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Hamrlik has refused 1 yr offer. (post #363)

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Old
06-28-2011, 07:20 PM
  #26
HankyZetts
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Originally Posted by SouthernHab View Post
From the last thread that was closed......

Posted by Twisted.......

So what you're saying is that every team, except for Boston, should let all of there UFAs walk because, in essence, they've all failed? Furthermore, a rational human being can extrapolate that now all UFAs except for Tomas Kaberle, Shane Hnidy and Michael Ryder have been rendered obsolete considering they are all failures.

We'd better hurry and call the KHL then!



P.S. Do you see how ridiculous that logic is?





Hockey is not a zero sum game. There is no "if you lose then you get rid of all of your UFA".

But there is a concept called improving your roster to have a better shot at winning the one and only Cup.

Gill, Spacek and Hamrlik were all GREAT players at one time. But like everything in life, they have gotten older. Hockey is a fast game. There are only a handful of players in the NHL who have been genetically gifted to continue to excel in their late 30's early 40's. Gill, Spacek and Hamrlik are not included in that group.

Time for them to go or again face disappointment during the playoffs (if we indeed reach them). The cry from the crowd was that the Canadiens needed faster and stronger DMen.

Now we are reduced to trying to rationalize why Hamrlik should possibly be on the roster.

A lot of Canadiens fans have simply grown accustomed to accepting mediocrity. And PG is leading the charge!!!!
Both Hamrlik and Gill performed admirably last year in the playoffs. In case you forgot, we were known for our defense. Our forwards not being able to grind and get to the net is what made the difference.

I still feel Spacek has some gas in the tank. Injuries really screwed him last year, but I wouldn't mind moving him and allocating his money to a 2-way forward (Upshall for example).

I don't need to rationalize anything, Hamrlik is a solid vet that is most definitely welcome on my team for at least another year. Wisniewski is a good D-man but it's like people don't remember how many boneheaded mistakes he made in his own zone hanging Hammer out to dry. Instead, they blame it on Hammer. Ridiculous!

And enough with the "accepting mediocrity" crap! Such BS!

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06-28-2011, 07:21 PM
  #27
Darz
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
It was quite apparent that Hamrlik was not near as effective as his numbers showed. It is also worth noting that defence scoring totals were for some reason greatly inflated last season. Hamrlik should not be in consideration for this team, and if he is on this team we will be icing virtually the same as last year's expected defence except swapping Spacek for Emelin. Tell me, how is that a recipe for improvement? Anybody who wants Hamrlik to stay believes that last year's team was good enough to win the stanley cup, which is patently untrue. The goal should be to get better, not stay the same. It is well known that in sports if you didn't get better, you got worse.
Well if your were to add a healthy Markov, Gorges and Pacorietty to the playoff team last year, we might of beaten Boston, and.....

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06-28-2011, 07:21 PM
  #28
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
we can only hope that tomorrow's decision is that both sides have mutually agreed to move on. I appreciate Hammer's work over the last 4 seasons, but if we bring him back we will have a worse defence than last season, which means we have eliminated ourselves as serious cup contenders right off the bat.
How would it be worst considering that you'll pretty much have the same defense while swapping Wiz for Markov and having Subban and Weber more experienced plus a young hard nosed Russian inserted in the rotation...

Is losing Sopel, Picard and Mara that bad?

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06-28-2011, 07:30 PM
  #29
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Originally Posted by DJ Breadman View Post
you are bang on, if he signs either Weber or Emilien's development will be hampered because we all know JM will play Vet's over young players, there's no way Spacek or Hammer will be sitting in the press box
Habs used 12 defensemen last season. That's twice what's needed for a single game. Every year it's the same old song, and Habs end-up using close to 30 players on the roster by the end of the season, and young players get used plenty. But before the season starts, when the Habs sign veterans to fill in the void and make sure we have depth, the same people come around with that same old song and just don't understand the need for this depth.

Also, Weber can play wing, and was good there too.

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06-28-2011, 07:32 PM
  #30
Fish on The Sand
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Originally Posted by flapshots View Post
How would it be worst considering that you'll pretty much have the same defense while swapping Wiz for Markov and having Subban and Weber more experienced plus a young hard nosed Russian inserted in the rotation...

