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Je suis… Senator?!?

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Old
06-27-2011, 11:52 PM
  #26
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Originally Posted by Teufelsdreck View Post
You must have been sucking on a particularly sour lemon when you unburdened youself.
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Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Do you write anything good about management?..Just curious.

Typical habsterix management bashing post. Nothing new here.


I guess when faced with the truth and running out of arguments, one must resort to that kind of comments, right? It's okay, you're entitled to disagree. I love you both anyway.

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06-28-2011, 12:17 AM
  #27
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that picture made me throw up

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Old
06-28-2011, 12:21 AM
  #28
Kriss E
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post


I guess when faced with the truth and running out of arguments, one must resort to that kind of comments, right? It's okay, you're entitled to disagree. I love you both anyway.
Yes, of course I'm mad. I didn't want to get into it because this has been your position on management for a number of years. You're still very nostalgic over the old days, you bring them up at every opportunity when mentioning management. So, I feel it is utterly pointless to discuss this with you as your opinion is never going to change.

You say you call it the way you see it, but you can't even realize that you look at things from a pessimistic and negative way.

You criticize Gauthier for losing the 2nd rounder he gave up for Moore, and then losing him. But you don't even give him credit for going after Moore in the first place. He did not want to ink Moore for 2years, and so replaced him with a very cheap Halpern that ended up being a very suiting replacement. But hey, why mention that, we lost a damn 2nd round pick for someone that helped us a lot..Wait, we then lost that guy, so...ahhh what to think!! Let's just blame Gauthier.

You fail to give him credit for making moves throughout the season to adapt after injuries, like getting Sopel, Mara and Wiz. Instead you rather criticize him for the picks he lost in the process.
You point out that D'Agostini had a good year in St-Louis while Palushaj is doing good in Hamilton, as if it actually made that trade a bad one. Ya, Palushaj is doing well in Hamilton, he's only 21 and just finished a 57pt 68gp season with a 19pts in 19gp PO run. He could very well get called up throughout this season and see more ice time in the NHL. What's wrong with all that exactly?? Nothing is really wrong here, but D'Ago scored 21G in the NHL last year so there's obviously no point in waiting for Palushaj to show what he'll be capable of doing at 24 in the NHL. It was clearly a bad trade....: Did I also mention that St-Louis didn't qualify D'Ago?

Is Eller and Schultz a good enough return for Halak??? For Habsterix, the neutral, rational and observant man, of course not. I mean, it's not like the compensation for a RFA via offersheet for a player signed to Halak money would have been a 1st and a 3rd...Oh wait, yes it was. Eller and Schultz were not 1st and 3rd rounders?? I guess you forgot to think about that in your superb research because you were too busy just looking at the names exchanged.
And obviously, you forget to mention how Gauthier opted to keep Price instead of Halak. No, that's not worth talking about because it would require you actually giving management some Props. Nope, let's not do that. Let's just speculate, and question the fact we could have had more even though there's absolutely no example, none whatsoever, of goalkeepers being traded for better value. Matter of fact, Halak might be the keeper to have brought back the best return in recent years. Are you even aware of what Bryzgalov got the Yotes??? We're talking about a proven starter, that has maintained .920 Sv% over just under 70games on average teams for more than one year, and also stepped up in POs. I'll let you look it up since you seem to enjoy researching.

As for Boucher. If you respected Martin/Gauthier anywhere close to Boucher/Yzerman, you would be giving them credit instead of crapping on their every move. You absolutely praise TB for their success in the season and in the POs but fail to recognize their success in the POs was highly dependent of Roloson and St-Louis, very much like we counted on Halak and Cammy (maybe they had a little more contribution up front but they are an all out offensive team). They also got eliminated once Rollie came back to earth, like Halak did, but thanks to their better depth, they were able to last a bit longer. You praise Boucher for the jump in their regular season, but hey, it's not like they had Stamkos, Vinny, St-Louis, Hedman and Malone. They finished in the bottom 10 for GA, and actually had a worst ES GF/GA ratio than us despite us having three of our top 5 go through career lows, not having a top 6 most of the year and missing two key Dmen. Obviously, again, that would require you to give praise to Martin, but we all know you're incapable of that so you won't even dare giving him an ounce of merit, you'll give it to Price and Subban instead. In TB they have three bonafide superstars and they got through it thanks to them, but let's give credit to Boucher/Yzerman and forget to even mentioning their names.
Of course, C.Desjardins also needs to be brought up. I mean with his amazing contribution and all in TB, it really is a pity.

Yes, Habsterix, it really doesn't appear that you're holding a double standard here...

