey fans sharing the same painful history and an uncertain future......I only hope you guys can have a happy ending

I raise my glass in a toast to my embattled friends....here's to new beginnings for all of us in 2011-12

As the great history major John Belushi would say in Animal house......."was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl harbor"


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06-27-2011, 11:25 PM
  #79
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Originally Posted by OthmarAmmann View Post
I still place a fair bit of blame on the CoG. They should never have walked on JR last year.
I think Glendale did too much, not too little. They went over the edge with financial assistance to the point that it became potentially illegal. If they had been a bit more restrained I wonder if they would have had better results.

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06-27-2011, 11:29 PM
  #80
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Originally Posted by XX View Post
There aren't enough masochists in Arizona to pay $2k to watch the Jason LOLBarbra show. Sorry.
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Originally Posted by AP View Post

The market deserves a good about of the blame and its a shame that our own local media wont rip into the market for its lack of loyality towards all the pro sports teams through the worst of times
.
Spot on.

Listen XX, this is not just about the Yotes. This is Phoenix once again showing they are an apathetic market. You show up good or bad, not just when they win. Look at the Cards when they didn't win, they didn't draw either. Or the Backs, and they where good. Losing the Yotes is one thing, but this attitude of "we have better stuff to than to watch losing teams" has to stop or Phoenix will lose these teams drop off the map. Phoenix will cease to be a major city.

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06-27-2011, 11:32 PM
  #81
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The market deserves a good about of the blame and its a shame that our own local media wont rip into the market for its lack of loyality towards all the pro sports teams through the worst of times.
I don't blame the customers very much either. Where I grew up (Winnipeg), my Dad's favourite saying was "The customer is never wrong." All sports franchises go through ups and downs. Dry spells (even as long and sustained as the Coyotes') are to be expected. If the franchise is fundamentally viable, the league and the franchise owner can overcome that with enough perseverence.

I think the real problem is the owners (Moyes and his predecessors) and the league lost confidence in the ability of the franchise to eventually turn a profit, or they lacked the patience and resolve to see it through until it did become profitable.

If the NHL were willing to invest as much as the City of Glendale in its own product, the franchise would not be at risk.

Don't blame people who don't care about hockey for not showing up; or for people who do care for not spending more on this form of entertainment than they care to spend. It's up to the league to sell its product wherever it goes.

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06-27-2011, 11:36 PM
  #82
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
This is Phoenix once again showing they are an apathetic market.
I never said otherwise, but don't preach to me about showing up good or bad. This isn't Toronto or the Cubs. There's a certain expectation that the team have some sort of plan and not a total joke of a team. It's called entertainment. That's what sports are for. There was nothing entertaining about Wayne's World (The Gretzky era) and thus the team brutalized their chance to capitalize on a new building.

I have better **** to do than to go watch a lottery team in person, much less pay money to go see it. I still follow the team religiously, just not financially. That's to be expected. Few cities can tolerate a total joke of an organization.

And somehow I'm a lesser fan because I don't spend money on an organization that had zero plan and the worst case of nepotism probably in the history of sports? Whatever. I'd hate to be a 'true fan' then. Seems more in line with being a sheep or total sucker than an objective human being.

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06-27-2011, 11:39 PM
  #83
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Originally Posted by XX View Post
I never said otherwise, but don't preach to me about showing up good or bad. This isn't Toronto or the Cubs. There's a certain expectation that the team have some sort of plan and not a total joke of a team. It's called entertainment. That's what sports are for. There was nothing entertaining about Wayne's World (The Gretzky era) and thus the team brutalized their chance to capitalize on a new building.

I have better **** to do than to go watch a lottery team in person, much less pay money to go see it. I still follow the team religiously, just not financially. That's to be expected. Few cities can tolerate a total joke of an organization.

And somehow I'm a lesser fan because I don't spend money on an organization that had zero plan and the worst case of nepotism probably in the history of sports? Whatever. I'd hate to be a 'true fan' then. Seems more in line with being a sheep or total sucker than an objective human being.
Like I said. This is not just the Yotes. People are always saying the same things about the other teams too. Its not that Phoenix is a bad hockey, its that is a bad sports market period. The Cards, D backs will draw files when they aren't winning.