Is losing Sopel, Picard and Mara that bad?
Weber is basically a spare part, he virtually has no impact. It is unlikely that Subban can be much better than last year, and Markov will not outperform Wiz by enough to make up for his departure. Plus, we have a total of 0 dmen who can be counted on to be the trigger man on the pp, which means we can pencil ourselves in for a bottom 5 pp. Our pk should be good, but it was already among the best in the NHL, so we gain nothing. By adding Hamrlik we basically have to hope that our forwards to decide to contribute about 40 more 5 on 5 goals this season, actually, probably more like 60 when you factor in that our powerplay will be terrible. You seem to thinklast year's defence was top 5 in the NHL (which you basically have to be to win the cup). It was not, and no top 5 defence in the NHL will have Hamrlik in the top 4. Its just not possible. Since we already have our bottom pairing set, we are looking for a top 4 dman. Hammer is NOT a top 4 dman on a contending team. Not anymore. If we sign Hammer it doesn't matter what else we do this off-season, it won't matter, because we will have surrendered any real chance of success by running with just 2 legit top 4 dmen. If we can't sign Wiz, then we have to after Ehrhoff or Kaberle hard, if we miss them, then we have to work on a trade, but I would rather miss entirely on the legit top 4 dmen and be forced to send out Weber every game than simply think that last year's team is due for a cup by adding an older Hamrlik.


Last edited by Fish on The Sand: 06-28-2011 at 07:38 PM.
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Old
06-28-2011, 07:35 PM
  #31
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...our defence frightens me for next season. It could be quite awful.

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06-28-2011, 07:40 PM
  #32
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Originally Posted by Habs View Post
...our defence frightens me for next season. It could be quite awful.
awfull?

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06-28-2011, 07:42 PM
  #33
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Originally Posted by znk View Post
awfull?
If our top 6 is Markov, Subban, Emelin, Hamrlik, Gorges, Gill we only have 2 legit top 4 dmen in Markov and Subban, and Markov is obviously a huge question mark health wise. Think about that for a moment, and let it sink in. That would be Subban, an aging Hamrlik, a rookie, and 2 pk specialists plus presumably Weber, who is awful.

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06-28-2011, 07:44 PM
  #34
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hope they don't resign Hammmer at 5 mil

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06-28-2011, 07:45 PM
  #35
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I'd welcome Hamrlik back gladly if it means we have found a destination for Jaroslav Spacek. That guy is awful.

Best case scenario: Spacek fly away to Florida or somewhere else and we get a 6th round pick in return. Hamrlik sign a one-year deal at 3M$ or less and we ride this defence next year:

Hamrlik - Markov
Gill - Subban
Emelin - Gorges
Weber

Not awesome but good enough to be in the top tier of the league (if Markov health hold up).

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Old
06-28-2011, 07:47 PM
  #36
HomaridII
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People are talking about Wiz as if he is this amazingly consistent elite offensive D-man ..

The guy has ONE good offensive season, on a contract year.

The guy has ONE season where has has played more than 70 games, on a contract year, before that his GP are 50-68-48-69.

The guy has two seasons of more than 3 goals .. yes that is not a typo .. one of them on a contract year and the other a lot earlier in his career.

etc..

Sign Wiz to a large contract at your own risk.

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06-28-2011, 07:48 PM
  #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
I'd welcome Hamrlik back gladly if it means we have found a destination for Jaroslav Spacek. That guy is awful.

Best case scenario: Spacek fly away to Florida or somewhere else and we get a 6th round pick in return. Hamrlik sign a one-year deal at 3M$ or less and we ride this defence next year:

Hamrlik - Markov
Gill - Subban
Emelin - Gorges
Weber

Not awesome but good enough to be in the top tier of the league (if Markov health hold up).
You need to have a top tier defence or you are not winning the cup. You need to realistically have at least 3 legit top 4 dmen on the team to win, preferably 4.

Right now we have 2. That's not enough, plain and simple. If we keep Wiz, that gives us 3, and a wildcard in Emelin. At minimum it would give us a top 10 defence in this league, bordering on top 5. That alone would make us contenders, as long as Markov is healthy enough of course, which is a huge question mark on its own.