And while we're at it, might as well criticize management for losing the biggest key to our PP, Kirk Muller.. Yup, I seriously think we will drop down to the bottom part of the league now. Btw, didn't we struggled for a major part of the start of the season with our PP??..And weren't we part of the best PP teams the year before Muller joined??

Obviously, you can't see any good from management. I'm not mad, I don't really care, it's not like you're a new poster here so I knew this already. Pretty much why I kept my first post short and sweet . What I find funny however is that you actually seem to think your opinion is neutral and poised while other fans are overly optimistic.

There are very few rational posters on this board, and I hate to break it to you Habsterix, but you're not one of them.


Last edited by Kriss E: 06-28-2011 at 01:32 AM.
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Old
06-28-2011, 12:46 AM
  #29
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Pretty much what I thought... Except I can't formulate a sentence well enough to express it

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06-28-2011, 12:47 AM
  #30
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I'm about to get off on a huge rant here... but this blog just struck me the wrong way.

It's so easy to sit back and use imperfect analysis to lambast any sports team. It's especially and cherry pick rental trades which were made to fill short term needs and lament the loss of longer term assets spent to make those short term gains.

Let's use Moore for example:

When this deal was first made, the initial outrage was that it was too high of a price to pay for a player of Moore's caliber. Moore performed very well in his depth role and helped the team reach an unexpected amount of success that year. You'd figure that the criticism would fade...

Nope, the goalposts just get moved to continue the criticism. Even though the Moore deal was a rental deal that successfully met a short term need, the focus becomes "losing Moore for nothing". Fans start to think that the Habs have to sign Moore, otherwise that 2nd round pick wouldn't be merited if he became a longer term player for the Habs. He ends up signing for the Lighting and somehow people start chalking that deal up as an overpayment and one that was lost in hindsight.

Even though signing Moore as a free agent has no bearing on the original deal, it now gets rolled into analysis of the trade. The fact that a guy like Moore is replaceable at a lower cost (as we saw with Halpern this year) doesn't matter in this analysis. All that matters is a free agent who was acquired as a rental was lost.

Another example is the Wisniewski deal:


Markov's injury drastically impacted this team. Subban was going through some consistency issues and PG acquires Wiz for a 2nd and a conditional 5th rounder in 2012. The condition on the 5th round pick was that Wiz had to play in 50% of the Habs games and that the Habs make the playoffs, which tends to give a sense of the perspective with which the Habs viewed this deal as a short-term one to shore up the defense.

Wisniewski stays healthy, continues his fine year and helps the Habs make the playoffs. Hell, he ends up being one of the better rental acquisitions made this year (certainly a lot more beneficial than Chia's acquisition of Kaberle at a later date and a much higher price). Mission accomplished as far as the trade is concerned, right? I mean, a pick of moderate value (2nd) and a pick of little value (5th) seems like a fair price for half a season plus the playoffs of Wiz's impact this year, right?

Nope. Now we'll move the goalposts again and assess the deal based strictly on whether or not Wisniewski re-signs. Even though this completely ignores the context and actual exchange of value that the trade was based on, people will use this to determine whether or not it was a good deal.

Assessing short term deals based on free agency is illogical, but it doesn't end there:

- Criticizing PG for not qualifying Pouliot, but ignoring that D'agostini wasn't qualified is selective analysis at best.
- Lamenting the Desjardins/Ramo deal because Ramo is in Russia while completely ignoring the fact that Desjardins could very well find himself owned by another team as he is a UFA on July 1st and currently injured is once again another extremely selective take on things.
- Max Lapierre was good enough for depth duties on the Canucks, but wasn't good enough to stick with the Ducks (once again, ignored).
- The absurd complaint about losing an AHL coach, a capologist and an assistant coach "for nothing". Should the Habs have fought tooth and nail to have the league change the rules about compensation for coach/management transfers?

I'm not "stretching" to justify these moves at all. I just think it's fair to analyze trades within their context, rather than offering a limited take on them to make harsh criticism easier.

The most significant irony is that the blog is trying to make the connection between the great legacy of this franchise that is being stripped away as the process of "Senatorfication" (that's what I'll call it), takes place. The complicit implication is that us as fans of such a great franchise don't deserve to be shortchanged in this way (I mean, we do drink $10 beers and buy jerseys). I don't buy that at all. In fact, I think that some fans of this great franchise symbolically owe a little bit more to the team.

