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Laich signs 6 year, $27M deal ($4.5M cap hit)

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Old
06-28-2011, 05:40 PM
  #276
EroCaps
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
It's not that the Caps are struggling for cap space, just that those dollars could be spent elsewhere. Saving money by filling Laich's roles with cheaper players allows more money to be spent on defense. If the Caps can save $1.5M by swapping Laich and Hendricks for Brouwer and Talbot-clone and then use that extra money to bring back Hannan, I'm all for it.

Again, I'm not sure anyone is saying that Laich hasn't been productive in his spot. I just think the overall team needs would have been better served by spending that $4.5M elsewhere.
Yeah, they need more balance and character and the space to add it. That's why you trade the guy making 7m who is bad in the room and keep the guy who does all the right things at 4.5.

You're trying to save cash in the wrong places and it's counterproductive.

I agree on Hannan and believe they'll bring him back.

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06-28-2011, 05:40 PM
  #277
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Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
Semin's a fantastic passer, along with his more obvious attributes, who draws defensive coverage. Laich has to be in the right place, but Semin creates the type of plays where garbage goals happen. Hard shots with rebounds and defensemen cleared out. Everyone always said Crosby's game was the type to make those around him better and Ovy's was selfish, but Ovy has made chumps look like all-stars and meanwhile all anyone ever talks about are how Crosby would score 10000 points if anyone he played with could ever put one in.
Yes Semin shoots wildly from any angle possible...sometimes those shots create whiffs, sometimes rebounds....many times they create breaks the other way when the shot misses the net and goes around the boards and out of the zone. Yes...you know I'm right...

I think Laich can complement any offensive player. Semin is by no means carrying his production.

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06-28-2011, 05:43 PM
  #278
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Originally Posted by EroCaps View Post
What's your point?

I'll take Backstrom at his best over an individual Sedin on the Caps. They took those deals because they're ****ing twin brothers who wanted to stay together and the Canucks found themselves a unique situation. Kesler makes more than Laich but the Canucks got him on a good deal. That's one legit steal.

Bieksa and Pitkanen are overpaid.
Point being, the Caps(err GMGM) hasn't been able to get the possible deals moving forward. However, I doubt it hampers us moving forward or puts us in a salary pinch. I guess its the whole 'stay the course' philosophy, he'd do anything to retain the assets he's developed and believes in, even if its not necessarily for the best value.

To add, I've said it before Laich re-signed. People were clamoring that he take a 'home-town' discount, but why should he when no one else has? And that seems to be the case for the negotiations, with his agent even saying that he didn't take a home-town discount.

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06-28-2011, 05:49 PM
  #279
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I think that all players are replaceable. Pitt had a decent run less their two stars.

It may take a coach that is willing to tweak a team to its strengths. Laich would have been replaceable. If he misses a few games, we will see for ourselves. If the player isnt replaced, players on the existing roster simply eat up Laich's TOI. Its not complicated. Someone else has to try to step up. A Boyd Gordon picks up an extra 2 on the PK. Hendricks gets an extra minute. Knuble and Fehr eat up his PP time.

The bigger problem I have is the expectation that the culture in the room will change, and that he will finally succeed as a 2C. What are the odds of those happening this year? I would say probably closer to neither happen, unless George gets a LW that compliments the line, and Bruce get banned. At a 6.5 cap hit.

Fat Cat Disease FCD seems prevalent around the league. I dont like 6 year deals that have no incentives.

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06-28-2011, 05:59 PM
  #280
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
It's not that the Caps are struggling for cap space, just that those dollars could be spent elsewhere. Saving money by filling Laich's roles with cheaper players allows more money to be spent on defense. If the Caps can save $1.5M by swapping Laich and Hendricks for Brouwer and Talbot-clone and then use that extra money to bring back Hannan, I'm all for it.

Again, I'm not sure anyone is saying that Laich hasn't been productive in his spot. I just think the overall team needs would have been better served by spending that $4.5M elsewhere.
The team needs can be filled just fine with Laich at $4.5M. That's why this whole situation is mystifying to me. Dump a couple of guys that contribute a hell of a lot less than Laich (Schultz and Fehr/Chimera) and there's your $4.5M.