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06-27-2011, 11:42 PM
  #84
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Like I said. This is not just the Yotes. People are always saying the same things about the other teams too. Its not that Phoenix is a bad hockey, its that is a bad sports market period. The Cards, D backs will draw files when they aren't winning.
It's not a bad sports market; it's a new one. All of the teams save perhaps the Suns are arguably 'new' to the city. They have nowhere near the history of other sports teams, and definitely not the amount of success. There are no glory days, no storied past. No charming building. Just the worst ownership group in sports. Sarver, Bidwills, whatever idiot is running the D'Backs nowadays and... no owner for the Coyotes.

Yeah, what a brilliant bunch. Ever wondered why Phoenix fans have such a short attention span?

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06-27-2011, 11:44 PM
  #85
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Originally Posted by Melrose Munch View Post
Spot on.

Listen XX, this is not just about the Yotes. This is Phoenix once again showing they are an apathetic market. You show up good or bad, not just when they win. Look at the Cards when they didn't win, they didn't draw either. Or the Backs, and they where good. Losing the Yotes is one thing, but this attitude of "we have better stuff to than to watch losing teams" has to stop or Phoenix will lose these teams drop off the map. Phoenix will cease to be a major city.
I have to disagree. This isn't a market where we will support a losing team. I'm a die hard fan, but this ownership debacle has kept me away from the team. The only reason I go to games is if someone else pays for my ticket. I refuse to give the city of Glendale and the NHL (not the Coyotes) money. I cancelled my center ice, and haven't even bothered looking at the new schedule because, I really don't give a **** any more. Don't plan on picking up NHL 12.

Am I less of a fan because I don't show up when we lose or when the team is about to leave? I don't think so. I still think I'm as good of a fan as the next guy. Winnipeg sold out their stadium before they departed, and it didn't keep the team there.

Its written on the wall that this team is facing doom. We can't sign free agents, we don't have stability and in turn, we can't keep fans.

I will root for this team until the 11th hour. Once we are no more, my fandom towards the NHL is no more.


Anyways on topic, I can't blame Hulsizer for leaving. This mess has ruined the organization and it is not worth 170 million, 140 million, hell even 110 million. If this goes on, by the end of this season you could probably buy the team for a pack of skittles and $85.

No way my team lives past next season. And I went from being one of the most optimistic fans of getting the deal done to this.

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06-27-2011, 11:50 PM
  #86
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Originally Posted by XX View Post
I never said otherwise, but don't preach to me about showing up good or bad. This isn't Toronto or the Cubs. There's a certain expectation that the team have some sort of plan and not a total joke of a team. It's called entertainment. That's what sports are for. There was nothing entertaining about Wayne's World (The Gretzky era) and thus the team brutalized their chance to capitalize on a new building.

I have better **** to do than to go watch a lottery team in person, much less pay money to go see it. I still follow the team religiously, just not financially. That's to be expected. Few cities can tolerate a total joke of an organization.

And somehow I'm a lesser fan because I don't spend money on an organization that had zero plan and the worst case of nepotism probably in the history of sports? Whatever. I'd hate to be a 'true fan' then. Seems more in line with being a sheep or total sucker than an objective human being.
I think what you need in most markets is to sell hope. If you need to rely on winning it is not a good basis for a pro sports franchise as 1/2 of the franchise in any league will be in the bottom half of the standings at any given time. There may not be sufficient interest in the sport if people only show up in the good/great times.

I personally would very much enjoy, for example, watching an NHL team rebuild for several years. It's exciting to watch the young players develop. It fun to watch the stars from other teams come to your home arena or to play your team. I can have a good night out watching a hard fought game, where my team is the underdog and loses.

The other thing is ticket prices. If they are too low it is difficult for a franchise to support the necessary payroll for a winning team. A circle of failure results.

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06-27-2011, 11:50 PM
  #87
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Minor Nit ...

This is actually Phoenix XXXVIII: ...

In the Beginning, ...