Maybe some of us should step down from our historical pedestal as fans and try to view the transactions that occur over time with an understanding as to why they were made at the time? Maybe we should try and recognize our self-annointed designation of being an knowledgeable fanbase and at least look at the whole picture, before spitting on the frame of it? Maybe we should get rid of our sense of entitlement and stop thinking that the current GM has to rob other GMs in every single transaction he makes. Maybe we should also realize that management in this era of the league is much different than it used to be and every team, every single team is impacted by free agency, the rental market and salary implications, no matter how ingenious we think their front office is.

Maybe then, we will realize that things aren't as terrible as a few poorly selected and misrepresented arguments might make them seem. Maybe then, we might deserve better.


Last edited by LyleOdelein: 06-28-2011 at 12:56 AM. Reason: added a "that" in the 3rd last paragraph (like anyone will notice)
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Old
06-28-2011, 12:51 AM
  #31
dynastyREredux
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Many of the organizational, Senator-like changes that you whine about were orchestrated by one of the ex Habs you seem upset about losing (and always supported on the old official Habs forum) in Gainey. Gainey brought Gauthier to the organization in the first place and paved the way for him to replace him as GM and Gainey is the one who hired Mr. Martin.

Many of the points are pretty irrelevant. Like calling losing Maxwell, a 4th, Dawes and Sopel a 4 player swing? It's still a 2 player swing, we never would have had all 4 assets unless we received the latter 2 for free. So we are only truly 2 assets lighter than where we were. Anyway, Maxwell and a 4th are reasonably worthless and Sopel helped get into the playoffs/push the Cup Champions to 7. The relative value of rentals is an argument worth having but Gainey was significantly worse at mismanaging picks in the later years than Gauthier has been.

I mean I'm not going to defend all of Gauthier moves, I'm not even a terribly big fan but you're clearly going out of your way to be negative and hide behind "calling it like you see it." You complain about Gauthier trading Latendresse for Pouliot, than letting Pouliot go for nothing which is fair. Then you complain about trading D'ags for Palushaj (who is still a legitimate prospect and asset) when St. Louis just did the same thing to D'ags that we did to Pouliot, didn't see fit to qualify him.

The Ramo deal was a worthwhile risk. We acquired him at a time when there was some reasonable doubt about where Carey would tread, knowing full well he'd only come over if given a chance at the starter's job. We take a chance on a kid who, if all goes wrong COULD be a potential starter in this league for someone you liberally call a "prospect". Desjardins is on the verge of turning 26, has played 2 NHL games and even when Tampa's goaltending was painfully dreadful last year they seemed relatively uninterested in calling him up. His AHL stats this year were mediocre.

Is Eller enough for Halak? I suppose we'll have to wait and see. I like Eller's game and potential a fair bit, to be honest and Halak got a reasonably large contract and probably under performed this year. In fact, Gauthier deserves credit for making the bold and at the time relatively unpopular move in moving Halak and keeping Carey.

Hiring Boucher to coach in the AHL was a good decision by management. Losing him was just the way it goes, I suppose. Montreal is a tough place to break in as a coach, maybe it's best to avoid hiring guys with 1 year of pro experience. I'm reasonably sick of being a breading ground for rookie coaches to cut their teeth. We'll see what happens going forward. Tampa was a horrible defensive team this year. I mean for all their greatness and our awfulness, they had the exact same goal differential as us.

As for Muller being the reason our PP has been so good, it's a stretch. Jarvis was given a lot of the credit while he was here and I'm pretty sure he ran the PP for most of the Carbo years. We'll see how it goes this year but I'm quite unconcerned.

Gainey and Muller chose to leave. I'm not sure what could have been done to prevent Muller going? Give him the head coaching spot? Carbo was fired by Gainey (he was a pretty pitiful coach.)

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Old
06-28-2011, 01:07 AM
  #32
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that's not the sens logo...

THIS IS:


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Old
06-28-2011, 01:26 AM
  #33
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We fail to recognize that a few of those player transactions were somewhat forced because of unexpected injuries. You end up trading picks for players that carry you through the season and give you a chance to make the playoffs. When the original players return (e.g Markov and Gorges), you can't re-sign everyone for next season. Someone like Wizniewski may have to go.
There were other transactions to make a playoff run....like the acquisition of Dominic Moore. Let's face it, he was a rental for that great playoff run. Teams make draft day acquisitions of rental players all the time for payoff runs, and can't re-sign them at season's end.
Generally, these transactions get criticized when they are made (too many assets given up) and when players are allowed to walk it brings on more criticism. I guess it's just fan nature to want to criticize. All I know is that I watched this team go through the dark ages in the 90's. When the Leafs are looking better than your team it sucks following your team throughout the season. The team has rebounded in the last few years to the point where I can be proud of the effort they put on the ice. I walked away proud of their run two years ago, and even their effort in the first round last year despite being physically pounded.
I think management realizes they need a bit more muscle and they will evolve in philosophy to bring some in. I have confidence in them. Although I may not agree with every transaction, I'm far from throwing a blanket of criticism over all transactions made in the last few years.