Before extending Brouwer and Alzner (which, I'm guessing would cost $5 million), the roster would look like this:

FORWARDS
Alexander Ovechkin ($9.538m) / Nicklas Backstrom ($6.700m) / Alexander Semin ($6.700m)
Brooks Laich ($4.500m) / Marcus Johansson ($0.900m) / Mike Knuble ($2.000m)
Jason Chimera ($1.875m) / Jay Beagle ($0.512m) / Matt Hendricks ($0.825m)
D.J. King ($0.637m)

DEFENSEMEN
Mike Green ($5.250m) / Dennis Wideman ($3.937m)
Tom Poti ($2.875m) / John Carlson ($0.845m)
John Erskine ($1.500m)

GOALTENDERS
Michal Neuvirth ($1.150m) / Braden Holtby ($0.637m)

CAPGEEK.COM TOTALS (follow @capgeek on Twitter)
(these totals are compiled without the bonus cushion)
SALARY CAP: $64,300,000; CAP PAYROLL: $50,384,572; BONUSES: $80,000
CAP SPACE (17-man roster): $13,915,428

That's plenty of cap room to fill a few needs.

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06-28-2011, 05:59 PM
  #281
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Does anyone seriously think there is any chance of Laich over-producing and proving his contract is a steal? Compare that with the possibility that over 6 years he will under-produce and by the end of the contract be considered an albatross of sorts. That should tell you what you honestly think of this contract.

Will it happen? Hopefully and probably not. But there's a legitimate risk of it and virtually none of him being a steal.

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06-28-2011, 06:03 PM
  #282
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Originally Posted by NobodyBeatsTheWiz View Post
What's you're definition of replaceable? If his role has to be filled by multiple players, he's not really replaceable.
I'm no president. It means what it means.

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06-28-2011, 06:07 PM
  #283
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Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
Does anyone seriously think there is any chance of Laich over-producing and proving his contract is a steal? Compare that with the possibility that over 6 years he will under-produce and by the end of the contract be considered an albatross of sorts. That should tell you what you honestly think of this contract.

Will it happen? Hopefully and probably not. But there's a legitimate risk of it and virtually none of him being a steal.
sure. do you think 60 goals combined for the next three seasons is reasonable for laich? i would suggest that market for a player with 4 or 5 20 goal seasons out of 6 or 7 seasons will be nicely above $5m per 4 years out.

so...yea. like i said. inflation in the cap inflates salaries. the current cap allows tampa bay to offer stamkos $12m + in salary cap.

it certainly could go the other way, though

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06-28-2011, 06:09 PM
  #284
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Originally Posted by Stewie G View Post
The problem with this line of thinking is that it is dependent on the cap to keep rising in order for it to even be a decent contract. If the cap stays the same or grows much slower, this contract starts to be a bigger anchor when guys like Carlson, MoJo, and the goalies start needing new deals down the road.
Truth is I wanted him gone if we were paying ay more then 3.5. He is a fringe top six player. And I felt all along that someone was going to over pay for his ability to play C. He cannot cary a line to play 2C. And does not fit the role and is way over paid for a 3C. His best year were inflated numbers. And now like Schultz we are stuck with a contract based off of them. I fear the same is coming for Green.

Can we please get anyone that will be pissed off when we loose. And not just always say the right thing. And be the nice guy.

The team needs a real culture change. And this is five years of the same thing we already have.

What about his 16G and 48 points says we need this guy so much we have to over pay to keep him?

A lot of what he so called brings to the table is way over rated. Seeing that he spends his time around a bunch of soft players that show little emotion or heart on the ice.

I was trying to be a 100% positive for a change. But I could not hold this in anymore.

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06-28-2011, 06:12 PM
  #285
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
He's does however have a LOT of prolonged success at wing and can go back there worst case. Semin doesn't make Laich hustle every shift. He doesn't remote control Brooks to head to the crease for every dirty goal he pots. Semin does a lot of great things, but making his linemates a whole lot better isn't exactly his strong suit.
Brooks collects pucks, maintains the cycle, and make's sure the puck is back on semin's stick to do something with it.

He then goes to the net and picks up scraps. Those two have games that mesh very, very well.

Going back two years ago the difference between "glorified 4th line" and a suitable secondary scoring one was Semin. Laich-BMo-Knubes was atrocious... Laich-BMo-Semin was a heck of a lot better.