12-08-2008 Hockey in The Desert (Phoenix franchise and finance/business matters)
02-04-2009 Hockey in the Desert II (Phoenix Coyotes franchise and business matters)

05-05-2009 Balsillie puts in $212.5 mil offer for the Coyotes
05-07-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part II
05-18-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part III
05-22-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part IV
06-03-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix part V
06-09-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VI
06-12-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VII: I'm just waitin' on a judge
06-16-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part VIII: It's dead, Jim
06-24-2009 Balsillie/Phoenix Part IX: 'Dorf on Hockey
07-25-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part X: The Truth? You Can't Handle The Truth!
08-03-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XI: A Fistful of Dollars?
08-07-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XII: For a Few Dollars More
08-12-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XIII: The Good, The Bad, and The Ugly
08-21-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XIV: The Wrath of Baum
08-27-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XV - SITREP: SNAFU
09-02-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVI: Barbarian at the Gate
09-08-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVII: Wake Me Up When September Ends
09-10-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy/ownership Part XVIII: Is that a pale horse in the distance?
09-12-2009 Phoenix bankruptcy Part XIX: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Baum
09-21-2009 Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XX: There Will Be Baum
09-28-2009 Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XXI: 2009 -- A Sports Odyssey
10-26-2009 Phoenix Bankruptcy Part XXII: Long and winding road

11-24-2009 Keeping up with potential owners for NHL Phoenix Coyotes (UPD: Ice Edge signs LOI)
03-14-2010 Part II. Potential owners of NHL's Phoenix Coyotes
03-26-2010 Part III. Prospective Owners - Phoenix Coyotes (UPD Lease vote 4/13; IEH signs MOU)
04-10-2010 Part IV Phoenix Coyotes post bankrtuptcy; UPD COG approves Reinsdorf MOU, not IEH MOU
05-02-2010 Part V Phoenix Coyotes post bankruptcy UPD Reinsdorf out? IEH back in? else Winnipeg?
05-11-2010 Part VI Phoenix Coyotes post bankruptcy
05-23-2010 Part VII Phoenix Coyotes post bankrtuptcy
06-07-2010 Part VIII: Phoenix Coyotes Post-bankrtuptcy
06-22-2010 Part IX: Phoenix Coyotes Post-bankruptcy UPD: Pres Moss fired 6/30 with IEH input
07-26-2010 Part X: Phoenix Coyotes - Between Scylla and Charybdis
08-27-2010 Part XI: Phoenix Coyotes -- Greetings, Starfighter, You have been selected ...
09-16-2010 Part XII: Phx Coyotes - Still haven't found what I'm looking for
10-12-2010 Part XIII: Phoenix Coyotes - The Final Cut?
10-27-2010 Part XIV: Phoenix Coyotes - To Infinity And Beyond....
12-05-2010 Part XV: Phoenix - the battle of evermore
12-14-2010 Part XVI: Phoenix -- Money for Nothing
12-20-2010 Part XVII: Phoenix -- Thread Title Available For Lease
01-09-2011 Part XVIII: Phoenix -- Imminence Front
01-24-2011 Phoenix XIXth: Nervous Breakdown
02-02-2011 Phoenix XX: Two weeks
02-11-2011 Phoenix XXI: When will then be now?
02-22-2011 Phoenix XXII: It's Now or Never
02-28-2011 Phoenix XXIII - Bond: The Phoenix Project
03-03-2011 Phoenix XXIV: How many twists does the scriptwriter have left?
03-07-2011 Phoenix XXV: Anyone in the theatre seen a pale horse?
03-08-2011 Phoenix XXVI: Pain in the AZ
03-11-2011 Phoenix XXVII: Can we all get along?
03-16-2011 Phoenix XXVIII: Lawyers, Bonds and Money
03-20-2011 Phoenix XXIX: What's the next act? I'm tired of the dog & pony show
03-22-2011 Phoenix Part XXX Hulz, you gotta get a gimmick if you want to get ahead
03-27-2011 Phoenix Part XXXI: I feel I'm in a time loop
04-05-2011 Phoenix Part XXXII: Bridge over Troubled Goldwater
04-14-2011 Phoenix XXXIII: Sound of Silence
04-20-2011 Phoenix XXXIV: Project Mayhem
04-25-2011 Phoenix XXXV: Several Species of Small Furry Animals Gathered Together in a Cave...
05-03-2011 Phoenix XXXVI - There's got to be a morning after
05-10-2011 Phoenix XXXVII - The Heat is On