As for the coaches that have left, you can only have so many coaches. This organization has given opportunities to some of them to hone their skills and has the class to step aside and let them seek positions elsewhere when opportunities arise. Could we have made Muller and Boucher coach at the same time....no....and you won't do it with Martin still under contract and seeing success with the team.


Last edited by Physical HABuse: 06-28-2011 at 01:59 AM.
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Old
06-28-2011, 01:54 AM
  #34
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The downfall of blogging and new media demonstrated in a thread: A blogger forms his opinion out of facts limited to one side of the story and tries to pass it as objective and fair opinion. Some level-headed posters call him out on his 'fairness' and he answers with childish, "u-mad" posts where he declares that the sheep just follow the herd and are scared of the real content of the dark woods out there because some 'wise man' warned them about it. At the end of the story, the dark woods end up being a nice little forest with unicorns and friendly bears chomping on honey. Nothing to be scared of, but hey, it's all about the tone of the warning, not its accuracy.

It's funny, but listening to most media outlets here, I have the impression that you're the sheep following the herd, Asterix. "Management this, management that, my amateur point of view far outweighs their professional insight bla bla bla." That's all we get here, armchair GM's who believe that their way would be the best, who believe that everything is as easy as it is pulling off trades and signings in NHL 11. Sometimes, you can't entirely judge a trade on what you got/what you lost. It's too easy to say, "hey, we traded such and such for such and such and two years later, nobody's here." You have to take in consideration the contribution, or non-contribution of the players while they were with the club. Sometimes, you can't hold people against their will and you have to accept and, *gulp*, be happy for their professional advancement whether it be inside or outside the company you support. You gotta understand that in a world of guaranteed contracts, you cannot fire Jacques Martin just because Guy Boucher or Kirk Muller is waiting behind him. Yet, you cannot restrain them to second-string jobs while they are clearly ready to lead the pack.

I guess it's just easier to find flaws and criticize them than to actually completely analyze a situation. So keep having your fun on your blog, trying to expose the "real truth" to these ignorant masses who are so wrong because they don't see the situation the way you do. One day, you'll realize you aren't any better than those fools who are sheep to the Habs. That day, you might have a future in sports writing but until then, you'll remain a HFBoards poster who turns forum-fodder to blog posts.


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Old
06-28-2011, 02:40 AM
  #35
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Originally Posted by Habsterix View Post

The Montreal Canadiens have made several changed in the last couple of years on the management side of things. Out are former Canadiens Guy Carbonneau, Bob Gainey and now Kirk Muller. In are former Senators Pierre Gauthier, Jacques Martin and Randy Conneyworth. So much for Habs tradition I guess.

But it’s the decisions made by this new management that catch the attention above all. While being dominated at just about every level on the ice, the Canadiens rode the tail of a hot goaltender (Halak) two years ago to give the impression that the team was heading in the right direction. Many fans bought into the idea and gave the Gauthier/Martin duo a blind vote of confidence. This past season, young superstars to be Carey Price and PK Subban made their coach and GM look good once again as without their amazing contribution, especially Molson Cup winner Price, the team would have been excluded from the playoffs.

The scariest thing about it is that the GM’s and coach’s track records aren’t very positive. Many players had a terrible season offensively. Many others have been given away, players who, under smothering coaching and unfair treatment towards young talented players, have found their niche and success elsewhere. Let’s look at it a bit closer if we may…
  • Gone are Ben Maxwell and a 4th round pick, and so are the two players we got in return: Nigel Dawes and Brent Sopel. That’s a four player swing!
  • ...

Read more: Je suis... Senator?!?


Sorry but i'm not buying what you're selling here . You lose all credibility when you write out of context and speak half truths just to bash Martin and Gauthier .

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Old
06-28-2011, 02:42 AM
  #36
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I'd like to thank all the people who pointed out the flaws in Asterix's logic. Not only was it great to read but also, it will spare me to do it.

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Old
06-28-2011, 04:03 AM
  #37
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Yes, of course I'm mad. I didn't want to get into it because this has been your position on management for a number of years. You're still very nostalgic over the old days, you bring them up at every opportunity when mentioning management. So, I feel it is utterly pointless to discuss this with you as your opinion is never going to change.