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Old
06-28-2011, 07:49 PM
  #38
We Want The 25
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please say no Hamrlik go to florida or something

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Old
06-28-2011, 07:51 PM
  #39
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I don't think there are any realistic options available in free agency (you can't bank on signing an Erhoff or Heda), so Hammer might be the best option to solidify the D. I like going into the season with a deep defense - hopefully we'll actually be in a position to trade a D for a draft pick midseason if Weber and Emelin pan out. Would be a nice change from giving up picks to plug holes.

The habs rarely pencil in rookies to the starting lineup - even last year with Subban, the habs had 6 NHL defensemen at camp and he had to earn his spot. The same will be true for Emelin/Weber and we can hope they will steal Hamrlik/Spacek's spot.

I think a lot of people are disappointed because they thought this would be the year the defense gets revamped since a number of contracts expire and cap space is free, but again, you can't bank on UFA! I think next offseason there will be some more changes since Gill, Spacek, and Hammer if he signs will expire and we'll have a much better idea of what Emelin, Weber and Diaz can do (not to mention another year of development for Tinordi, Nash, Carle, etc.)

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06-28-2011, 07:52 PM
  #40
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Sad day for habsnation ......if true












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Old
06-28-2011, 07:52 PM
  #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
People are talking about Wiz as if he is this amazingly consistent elite offensive D-man ..

The guy has ONE good offensive season, on a contract year.

The guy has ONE season where has has played more than 70 games, on a contract year, before that his GP are 50-68-48-69.

The guy has two seasons of more than 3 goals .. yes that is not a typo .. one of them on a contract year and the other a lot earlier in his career.

etc..

Sign Wiz to a large contract at your own risk.

Want to bet over the next 5 years, he'll have more points than Markov?

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06-28-2011, 07:53 PM
  #42
Fish on The Sand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HomaridII View Post
People are talking about Wiz as if he is this amazingly consistent elite offensive D-man ..

The guy has ONE good offensive season, on a contract year.

The guy has ONE season where has has played more than 70 games, on a contract year, before that his GP are 50-68-48-69.

The guy has two seasons of more than 3 goals .. yes that is not a typo .. one of them on a contract year and the other a lot earlier in his career.

etc..

Sign Wiz to a large contract at your own risk.
Even before this season he has consistently been around 30 points, or on a pace well above it, and has shown continuous improvement year to year. He obviously worked out well in our system, and is also obviously much better than Hamrlik.

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06-28-2011, 07:54 PM
  #43
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Originally Posted by Ceux de Montreal View Post
I'd welcome Hamrlik back gladly if it means we have found a destination for Jaroslav Spacek. That guy is awful.

Best case scenario: Spacek fly away to Florida or somewhere else and we get a 6th round pick in return. Hamrlik sign a one-year deal at 3M$ or less and we ride this defence next year:

Hamrlik - Markov
Gill - Subban
Emelin - Gorges
Weber

Not awesome but good enough to be in the top tier of the league (if Markov health hold up).
Hammer and Markov both play the left side - more likely to see

Markov - PK
Hammer- Yemelin
Gill - Gorges

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Old
06-28-2011, 07:54 PM
  #44
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I bet you that Hammer comes back (which I hope for less than $3M), ends up playing 20 min to fill in some injuries, 80 games, 30 pts, in the +s and people saying thank god he was there again.

Hammer was good last year and all is years with us, if you can't see that, than...

Depending on the $$$, I'm happy if he's back.

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06-28-2011, 08:01 PM
  #45
Bobby12345
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Originally Posted by Fish on The Sand View Post
Weber is basically a spare part, he virtually has no impact. It is unlikely that Subban can be much better than last year, and Markov will not outperform Wiz by enough to make up for his departure. Plus, we have a total of 0 dmen who can be counted on to be the trigger man on the pp, which means we can pencil ourselves in for a bottom 5 pp. Our pk should be good, but it was already among the best in the NHL, so we gain nothing. By adding Hamrlik we basically have to hope that our forwards to decide to contribute about 40 more 5 on 5 goals this season, actually, probably more like 60 when you factor in that our powerplay will be terrible. You seem to thinklast year's defence was top 5 in the NHL (which you basically have to be to win the cup). It was not, and no top 5 defence in the NHL will have Hamrlik in the top 4. Its just not possible. Since we already have our bottom pairing set, we are looking for a top 4 dman. Hammer is NOT a top 4 dman on a contending team. Not anymore. If we sign Hammer it doesn't matter what else we do this off-season, it won't matter, because we will have surrendered any real chance of success by running with just 2 legit top 4 dmen. If we can't sign Wiz, then we have to after Ehrhoff or Kaberle hard, if we miss them, then we have to work on a trade, but I would rather miss entirely on the legit top 4 dmen and be forced to send out Weber every game than simply think that last year's team is due for a cup by adding an older Hamrlik.
Markov should technically actually do more than Wis in terms of offensive performance and has proven he can do it more consistently in the past. May I remind you that before last season, Wis' best season was 30 points (4 shy of Hamrlik's point total last year)
Markov is also much better defensively than Wis.