Followed by the Interregnum between Kings Phoenix the XXXVII-th and Phoenix the XXXVIII-th:

[PYTHON]
The most interesting thing about King Charles, the first
Is that he was 5 foot 6 inches tall at the start of his reign
But only 4 foot 8 inches tall at the end of it because of
Oliver Cromwell, Lord Protector of England Puritan
Born in 1599 and died in 1658 September
[/PYTHON]

06-09-2011 ESPN's Burnside: Hulsizer submitted new deal; COG city manager dragging it out
06-20-2011 Coyotes related: Westgate faces foreclosure
06-21-2011 Phoenix, worst case scenario


Finally, the realm was restored ...

06-27-2011 Phoenix XXXVIII: Hulsizer Pulls Bid For Coyotes

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06-27-2011, 11:52 PM
  #88
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I have to disagree. This isn't a market where we will support a losing team. I'm a die hard fan, but this ownership debacle has kept me away from the team. The only reason I go to games is if someone else pays for my ticket. I refuse to give the city of Glendale and the NHL (not the Coyotes) money. I cancelled my center ice, and haven't even bothered looking at the new schedule because, I really don't give a **** any more. Don't plan on picking up NHL 12.

Am I less of a fan because I don't show up when we lose or when the team is about to leave? I don't think so. I still think I'm as good of a fan as the next guy. Winnipeg sold out their stadium before they departed, and it didn't keep the team there.

Its written on the wall that this team is facing doom. We can't sign free agents, we don't have stability and in turn, we can't keep fans.

I will root for this team until the 11th hour. Once we are no more, my fandom towards the NHL is no more.


Anyways on topic, I can't blame Hulsizer for leaving. This mess has ruined the organization and it is not worth 170 million, 140 million, hell even 110 million. If this goes on, by the end of this season you could probably buy the team for a pack of skittles and $85.

No way my team lives past next season. And I went from being one of the most optimistic fans of getting the deal done to this.
Don't get me wrong. I am not one of those Hockey in Canada only guys. I just think is pro sports problem and not a hockey problem. I just feel some of these cities who have pro sports (like Phoenix take it for granted especially with the NFL Cards, etc. Hockey is symptom, not the issue.

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06-27-2011, 11:53 PM
  #89
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Don't get me wrong. I am not one of those Hockey in Canada only guys. I just think is pro sports problem and not a hockey problem. I just feel some of these cities who have pro sports (like Phoenix take it for granted especially with the NFL Cards, etc. Hockey is symptom, not the issue.

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06-28-2011, 12:26 AM
  #90
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I think the NHL. might not have any other choice but sell the coyotes to Jim Balsille because it is my opinion that the NHL. wants to get this dead weight in which I mean the coyotes off there hands as fast as possible & if Balsilles offer still stands this deal can be done quick & easy . As for mlse. & the Sabres well they will get say between 25 - 50 million each as a pay off so goodbye Phoenix hello Hamilton .

RIP. Phoenix Coyotes 1996 - 2012

Hamilton Tigers 1920 - 1925 - reborn 2012

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06-28-2011, 12:31 AM
  #91
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I would doubt that the NHL wants Balsillie, or that Balsillie wants the NHL.

I think he will watch with interest to see just how much someone else will eventually pay for the team.

It might be the best deal he never made.
JB will never own an NHL team. Never.

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06-28-2011, 12:34 AM
  #92
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I raise my glass in a toast to my embattled friends....
Nice post twofour, and yep, fondly do I remember the time I took in a hockey game in the old Winnipeg Arena on Maroons Road. 30,000 eyeballs and about 13 complete sets of teeth amongst the spectators. I thought I was at a Clarke Family Reunion. They'd all come down from Flin Flon to see Bobby play or somethin.

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I think what you need in most markets is to sell hope.
Of course but you have to be realistic, objective, practicable, savvy, No point in living delusionally with false hope or buying into a faulty ideal. The world is full of Merchants of False Hope.