You say you call it the way you see it, but you can't even realize that you look at things from a pessimistic and negative way.

You criticize Gauthier for losing the 2nd rounder he gave up for Moore, and then losing him. But you don't even give him credit for going after Moore in the first place. He did not want to ink Moore for 2years, and so replaced him with a very cheap Halpern that ended up being a very suiting replacement. But hey, why mention that, we lost a damn 2nd round pick for someone that helped us a lot..Wait, we then lost that guy, so...ahhh what to think!! Let's just blame Gauthier.

You fail to give him credit for making moves throughout the season to adapt after injuries, like getting Sopel, Mara and Wiz. Instead you rather criticize him for the picks he lost in the process.
You point out that D'Agostini had a good year in St-Louis while Palushaj is doing good in Hamilton, as if it actually made that trade a bad one. Ya, Palushaj is doing well in Hamilton, he's only 21 and just finished a 57pt 68gp season with a 19pts in 19gp PO run. He could very well get called up throughout this season and see more ice time in the NHL. What's wrong with all that exactly?? Nothing is really wrong here, but D'Ago scored 21G in the NHL last year so there's obviously no point in waiting for Palushaj to show what he'll be capable of doing at 24 in the NHL. It was clearly a bad trade....: Did I also mention that St-Louis didn't qualify D'Ago?

Is Eller and Schultz a good enough return for Halak??? For Habsterix, the neutral, rational and observant man, of course not. I mean, it's not like the compensation for a RFA via offersheet for a player signed to Halak money would have been a 1st and a 3rd...Oh wait, yes it was. Eller and Schultz were not 1st and 3rd rounders?? I guess you forgot to think about that in your superb research because you were too busy just looking at the names exchanged.
And obviously, you forget to mention how Gauthier opted to keep Price instead of Halak. No, that's not worth talking about because it would require you actually giving management some Props. Nope, let's not do that. Let's just speculate, and question the fact we could have had more even though there's absolutely no example, none whatsoever, of goalkeepers being traded for better value. Matter of fact, Halak might be the keeper to have brought back the best return in recent years. Are you even aware of what Bryzgalov got the Yotes??? We're talking about a proven starter, that has maintained .920 Sv% over just under 70games on average teams for more than one year, and also stepped up in POs. I'll let you look it up since you seem to enjoy researching.

As for Boucher. If you respected Martin/Gauthier anywhere close to Boucher/Yzerman, you would be giving them credit instead of crapping on their every move. You absolutely praise TB for their success in the season and in the POs but fail to recognize their success in the POs was highly dependent of Roloson and St-Louis, very much like we counted on Halak and Cammy (maybe they had a little more contribution up front but they are an all out offensive team). They also got eliminated once Rollie came back to earth, like Halak did, but thanks to their better depth, they were able to last a bit longer. You praise Boucher for the jump in their regular season, but hey, it's not like they had Stamkos, Vinny, St-Louis, Hedman and Malone. They finished in the bottom 10 for GA, and actually had a worst ES GF/GA ratio than us despite us having three of our top 5 go through career lows, not having a top 6 most of the year and missing two key Dmen. Obviously, again, that would require you to give praise to Martin, but we all know you're incapable of that so you won't even dare giving him an ounce of merit, you'll give it to Price and Subban instead. In TB they have three bonafide superstars and they got through it thanks to them, but let's give credit to Boucher/Yzerman and forget to even mentioning their names.
Of course, C.Desjardins also needs to be brought up. I mean with his amazing contribution and all in TB, it really is a pity.

Yes, Habsterix, it really doesn't appear that you're holding a double standard here...

And while we're at it, might as well criticize management for losing the biggest key to our PP, Kirk Muller.. Yup, I seriously think we will drop down to the bottom part of the league now. Btw, didn't we struggled for a major part of the start of the season with our PP??..And weren't we part of the best PP teams the year before Muller joined??

Obviously, you can't see any good from management. I'm not mad, I don't really care, it's not like you're a new poster here so I knew this already. Pretty much why I kept my first post short and sweet . What I find funny however is that you actually seem to think your opinion is neutral and poised while other fans are overly optimistic.

There are very few rational posters on this board, and I hate to break it to you Habsterix, but you're not one of them.
This gets my vote for "Post of the Off-Season".

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06-28-2011, 05:53 AM
  #38
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But to be fair to Gauthier, July 1 is right around the corner.

Will he make this team tougher? If he does, then he understands hockey in 2011.