Hamrlik is not looking to play on the top as those spots are for the Markov-Gorges and Gill-Subban pairs.
Having such a good shot blocking machine who can also give you 30 odd points not being overused as a top 2 defenseman makes him even more effective.

I also see no reason why Subban would all of a sudden stop progressing.
He made huge strides during his first season in the NHL and didn't seem to be stopping anytime soon.

Your evaluation of Weber is also off the mark.
The kid had 11 points in 41 games while having minimal ice time and barely no PP time.
Give him some more and he'll be good for another 30+ points per season and provide a strong shot on the PP.

I'm not a Habs fan but because I live in Montreal, I get to see a lot of Habs hockey and frankly, when I look at this D corps, I think it can be one of the good ones in the league especially when backed by Price.
It's well balanced between offensive, defensive, old and young players.

Markov-Gorges
Gill - Subban
Hamrlik - Weber/Yemelin
Spacek

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Old
06-28-2011, 08:04 PM
  #46
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Originally Posted by flapshots View Post
Markov should technically actually do more than Wis in terms of offensive performance and has proven he can do it more consistently in the past. May I remind you that before last season, Wis' best season was 30 points (4 shy of Hamrlik's point total last year)
Markov is also much better defensively than Wis.

Hamrlik is not looking to play on the top as those spots are for the Markov-Gorges and Gill-Subban pairs.
Having such a good shot blocking machine who can also give you 30 odd points not being overused as a top 2 defenseman makes him even more effective.

I also see no reason why Subban would all of a sudden stop progressing.
He made huge strides during his first season in the NHL and didn't seem to be stopping anytime soon.

Your evaluation of Weber is also off the mark.
The kid had 11 points in 41 games while having minimal ice time and barely no PP time.
Give him some more and he'll be good for another 30+ points per season and provide a strong shot on the PP.

I'm not a Habs fan but because I live in Montreal, I get to see a lot of Habs hockey and frankly, when I look at this D corps, I think it can be one of the good ones in the league especially when backed by Price.
It's well balanced between offensive, defensive, old and young players.

Markov-Gorges
Gill - Subban
Hamrlik - Weber/Yemelin
Spacek
I pretty much agree with everything you just said. Excellent post!

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Old
06-28-2011, 08:06 PM
  #47
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I wouldn't mind Hammr back but he's redundant if Spacek stays.

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06-28-2011, 08:07 PM
  #48
HankyZetts
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Originally Posted by Subban76 View Post
I bet you that Hammer comes back (which I hope for less than $3M), ends up playing 20 min to fill in some injuries, 80 games, 30 pts, in the +s and people saying thank god in was there again.

Hammer was good last year and all is years with us, if you can't see that, than...

Depending on the $$$, I'm happy if he's back.
I'm watching a Mtl-Min game on my pvr from last year, where Dawes, Palushaj, Pyatt, Mara and Picard are all in, and Hammer is such a pleasure to watch. I understand how a casual fan or someone who only pays attention to the flashy stuff doesn't get it but man, this guy is just so steady. For a big guy, he pivots so well and is so cool under pressure. Blocks shots like an animal, and has had to cover for Wiz getting his pants deked out a couple times, not to mention manning the point on the PP.

I don't understand the hate?? Imagine if he didn't have all these responsibilities?

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06-28-2011, 08:10 PM
  #49
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only if gauthier somehow unloads spacek's contract

hammer>>>>>>spacek

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06-28-2011, 08:16 PM
  #50
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If tomorrow we hear that Hamrlik is back at around 4M, what's not to love about the deal...


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