Now we agree that Brooks goes back to 2LW if all works poorly. So what does that mean for the rest of the team? Who's 2C? Can Semin be maintained to keep them effective? Can we win a cup being weak down the middle while spending like drunken sailors on the wings?

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06-28-2011, 06:16 PM
  #286
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I really don't get the whole "strong down the middle" quote from GMGM unless MoJo is getting shipped out with a Semin or a Green for a big time 2C. There isn't a scenario where Laich is playing center that involves this team being strong down the middle with MoJo.

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06-28-2011, 06:16 PM
  #287
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Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
Yes Semin shoots wildly from any angle possible...sometimes those shots create whiffs, sometimes rebounds....many times they create breaks the other way when the shot misses the net and goes around the boards and out of the zone. Yes...you know I'm right...

I think Laich can complement any offensive player. Semin is by no means carrying his production.
You hit the nail on the head of some of your fellow posters concerns. Is he a complimentary player or the integral lead?

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06-28-2011, 06:17 PM
  #288
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Originally Posted by mrwarden View Post
I really don't get the whole "strong down the middle" quote from GMGM unless MoJo is getting shipped out with a Semin or a Green for a big time 2C. There isn't a scenario where Laich is playing center that involves this team being strong down the middle with MoJo.
You seemed to have lost faith in GMGM

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06-28-2011, 06:18 PM
  #289
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I keep seeing quotes about Laich's negotitations needing to resolve a few issues for him to sign, to wit: “This year I think there’s got to be a lot more accountability amongst our players to each other and to the coaches,” he said, his voice striking a more serious tone. “It’s up to every single player  it doesn’t matter how much you make or how long you’ve been here or what your name is  to practice as hard as they can, to practice as a team, to work as a team.” http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...h-6-year-deal/

Is it just absurd that Laich has to make demands about something as fundamental as this or should we put the 'ol positive spin on this and hope the team does in fact have greater accountability in the locker room this season? I guess we can always hope and it seems that is one of the reasons Brouwer was brought in.

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06-28-2011, 06:18 PM
  #290
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Originally Posted by txpd View Post
sure. do you think 60 goals combined for the next three seasons is reasonable for laich? i would suggest that market for a player with 4 or 5 20 goal seasons out of 6 or 7 seasons will be nicely above $5m per 4 years out.

so...yea. like i said. inflation in the cap inflates salaries. the current cap allows tampa bay to offer stamkos $12m + in salary cap.
it certainly could go the other way, though
Yet there's not a chance in hell of that happening any time soon. Even from a free spending team trying to pry him as a RFA.

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06-28-2011, 06:19 PM
  #291
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Did we overpay for Laich? Perhaps, but its not as if we could get him for 3. So yeah, maybe we missed out on saving .75, assuming he never planned on leaving (and I believe him).

What are you getting with Laich? He tries hard, can play on special teams (both) and he works the boards well. The X Factor is whatever else GMGM decides to do during the off-season. You can probably rule out picking up Richards, but that's okay with me. Lets say for a second that Laich returns to center. Down the middle you have Backstrom, MoJo, Laich, Sjogren, Eakin, and maybe Gordo or Hendricks or Beagle. Laich also gives you the option to play him at LW.

Let's see what happens with Semin and where they put Brouwer before we get all crazy in this teepee.

I wouldn't mind seeing:
OV-Backstrom (circa 2008, not 2010)-Knuble
Laich-MoJo-Semin Trade Acquisition
Chimera-Sjogren-Brouwer (an actual checking line, methinks)
Some combo of Beagle, Gordo, Hendricks, Bradley,etc on the fourth line.

With a Semin trade, and a second or first line RW coming back, we could free up even more room for some D.
Varly out, Semin out, Shultz out, Poti out, maybe Fehr out. Doesn't seem to be getting a lot of love out of the lockerroom these days. Also I suppose Arnott is out and so is Sturm. Ah well.

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06-28-2011, 06:20 PM
  #292
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FWIW, Laich was a big part of our PK and PP both when they did well, and when they sucked. He has been a big part of our... playoff medioc.... failures. Part of my not liking this deal is rooted in wanting a shakeup. Its not even July 1st yet and I need to be patient. Sign. Since listening to games on the radio in 1977 instead of doing bullshiat homework, I have been plenty patient. We all have.