If he takes the route of soft team, then he is an abject failure to not understand the needs of this team.

Time will ultimately tell.
If he gets tough players do you think Martin will play them? Martin's pet peeve is people who play the body instead of the puck.

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Old
06-28-2011, 06:18 AM
  #39
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You imply that all those departed Habs were going balls-out great. They weren't. You imply that the Habs were doing better in the playoffs before Martin arrived. YouThey weren't. So how did the Habs get to scare the bejeebers out of the SC champs, taking them to 7 games in which 3 were decided in OT, despite the absence of key Habs who might have altered the outcome? Do you suffer from self-induced amnesia when you overlook the 2 goals and 1 assist of the great Latenesse [spelling intentional] in 23 games before he was traded? Or the disruptive antics of the lesser Kostitsyn or the futility of Maxwell or the reverse metamorphosis of the Magic Slovak into just a pretty good goaltender after he was traded to the Blues? Do you dislike the signing of (Y)Emelin at long last, which eluded Gauthier's predecessor? You must have been sucking on a particularly sour lemon when you unburdened youself.
you

yeah you

i like you

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Old
06-28-2011, 06:28 AM
  #40
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Originally Posted by MasterDecoy View Post
you

yeah you

i like you
And I like you MasterDecoy

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06-28-2011, 06:39 AM
  #41
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I was going to post about how much your logic fails, how you twist the facts to go merely bash the management, and how you move the goalposts constantly..

But then I saw the line ahead of me, and decided they would do much better than I. What these peole say ^^ very good posts for them!!!

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06-28-2011, 06:54 AM
  #42
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Nothing I haven't read before. I don't agree. Not all the trades were ones I agreed with, but you're still cherry picking/manipulating contexts to "prove" your point/paint your opinion in a better light.

As far as the complaint about Moore, Sopel and Wisniewski...couldn't this complaint be applied to any GM who goes and looks for rentals at the deadline or shortly before? And if so, isn't Gauthier NOT doing anything out of the ordinary? Or is every GM that trades for rentals and doesn't win the cup as dumb/incompetent as Gauthier?

Very selective in your arguments...which makes it hard to accept or even consider the message/point in them.

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06-28-2011, 07:10 AM
  #43
HabsSlappy
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I don't like how people feel like holding onto players regardless. Players and picks are like currency, you pay for something to get what you want. Do you keep everything for ever? NO! Sometimes you throw things in the garbage or give them to good will. Other times you keep things that are no longer useable and they just create clutter.

People on this board complain that we gave this pick or that player but then they praise Holmgren for having balls and dealing Richard and Carter. You can't have it both ways.

I see a team as an ever evolving group of guys and you tweak to find the right fit. So what if we used a second round pick for Dominic Moore. He served a purpose while we had him and then the Habs decided he wasn't worth the salary he would be asking for. You cut bait and sign someone else.

Did we get enough for Halak? Not this again.....I love Eller and I think he will be worth it in the end. And if you didn't notice, Halak didn't exactly lead the Blues to the promise land. Perhaps he benefited from a great defensive system just like Price did last season.

I have no problem giving up players for nothing if they are not working out. When I buy a stock and I lose money on it, I simply sell and forget about it. Buy something else and hopefully it makes up the difference. The trick is doing the homework to minimize the amount of times this happens.

Let's look at it a different way:

Halak or Price: I want Price hands down and see potential in Eller

Wisniewski: We were handcuffed with injuries and gave up a second rounder for half a season of Wis. He helped us get into the playoffs and made Mr. Molson about $6 million. I don't think management got in trouble over that.

Maxwell: Again because of injuries, Sopel helped take Nash out of the lineup when he wasn't ready for prime time. Maxwell wasn't going to crack the lineup any time soon.

SK: This one stings a little because we all saw the potential, but he was an entitled little ***** and didn't want to work for his ice time. That creates friction in the locker room and that is probably worse than what he brings on the ice.

Pouliot: One reclamation project for another. The kid has made skills but lacks drive. Sounds like Latendresse who came to camp our of shape and got injured for the whole season. Cut your losses.

I personally have no qualms about giving up players or picks to sparks things on your team. I love Gorges but I would rather see him traded for a 1st or 2nd rounder and then re-sign someone else who is as capable or more capable.

I think this team should do more "sell high" management and stop trying to keep players forever just because they are on the team. There are other fish in the sea.

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06-28-2011, 07:14 AM
  #44
Ozymandias
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Yeah, and our MVP only played about 25 % of those 188 games.

It's easy to put things out of context. It's easy to be simplistic and childish.