Last edited by Killion: 06-28-2011 at 12:39 AM.
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06-28-2011, 12:43 AM
  #93
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JB will never own an NHL team. Never.
Agreed. I don't buy the 'Balsille needs to wait in the shadows for a while and just be a good boy' line we got recently, there's no way this guy will ever own an NHL team.

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06-28-2011, 12:55 AM
  #94
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I take that the sale is still imminent!

(I like that word. Until the Coyotes were on the block though I thought it meant something completely different.)


Me too!

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06-28-2011, 01:08 AM
  #95
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I think the NHL. might not have any other choice but sell the coyotes to Jim Balsille because it is my opinion that the NHL. wants to get this dead weight in which I mean the coyotes off there hands as fast as possible & if Balsilles offer still stands this deal can be done quick & easy . As for mlse. & the Sabres well they will get say between 25 - 50 million each as a pay off so goodbye Phoenix hello Hamilton .

RIP. Phoenix Coyotes 1996 - 2012

Hamilton Tigers 1920 - 1925 - reborn 2012
Jim Balsillie is no longer as rich as he used to be and his company's stock and future is currently in a tailspin.

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06-28-2011, 01:18 AM
  #96
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Agree. The league didnt want any distractions through the playoffs, got one anyway with Atlanta-Winnipeg, whereas here they could control the message somewhat, though the Westgate Foreclosure mustve' played into all of this and has clearly set everyone back on their heels yet again.

A Moon Shot. Unless the Bidwells get involved along with some really heavy hitters including Reinsdorf in a purchase that includes the mall etc I just dont see how this gets done. Do you suppose the "Mystery Group" is the Tohono's Band Whileee?. Bid on Westgate & approach the NHL?.
I do wonder what prompted Hulsizer to pull out just now. Was it because of the Westgate foreclosure? Perhaps he sees that as creating a protracted complication for any future negotiations. Or perhaps there is a new prospective owner in town and he doesn't have any interest in a bidding war on terms with another ownership group. I have no idea what the Tohono's Band might be up to, or whether they might be a legitimate group. I think that the deal needs one or more of three things: 1) a greatly reduced purchase price (hello NHL); 2) a substantial stream of ancillary revenue (beyond parking -- a casino might come in handy); 3) some reasonable "out" clause that permits relocation and recouping investment if the team continues to lose wads of money.

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06-28-2011, 01:22 AM
  #97
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I see the narrative here. Atlanta doesn't deserve an NHL team because they wouldn't show up for a poorly ran hockey club owned by hockey-hating owners, and Phoenix doesn't deserve one because they won't turn out for a lame duck franchise that doesn't even have an owner. It is always the fans fault, no matter what else is going on. I guess it is soda drinkers' fault that New Coke failed, not the Coca Cola company's fault for coming up with a bad product.

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06-28-2011, 01:26 AM
  #98
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Phoenix is toast. Honestly in the winter there are 10's of thousands of Canucks in the city and I bet there are between 2-3 thousand at the games. Phoenix and hockey don't mix!

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06-28-2011, 01:29 AM
  #99
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tekneek View Post
I see the narrative here. Atlanta doesn't deserve an NHL team because they wouldn't show up for a poorly ran hockey club owned by hockey-hating owners, and Phoenix doesn't deserve one because they won't turn out for a lame duck franchise that doesn't even have an owner. It is always the fans fault, no matter what else is going on. I guess it is soda drinkers' fault that New Coke failed, not the Coca Cola company's fault for coming up with a bad product.
It's not the fans fault. The true fans that go are great. There just aren't enough. Phoenix is as hot as the sun, it's not a HOCKEY town. No one cares.

sbaggio is offline  
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06-28-2011, 01:42 AM
  #100
Ward Cornell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by C77 View Post
I just can't believe there is going to be another entire year of twisting in the wind for Coyotes fans.

Without a buyer, the attendance will probably be terrible which, in addition to the negative press, will just make it less attractive to a prospective buyer.

This looks hopeless.
This soap opera has garnered so much press and chatter that no one would even consider dropping $5 on a ticket let alone to buy the team.

Once an item or good has a stigma attached any potential investor runs away as fast as they can. There is absolutely no curb appeal left to attract anyone.

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