We can live with Laich for a few years at 4.5. But 6 just seems over the top expecting him to change positions on top of it all. All our searches for C's have included him not seizing the wide open 2C spot.

I may like him at C. As a captain. I think we need a vocal player that communicates well, to help Bruce out. Ovi is totally an on ice C. We need an off ice one too.

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06-28-2011, 06:21 PM
  #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CapitalsCup2012 View Post
Yes Semin shoots wildly from any angle possible...sometimes those shots create whiffs, sometimes rebounds....many times they create breaks the other way when the shot misses the net and goes around the boards and out of the zone. Yes...you know I'm right...

I think Laich can complement any offensive player. Semin is by no means carrying his production.
Forgot to add this to my other post.

Agreed whole heartedly. Its the most frustrating part of his game. F the penalties... laziness... etc. When you miss the net or whiff, the whole team is caught out of position and you either loose the momentum or give a strong scoring chance the other way.

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06-28-2011, 06:26 PM
  #294
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reading this thread from start to finish was Amazing.

the caps retained a good, versitile, hard-working player who's been in the system for seven years for market-ish value before he hit a somewhat threadbare UFA market. laich has comparables but none of them are UFAs this off-season. he would have left a hole in the lineup that you could drive a truck through. obviously that's not as important as squabbling over whether his contract an overpayment by 0.8% of the cap.

Amazing.

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06-28-2011, 06:28 PM
  #295
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Semin might cause opportunities for the other team, but we're not debating Semin, or even Laich's defense. We're debating Laich's offense, for which bringing up Semin's problems are irrelevant.

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06-28-2011, 06:30 PM
  #296
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Originally Posted by PuckBuddy View Post
reading this thread from start to finish was Amazing.

the caps retained a good, versitile, hard-working player who's been in the system for seven years for market-ish value before he hit a somewhat threadbare UFA market. laich has comparables but none of them are UFAs this off-season. he would have left a hole in the lineup that you could drive a truck through. obviously that's not as important as squabbling over whether his contract an overpayment by 0.8% of the cap.

Amazing.
And Bruce's discipline problems (or whatever you want to think he sucks at) only factor into .8% of the team's on ice performance in the playoffs. Amirite?

This isn't only a game of inches on the ice. And we die for that inch...blah blah blah

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06-28-2011, 06:32 PM
  #297
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Originally Posted by HSHS View Post
Forgot to add this to my other post.

Agreed whole heartedly. Its the most frustrating part of his game. F the penalties... laziness... etc. When you miss the net or whiff, the whole team is caught out of position and you either loose the momentum or give a strong scoring chance the other way.
Someone tell that to Ovechkin. I swear after last year that he can't hit the net from outside the circles.

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06-28-2011, 06:37 PM
  #298
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Steckel, Poti, Erskine, Schultz all got resigned before they needed to be at or above market value in the last couple years. Now add Brooks to the list.
Not just them: the way AO, Semin and Backstom play these days, they're hardly worth what they're being paid.

I agree with you about being able to find grinders (and that's what Brooks really is) fairly easily. The truth is, he's a slightly better Drew Miller.

4.5 mill a year (I heard 6 will be next year's cap hit) over 6 years is crazy.

Forget the money... nobody signs a grinder to a 6 year deal.

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06-28-2011, 06:38 PM
  #299
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And Bruce's discipline problems (or whatever you want to think he sucks at) only factor into .8% of the team's on ice performance in the playoffs. Amirite?

This isn't only a game of inches on the ice. And we die for that inch...blah blah blah
do you think that brooks laich should have been allowed to go to this summer's free agency over $500k/year?

yes or no?

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06-28-2011, 06:40 PM
  #300
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Not just them: the way AO, Semin and Backstom play these days, they're hardly worth what they're being paid.

I agree with you about being able to find grinders (and that's what Brooks really is) fairly easily. The truth is, he's a slightly better Drew Miller.

4.5 mill a year (I heard 6 will be next year's cap hit) over 6 years is crazy.

Forget the money... nobody signs a grinder to a 6 year deal.


That just made my day.

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