Management isn't perfect, never will be.


BTW Matt D'Agostini wasn't offered a QO. And assets are there to get traded, because Habs like any other team have a 50 player limit that they have to respect, and since they are the team that produces the most NHL talent and wind-up with too many young players to carry, so every year, it's the same thing, we get rid of the ones who aren't working well. Did he get the best he could for them, maybe, maybe not, but you weren't on the phones to hear any of it, so whether you'd be thumping your chest about any of it doesn't make any difference because you are ignorant of all the intricate details that make the GM job a human job, and not like some video game where it's all 1s and 2s and additions and substractions and where value for asset is easy and is about the only thing you have to worry about.


"oh oh I'm great 'I know how to manage assets better than a Pro GM!!'

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06-28-2011, 07:31 AM
  #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriss E View Post
Yes, of course I'm mad. I didn't want to get into it because this has been your position on management for a number of years. You're still very nostalgic over the old days, you bring them up at every opportunity when mentioning management. So, I feel it is utterly pointless to discuss this with you as your opinion is never going to change.

You say you call it the way you see it, but you can't even realize that you look at things from a pessimistic and negative way.

You criticize Gauthier for losing the 2nd rounder he gave up for Moore, and then losing him. But you don't even give him credit for going after Moore in the first place. He did not want to ink Moore for 2years, and so replaced him with a very cheap Halpern that ended up being a very suiting replacement. But hey, why mention that, we lost a damn 2nd round pick for someone that helped us a lot..Wait, we then lost that guy, so...ahhh what to think!! Let's just blame Gauthier.

You fail to give him credit for making moves throughout the season to adapt after injuries, like getting Sopel, Mara and Wiz. Instead you rather criticize him for the picks he lost in the process.
You point out that D'Agostini had a good year in St-Louis while Palushaj is doing good in Hamilton, as if it actually made that trade a bad one. Ya, Palushaj is doing well in Hamilton, he's only 21 and just finished a 57pt 68gp season with a 19pts in 19gp PO run. He could very well get called up throughout this season and see more ice time in the NHL. What's wrong with all that exactly?? Nothing is really wrong here, but D'Ago scored 21G in the NHL last year so there's obviously no point in waiting for Palushaj to show what he'll be capable of doing at 24 in the NHL. It was clearly a bad trade....: Did I also mention that St-Louis didn't qualify D'Ago?

Is Eller and Schultz a good enough return for Halak??? For Habsterix, the neutral, rational and observant man, of course not. I mean, it's not like the compensation for a RFA via offersheet for a player signed to Halak money would have been a 1st and a 3rd...Oh wait, yes it was. Eller and Schultz were not 1st and 3rd rounders?? I guess you forgot to think about that in your superb research because you were too busy just looking at the names exchanged.
And obviously, you forget to mention how Gauthier opted to keep Price instead of Halak. No, that's not worth talking about because it would require you actually giving management some Props. Nope, let's not do that. Let's just speculate, and question the fact we could have had more even though there's absolutely no example, none whatsoever, of goalkeepers being traded for better value. Matter of fact, Halak might be the keeper to have brought back the best return in recent years. Are you even aware of what Bryzgalov got the Yotes??? We're talking about a proven starter, that has maintained .920 Sv% over just under 70games on average teams for more than one year, and also stepped up in POs. I'll let you look it up since you seem to enjoy researching.

As for Boucher. If you respected Martin/Gauthier anywhere close to Boucher/Yzerman, you would be giving them credit instead of crapping on their every move. You absolutely praise TB for their success in the season and in the POs but fail to recognize their success in the POs was highly dependent of Roloson and St-Louis, very much like we counted on Halak and Cammy (maybe they had a little more contribution up front but they are an all out offensive team). They also got eliminated once Rollie came back to earth, like Halak did, but thanks to their better depth, they were able to last a bit longer. You praise Boucher for the jump in their regular season, but hey, it's not like they had Stamkos, Vinny, St-Louis, Hedman and Malone. They finished in the bottom 10 for GA, and actually had a worst ES GF/GA ratio than us despite us having three of our top 5 go through career lows, not having a top 6 most of the year and missing two key Dmen. Obviously, again, that would require you to give praise to Martin, but we all know you're incapable of that so you won't even dare giving him an ounce of merit, you'll give it to Price and Subban instead. In TB they have three bonafide superstars and they got through it thanks to them, but let's give credit to Boucher/Yzerman and forget to even mentioning their names.
Of course, C.Desjardins also needs to be brought up. I mean with his amazing contribution and all in TB, it really is a pity.

Yes, Habsterix, it really doesn't appear that you're holding a double standard here...

And while we're at it, might as well criticize management for losing the biggest key to our PP, Kirk Muller.. Yup, I seriously think we will drop down to the bottom part of the league now. Btw, didn't we struggled for a major part of the start of the season with our PP??..And weren't we part of the best PP teams the year before Muller joined??

Obviously, you can't see any good from management. I'm not mad, I don't really care, it's not like you're a new poster here so I knew this already. Pretty much why I kept my first post short and sweet . What I find funny however is that you actually seem to think your opinion is neutral and poised while other fans are overly optimistic.

There are very few rational posters on this board, and I hate to break it to you Habsterix, but you're not one of them.
ok... But the biggest question is...






Am I a rational poster???

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06-28-2011, 07:33 AM
  #46
J Sawyer
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I expected to walk into a hf thread....I got a novel

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06-28-2011, 07:40 AM
  #47
Ozymandias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Turtleneck Plek View Post
The downfall of blogging and new media demonstrated in a thread: A blogger forms his opinion out of facts limited to one side of the story and tries to pass it as objective and fair opinion. Some level-headed posters call him out on his 'fairness' and he answers with childish, "u-mad" posts where he declares that the sheep just follow the herd and are scared of the real content of the dark woods out there because some 'wise man' warned them about it. At the end of the story, the dark woods end up being a nice little forest with unicorns and friendly bears chomping on honey. Nothing to be scared of, but hey, it's all about the tone of the warning, not its accuracy.

It's funny, but listening to most media outlets here, I have the impression that you're the sheep following the herd, Asterix. "Management this, management that, my amateur point of view far outweighs their professional insight bla bla bla." That's all we get here, armchair GM's who believe that their way would be the best, who believe that everything is as easy as it is pulling off trades and signings in NHL 11. Sometimes, you can't entirely judge a trade on what you got/what you lost. It's too easy to say, "hey, we traded such and such for such and such and two years later, nobody's here." You have to take in consideration the contribution, or non-contribution of the players while they were with the club. Sometimes, you can't hold people against their will and you have to accept and, *gulp*, be happy for their professional advancement whether it be inside or outside the company you support. You gotta understand that in a world of guaranteed contracts, you cannot fire Jacques Martin just because Guy Boucher or Kirk Muller is waiting behind him. Yet, you cannot restrain them to second-string jobs while they are clearly ready to lead the pack.

I guess it's just easier to find flaws and criticize them than to actually completely analyze a situation. So keep having your fun on your blog, trying to expose the "real truth" to these ignorant masses who are so wrong because they don't see the situation the way you do. One day, you'll realize you aren't any better than those fools who are sheep to the Habs. That day, you might have a future in sports writing but until then, you'll remain a HFBoards poster who turns forum-fodder to blog posts.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

Props

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06-28-2011, 07:42 AM
  #48
Andy
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I'm just boggled by the fact that you think that a 2nd for Moore, a second for Wisniewski and Maxwell and a 4th for Sopel and Dawes are bad trades when you come on HF willing to trade the 17th overall pick and a chance to select Beaulieu for a top 9 forward in Troy Brouwer or a 1st and Tinordi for Penner(you were also willing to trade a 1st and Kostitsyn for Penner, which would have not only been a lateral move, but would have also been a loss considering we'd lose that first for a very inconsistent player).

I find this pretty funny.

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06-28-2011, 07:44 AM
  #49
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Let's forget the past and focus on what the management has to do this offseason. I think they have to focus on 3 main things :

1- Get a top 6 forward to improve the offense.
2- Get one or two players to get bigger and tougher on the bottom 6.
3- Keep a decent D group.

They still have a few days to try to achieve all the above. Until then I'll try to keep my calm and be positive.

As for Habsterix blog, I tend to agree with everything he's saying. You can try to see everything positive but in the end, to improve, you have to focus on what you did wrong and learn from it.

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Old
06-28-2011, 07:55 AM
  #50
Ozymandias
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Koseegin View Post
I'm just boggled by the fact that you think that a 2nd for Moore, a second for Wisniewski and Maxwell and a 4th for Sopel and Dawes are bad trades when you come on HF willing to trade the 17th overall pick and a chance to select Beaulieu for a top 9 forward in Troy Brouwer or a 1st and Tinordi for Penner(you were also willing to trade a 1st and Kostitsyn for Penner, which would have not only been a lateral move, but would have also been a loss considering we'd lose that first for a very inconsistent player).

I find this pretty funny.

Wow, those trades would've been bad.

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